Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

[huntinsonovagun]

There are several Oklahoma forum members that are fed up with our states' doe harvest regulations. Several are planning on attending the states' public hearing to propose a new regulation, which would do away with "doe days," which allow hunters to harvest does only on certain specified days during the firearms season. Most hunters in Oklahoma would agree that our buck-to-doe ratio is way out of hand, but the state cares only about the money.

The way I see it is, several hunters want to get a doe for meat, but then they can only hunt certain days, and in order to hunt MORE days, they have to buy a buck tag. The guys hunting for meat end up shooting a young buck, which only reduces our buck population, and does nothing for our doe population.

Our doe tags cost the same as our buck tags ($20), but a hunter is allowed to harvest a buck any day out of the 16-day season. This averages out to $1.25 per day. A hunter is allowed to harvest a doe only on 5 specified days (in zones 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, & 9), which would mean hunters are paying $4 per day to hunt does. This only deters hunters from buying doe tags, and only makes our buck-to-doe ratio worse.

If you're only allowed to harvest one doe per season, why does it matter what day you harvest it on?

My brother bought a doe tag this season. He payed $20 for a license, $20 for a doe tag (which he thought was valid for 16 days) and then another "Fishing and Hunting Legacy Permit" (which, don't even get me started on that one ). I sadly informed my brother that he could only use the doe tag he bought on specified days, which so happened to be the weekends of regular gun season. My brother had to work both days of each weekend during gun season, and never got to go hunting. He said that is the last time he buys a hunting license. It's sad, but the state's department of wildlife is killing this sport. The angry residents of Oklahoma who buy the tags (and fund the Wildlife Department, that would be nothing without our dollars) are turning residents away from hunting, and no telling how many other residents just decided not to obey regulations since the Wildlife Department cares only about the money, not about the hunters, or even the wildlife. Let's face it, there is no "management" going on there, other than giving harvest limits.

Oklahoma hunters, please post your views, as I will try to bring up good points in a speech to propose at an upcoming hearing.

Here is more information, and also dates of upcoming hearings. Please attend...only YOU can make a difference.

(Can a mod post this at the top for me?)

[BowJoe]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

I may not be an Oklahoma resident but I feel for your situation. If nothing else, urge the people to look at other programs and implement only what works. If you take for example Illinois, which is where I live, we are allowed to harvest as many does as we have tags for. This being said, we still have a large difference in the buck to doe ratio. I can only imagine the effects it has had on Oklahoma with it's strict doe harvest. The benefits to this is that even with the high doe harvest limits, we have a record number of deer taken every year. The high harvest helps in many ways. For one it reduces the dependancy on the supermarket for all of your meat supplies which helps people save money that sometimes numbers in the hundreds of dollars each year. To a consumer that hunts, this is a big bonus. If your state implemented a program like Illinois' then they would make more money based on the fact that each doe tag costs $20. If you harvested 4 does and 1 buck/yr then that's a difference of $60 higher than the present program. Also, mention that if your state hopes to bring it's deer population into proper proportions then it has to reduce the number of does that have offspring every year and help keep the bucks in check. We had a season about 12 years ago when you couldn't take but one buck and 4 does. This program was put into effect for a few seasons just to get the natural order in some sort of perspective. It's paid off and now we are reaping the rewards by being one of the largest buck producing states in North America. Yet we still kill more does than bucks every year. Oklahoma needs to give it's buck population a breather and eat some meat from a doe for a few seasons. Maybe have a few seasons with no bucks at all or the earn a buck program where you have to kill at least 2 does for every buck and show proof at the counter before you can purchase that buck tag. Anything involving taking more does is in dire need in OK. Good luck and get after em.

[Gator]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

Yep, I have yet to understand the Hunting and Fishing Legacy permit, but thank god I got my lifetime, don't have to worry about a tag. Earn a buck, no thanks, but I wonder how many hunters out there just will not bust a doe. Fortunately I was able to tag a doe early on in bow season the last 2 years, but that may not always be the case. I am all for everyday being a doe day.

My wifes cousin had to pass on a doe because it wasn't a doe day, and this in an area that is full of does.

[bfletch7441]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

If you're going to speak in front of a comittee, be sure and mention a few things that they do well. Maybe property acquisition, having public property available, and public property management. Otherwise they will sweep you under the carpet as a whiner and forget you ever stepped foot into the building with an opinion.

I completely agree with you though. There was a thread started a few day's ago where several people vented their frustrations with the ODWC. Be sure and read through that one just in case they don't feel like retyping their comments.

Ben

[dogdoc]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

12. Deer Primitive Season

Lengthen the muzzleloader season by adding an additional seven days to the beginning of the season.

Would be against!

Deer Archery

Increase the bag limit for archers from four (4) deer to six (6) deer and make the January 1 to January 15 archery season either sex.

All for!

Deer - general provisions

Reduce the number of antlered deer that a hunter may harvest annually from three (3) to two (2).

Strongly for!

[huntinsonovagun]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

Sounds like the majority of us Okies agree and disagree on the same regulations!! (All except for Kyle...forgive him though, he's young and likes to party at college )

[MCH]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

I'm against the extension of muzzleloading and the reduction of the number of antlered deer to be harvested.

I'm also against the use of electronic calls for turkey hunting.

The majority of everything else, I'm for.

I am lost as to why they would want to extend muzzleloading and at the same time reduce the number of bucks harvested.. Kind of defeats the purpose, if you ask me.

I say either leave them both the way they are, or do one and not the other. Without the ML extension, I would probably be for the reduction.

I can't quote numbers but I'd betcha that the number of bucks harvested with the help of the extra 7 days of ML would be real close to the numbers of hunters that actually tag 3 bucks a year.

[dogdoc]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

[ QUOTE ]

I'm also against the use of electronic calls for turkey hunting.

[/ QUOTE ]

i missed that one--that's got to be a joke If they're going to allow it for turkey then it's only fair for duck/goose hunters also! I sure hope that one fails.

[huntinsonovagun]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

I'm in favor of antler restrictions, but I don't think the ODW is going to like that one. I'll try to mention something about restrictions though...you never know. I kinda doubt any of these regulations will happen next year, but they may generate enough public interest and get something going for 2007. Who knows?

[okbowman]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

I agree. I am from Oklahoma also. I hunted quite a bit this year and only saw 1 buck(during bow season). Fortunately they opened the full Muzzleloader season to doe hunting, I killed a doe on a day I wouldn't have been able to last year. I never saw a buck during gun season. I did see a bunch of does, just not on a doe day! Fortunately also I have a lifetime license and don't have to buy my tags. But I used to and I know how it feels to buy a tag and only have 3 or 4 days to use it. I wish I could go to this meeting.

[Gator]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

Here is something interesting I read in Sunday's paper as far as proposed changes for next year. The one that stuck out was that they are proposing making the bow days of 1 Jan through 15 Jan either sex.........Now why in the world would they do that, yet lower the aggregate buck limit???? I am so confused.......

[MCH]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

As far as that goes, why extend ML too?? If the goal is to harvest less antlered deer, why increase the opportunities??

[Guest C5Archery]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

Hello all,

My name is Jeremy Catcher and I joined this forum to respond to this thread. I own over 2,000 acres in Adair county. Due to the "liberal" doe harvest that we now enjoy, my deer population has been decimated. This year we harvested 4 deer on my property. One buck! One Buck! I hunted two other properties to harvest my deer. My property used to know has a deer haven just 10 years ago. We agressively plant food plots and develop our timber. The problem is that our sport is now so commercialized that ever Tom, Dick and Harry is a deer hunter. The total number of hunters in my are has quadrupled. We have more problems with poaching and tresspassing. I hate people who have a lack of repect for others property. The state has basically sold its soul to satan for the mighty dollar. The liberal doe harvest opened up in 1999 in my area. That is what we have considered the begin of the end for us. Our total number of sightings has fallen by 67%. Our harvest rates are down 128%, and mature buck sightings have fallen by the wayside. I do not believe that this is an isolated event due to my collaborating with other landowners in the area. The deer are gone. Finding a rub or scrape in the woods calls for a ritualistic ceremony to take place to ensure its divinity.

Now, the state continues to increase opportunity for hunters by increasing the days. The selling point is the growing herd in Oklahoma. Maybe others can attest to the increasing numbers, but I cannot. You are esentially killing between 4-6 deer each time you kill a doe. Assuming that as a total offspring survival rate over her lifetime. There are plenty of hunters in the state to not have to harvest 4 does per. I agree that there are meat hunters out there. The only problem is it takes 4 does to even provide enough meat to begin to feed a family. So the whole meat hunting thing becomes irrelevent to me. Every hunter wants to harvest a buck. That is why more bucks are killed every year than does. Period. The population eradication comes from a person who would kill a 6 point each year now still killing his 6 point, but taking three does as well. I think that the department jumped the gun on opening the doe harvest, rather than phasing the harvest totals in. For our estimated population, which i assume is grossly overstated, we should not be having annual harvest numbers of greater than 100,000. That is esentially 25% of our herd each year. (by the departments estimates and if you have ever been on a deer count with the department you would have the same opinion that i have about thier counting standards)

So where does that lead us? To a 16 day muzzeloader season? Which is essentially a 32 day modern firearms season. WOW! Out of 97 days in which you can legally hunt deer in this state you will be able to virtually carry a rifle for 32 of them. The wildlife departments focus should be on the future and the integrity of the deer herd, not trying to lure out of state money. Oklahoma will never be a Texas, or Kansas, or Ohio, or Illinois. How many hunting videos or shows include hunts in Oklahoma? Very few. Why is that? It is becasue of the integrity of our herd. How many boone and crocket bucks are killed in this state each year? The state just doesn't seem to have a direction, or a goal that it communicates very well. We have an opportunistic approach that is leading to too many deer falling each year.

My plan:

Total harvest limit (4) deer.

Total buck limit (1) buck.

If the goal is to get the herd in balance, this approach only makes sense. Start protecting the bucks. MANAGE THE DOE HARVEST BY AREA. Adair county can't withstand too many more years of liberal doe harvest, due to the excessive number of deer hunters and poaching that occurs in our area. Oh by the way don't look at the numbers that the ODWC publishes and believe that they are the real deal. 40% of the deer killed in our county never see the check station because of the way the stations are run. Manage the herd, and start managing the hunter. If we want to be a state that attracts hunters, we must first create a product that the hunters will buy. Educate hunters on the benefits of a letting young bucks walk. "Change hunters in the know take a doe", to " What will the guys think if i kill another forky?" Pressure the hunters to see things for the future.

Don't get me wrong I think it is important to harvest does, but there has to be a plan. We have spent 5 years now hammering away at the does and what have we to show for it?

I will be at the Jan 10th meeting in Tulsa. I hope to see you there.

[Guest C5Archery]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/2004whitetailarticles.htm

Interesting read!!!! Seems someone is not listening

[okbowman]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

Hi C5Archery,

Welcome to the forum! I just wanted to reply to your post. I hunt in Pottawatomie county. A few years ago I ran into a guy from Adair county and he bragged about killing 21 deer in one season, obviously a poacher. So, I contacted the game ranger in your county and gave him the fellows name, I never heard wether anything was done or not.

Besides poaching, predators have a severe impact on deer herds. Have you done anything to bring down the coyote population? In my area this year(I hunt 200 acres) I saw only 2 fawns all seasons!! Thats terrible! But I also saw 6 coyotes while deer hunting....HMMMMMM? Do I think this is a coincidence, no! Coyotes can tear up a fawn crop! And they do on a regular basis!

I am not opposed to your ideas for harvest, maybe they should give per property doe tags. But I don't think that a longer gun(muzzleloader and rifle season) is going to hurt anything. I grew up in Texas and there we had about 60 gun days per year(out of 90 total) and a liberal doe harvest and it never hurt the herd.

I would hit the predators hard as well as make foodplots a year round thing and I think you will see your herd rebound.

P.S.

It has also been a terribly dry year and that has an impact too!

I wish I could come to the meetings, but my schedule prevents it.

[Guest C5Archery]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

Okbowman,

I hear you about the 21 deer salute. It is a major problem in these parts. We actually do run our food plots year round. Around here though word gets out that you do all the work and you are knee deep in poachers thinking they can hunt your plots when you are not there. Just yesterday I ran a hunter out of one of my towers who was rifle hunting. He said that he was hunting for coyotes.

We do have a substantial coyote population, but we do our best to thin them out each year. Our fawn crop was strong this year. The majority of does that were seen had fawns with them, so i feel a little better.

I disagree with your point of the longer season. I feel that opening up the muzzeloader will put more pressure in the woods and begin to effect the hunting in more ways than just the total population. The increased pressure will realy result in a more difficult time for bow hunting those early days of November.

The problem with comparing Oklahoma with a Texas or Kansas is the education level of the hunters. I have hunted in both states and feel that the deer hunters in those states (in general) are more educated and more mature. They understand the dynamics of the herd and preserve the integrity better than "most" oklahoma hunters.

[MCH]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

[ QUOTE ]

The problem with comparing Oklahoma with a Texas or Kansas is the education level of the hunters. I have hunted in both states and feel that the deer hunters in those states (in general) are more educated and more mature. They understand the dynamics of the herd and preserve the integrity better than "most" oklahoma hunters.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with most of what your saying, C5, but that last statement, to me, is too much of a generalization. I think that you just have too much experience with Oklahoma hunters. If you were to live in Texas or Kansas I believe your statement would reverse.

Don't get me wrong. We have more than our fair share of unethical hunters in Oklahoma. In fact, around here, its more of a way of life for most hunters. But I'm down here sandwiched between Arkansas and Texas and can say that the numbers of poachers in each state are pretty much equal. Like you, I have had more experiences with the Okies but it would be naive to think that our state corners the market on them.

Luckily, I have had the priviledge of meeting several local hunters that share the same ethics and beliefs on hunting as I. If you'll stick around the forum, maybe you can meet some of them. We have a deer camp and a 3-D shoot each year. Great bunch of guys....ethical hunters.

As for your views on the regulations, I couldn't agree more. All the extra week of muzzleloader will do, is allow poachers to harvest more deer. More bucks will be killed and that will negate any increase from lowering the buck limit.

I will be at the Idabel, Ok meeting on the 10th. Hopefully, when the new release comes out it will be similar to the link you have given. Southeast Oklahomans voice their opinions in opposition of the ML extension. But my money?? It's on the extension. But I'm not a big gambler so I'm going to voice my opnion anyway.

[Guest C5Archery]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please pin)

Thanks MCH, I agree that there are some good ole boys on this board. I have read the oklahoma posts for some time now. That was one of the reasons to join the board discussions. I may have been a little fired up when i wrote my above post. I do believe that there are more ethical hunters in the state then there are unethical. The problem is the damage that so few can create. I have not spoken to one hunter that is in favor of the extended muzzeloader season. I can't wait for Tuesday nights meeting.

[huntinsonovagun]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the doe days. Here's the deal. I am hearing several say that there are not many does in their areas. I just tallied up what I saw this year, which included 40 does and 12 bucks (not including fawns or unidentified deer). This is a ratio of ~1 buck to every 3.4 does. Not quite as bad as I thought. I believe it is a little closer to 1:4 since I believe the majority of the unknowns were does (most of the so-called "unknowns" were deer in large groups that I couldn't distinguise from a doe and a fawn, etc...)

I do however still think the extended BP season is a HUGE mistake. I really hope that doesn't pass. I see the majority of my bucks between the end of BP and the beginning of rifle. That just means more yearlings will be killed.

I am wondering about maybe making a few more doe days to help balance the ratio, but I'm not positve that opening the firearms seasons for does on any days is the best thing to do. I guess that's what the biologists get paid to do though. I should just suggest it...

Anyway, just thought I would give some more of you my thoughts...

[Gator]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

[ QUOTE ]

I am wondering about maybe making a few more doe days to help balance the ratio, but I'm not positve that opening the firearms seasons for does on any days is the best thing to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

If only 1 doe can be taken, what should it matter what day it is taken on? If people are gonna poach, they're gonna poach at any oppurtunity, if that's what your getting at.

[MCH]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

Any news guys? How did your meetings go?? What were the community's thoughts??

[Gator]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

Mine are tonight, do'nt know if I will make it or not.

Really wanna try though, I don't like the idea of an extended ML season AT ALL

[Guest C5Archery]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

A post on bowsite.com said that they are presenting this as an all or nothing package. And that the whispers from the wardens and department personnel is that they are not in favor of these changes, and were not tabed for insight prior to the drafting of this legisalation. Here is a link to the e-mail accounts for the wildlife committe in the state hose of reps. I prepose we flood thier inboxes ASAP.....http://www.lsb.state.ok.us/

navigate through until you find the wildlife committe members. Their e-mail addresses can be found under the list of all representatives.

[huntinsonovagun]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

I contacted the House of Rep. for my representative and was told I need to contact the Dept. of Wildlife. Anyone who is unable to attend, PLEASE email your thoughts to this email address!!! We can't do this alone! I'm going to send an email right now, and then try to make the meeting tonight if I can get off work early enough...Thanks guys...

[email protected]

[huntinsonovagun]

Re: Oklahoma Regulations Public Hearings (Please p

[ QUOTE ]

We will not be able to respond to your comments. Comments received through the mail or by e-mail will be included with the comments received at the public hearings. All comments are weighted equally whether received in writing or at a meeting. All comments must be received by Jan. 13 at 4:30 p.m.

[/ QUOTE ]

PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL!!!!

[email protected]