slugshooter Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Anything that can heal or help prolong someone's life is OK in my book. Maybe some think that this is playing God, well, next time you get a headache, let it go away on it's own, or when you get sick, don't take any medicine, don't take any penicillin or any other type of prescription drug, cause that can be construed as playing God, don't go through with a life saving surgery, it can all be construed as playing God. Stem cells have the remarkable potential to develop into many different cell types in the body. Serving as a sort of repair system for the body, they can theoretically divide without limit to replenish other cells as long as the person or animal is still alive. When a stem cell divides, each new cell has the potential to either remain a stem cell or become another type of cell with a more specialized function, such as a muscle cell, a red blood cell, or a brain cell. Embryonic stem cells, as their name suggests, are derived from embryos. Specifically, embryonic stem cells are derived from embryos that develop from eggs that have been fertilized in vitro—in an in vitro fertilization clinic—and then donated for research purposes with informed consent of the donors. They are not derived from eggs fertilized in a woman's body. The embryos from which human embryonic stem cells are derived are typically four or five days old and are a hollow microscopic ball of cells called the blastocyst. The blastocyst includes three structures: the trophoblast, which is the layer of cells that surrounds the blastocyst; the blastocoel, which is the hollow cavity inside the blastocyst; and the inner cell mass, which is a group of approximately 30 cells at one end of the blastocoel adult stem cells have been identified in many organs and tissues. One important point to understand about adult stem cells is that there are a very small number of stem cells in each tissue. Stem cells are thought to reside in a specific area of each tissue where they may remain quiescent (non-dividing) for many years until they are activated by disease or tissue injury. The adult tissues reported to contain stem cells include brain, bone marrow, peripheral blood, blood vessels, skeletal muscle, skin and liver. Scientists in many laboratories are trying to find ways to grow adult stem cells in cell culture and manipulate them to generate specific cell types so they can be used to treat injury or disease. Some examples of potential treatments include replacing the dopamine-producing cells in the brains of Parkinson's patients, developing insulin-producing cells for type I diabetes and repairing damaged heart muscle following a heart attack with cardiac muscle cells. Studies of human embryonic stem cells may yield information about the complex events that occur during human development. A primary goal of this work is to identify how undifferentiated stem cells become differentiated. Scientists know that turning genes on and off is central to this process. Some of the most serious medical conditions, such as cancer and birth defects, are due to abnormal cell division and differentiation. A better understanding of the genetic and molecular controls of these processes may yield information about how such diseases arise and suggest new strategies for therapy. A significant hurdle to this use and most uses of stem cells is that scientists do not yet fully understand the signals that turn specific genes on and off to influence the differentiation of the stem cell. Human stem cells could also be used to test new drugs. For example, new medications could be tested for safety on differentiated cells generated from human pluripotent cell lines. Other kinds of cell lines are already used in this way. Cancer cell lines, for example, are used to screen potential anti-tumor drugs. But, the availability of pluripotent stem cells would allow drug testing in a wider range of cell types. However, to screen drugs effectively, the conditions must be identical when comparing different drugs. Therefore, scientists will have to be able to precisely control the differentiation of stem cells into the specific cell type on which drugs will be tested. Current knowledge of the signals controlling differentiation fall well short of being able to mimic these conditions precisely to consistently have identical differentiated cells for each drug being tested. Perhaps the most important potential application of human stem cells is the generation of cells and tissues that could be used for cell-based therapies. Today, donated organs and tissues are often used to replace ailing or destroyed tissue, but the need for transplantable tissues and organs far outweighs the available supply. Stem cells, directed to differentiate into specific cell types, offer the possibility of a renewable source of replacement cells and tissues to treat diseases including Parkinson's and Alzheimer's diseases, spinal cord injury, stroke, burns, heart disease, diabetes, osteoarthritis, and rheumatoid arthritis. For example, it may become possible to generate healthy heart muscle cells in the laboratory and then transplant those cells into patients with chronic heart disease. Preliminary research in mice and other animals indicates that bone marrow stem cells, transplanted into a damaged heart, can generate heart muscle cells and successfully repopulate the heart tissue. Other recent studies in cell culture systems indicate that it may be possible to direct the differentiation of embryonic stem cells or adult bone marrow cells into heart muscle cells (Figure 4). In people who suffer from type I diabetes, the cells of the pancreas that normally produce insulin are destroyed by the patient's own immune system. New studies indicate that it may be possible to direct the differentiation of human embryonic stem cells in cell culture to form insulin-producing cells that eventually could be used in transplantation therapy for diabetics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Personally i think stem cell research has great potential. Stem cells can even be collected from umbilical cords now. I guess i can see teh controversy over embryonic stem cells(though i do not disagree with using them) but why anyone would oppose use of stem cells harvested from tissue that will be discarded is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted November 11, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] but why anyone would oppose use of stem cells harvested from tissue that will be discarded is beyond me. [/ QUOTE ] exactly !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 11, 2004 Report Share Posted November 11, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? True enough bronzeback, but the stem cells used are going to be tossed in a garbage can. THey are left overs so why not use them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shotupdeer Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] But maybe one of those fertilized eggs would have grown to be a scientist who finds another way to cure the same diseases without having to kill fertilized human embyo's? [/ QUOTE ] Very bad logic there. By the same token, it could grow up to be a mass murderer, so lets get rid of it before that happens. I don't have a problem with stem cell research, and think anything that can be used to help human life should be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Nothing WRONG with stem cell research as far as umbilical cord and adult stem cells go...thats the ONLY place we have found ANY potential, and that is where the breakthroughs have been. Now, embryonic stem cells, have NOT shown any potential and have not prduced any results. One has to create life and KILL it in order to harvest these stem cells! This is WRONG..only God has the right to create life, and an embryo IS human life in its simplest form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Ok Sluggo - I propose that President Bush put forth the exact same amount of federal funds that your hero Slick Willie did. IN FACT, I propose that President Bush DOUBLE, EVEN TRIPLE that amount. So how much federally funded dollars went towards stem cell research under the Clinton Admin? NOT A **** CENT, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA. You curse someone for doing the exact same thing that you hold another in high regards for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] Nothing WRONG with stem cell research as far as umbilical cord and adult stem cells go...thats the ONLY place we have found ANY potential, and that is where the breakthroughs have been. Now, embryonic stem cells, have NOT shown any potential and have not prduced any results. One has to create life and KILL it in order to harvest these stem cells! This is WRONG..only God has the right to create life, and an embryo IS human life in its simplest form. [/ QUOTE ] Figured you would bring this up after my response in your other thread. I have to agree with Martin on this one. I would not have a problem with the use of stem cells from the discarded umbilical cords, but creating a life to kill in my opinion is just plain wrong. Another thing to consider is where does the research end over the long run. Helping someone who is sick to recover and be better is great, but what are the chances that this type of research might possibly be leading to prolonging life indefinitely in the future by curing diseases and how then does that effect the populations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] Nothing WRONG with stem cell research as far as umbilical cord and adult stem cells go...thats the ONLY place we have found ANY potential, and that is where the breakthroughs have been. Now, embryonic stem cells, have NOT shown any potential and have not prduced any results. One has to create life and KILL it in order to harvest these stem cells! This is WRONG..only God has the right to create life, and an embryo IS human life in its simplest form. [/ QUOTE ] You summed up my feelings on the subject very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Just wondering what your views are on this(Those who disagree with embryonic stem cells). In most cases teh embryo's used are extra's from reproductive clinics helpin invertile couples. These fertilized eggs are going to be throw in the garbage. So if this life will die anyway, why not gain from it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] Just wondering what your views are on this(Those who disagree with embryonic stem cells). In most cases teh embryo's used are extra's from reproductive clinics helpin invertile couples. These fertilized eggs are going to be throw in the garbage. So if this life will die anyway, why not gain from it? [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, today they're thrown away but if you put this into production you're going to see research labs start paying for them, thus you'll have plenty that get knock'd up for a profit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] Nothing WRONG with stem cell research as far as umbilical cord and adult stem cells go...thats the ONLY place we have found ANY potential, and that is where the breakthroughs have been. Now, embryonic stem cells, have NOT shown any potential and have not produced any results. One has to create life and KILL it in order to harvest these stem cells! This is WRONG..only God has the right to create life, and an embryo IS human life in its simplest form. [/ QUOTE ] My feelings too. If you want to live forever, instead of just a few more years, put your faith in Jesus, not stem-cell research. I also agree with PH. Once they open up this can-O-worms, of creating life, then destroying it to save another, or even using discarded umbilical chords, money always comes into play. Where there is money, there is the love of money and the "love" of money, is the root of evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 12, 2004 Report Share Posted November 12, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Thought I might just add that stem cell is big business whether you know it or not. Government funding or not they are really sticiking it to the people who will buy into it. Back before my mother in law passed away from cancer she had my wife talked into getting setup with this deal where our daughters cord would be frozen after she was born. She had motives in that she had hopes it might help save her, which would have been fine if they could have told us how it might in fact be able to be used to save her at the time which was in 2000. Our cost up front was going to be like $1500 to get a kit and then we were going to have to pay a fee every year to keep it frozen. I am sure some people do this, we did not, was not really something we could afford with having to pay for our part, the part the insurance did not pay for my daughters birth and wifes care. There were no guarantees that the cord might be able to help her or possibly help our daughter in the future should she ever need it they ever even were able to prove that stem cells could help, but our money was guaranteed to be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce Schmeck Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] Its not a wrong way to look at the argument in the way I stated it shotup,because you are negative and I am positive that is wrong?You need some guidance there buddy.Lets Kill you than because you could kill someone,I know I won't. [/ QUOTE ] I believe shotup may have been engaging in doobie logic again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 13, 2004 Report Share Posted November 13, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Its not a wrong way to look at the argument in the way I stated it shotup,because you are negative and I am positive that is wrong?You need some guidance there buddy.Lets Kill you than because you could kill someone,I know I won't. [/ QUOTE ] I believe shotup may have been engaging in doobie logic again. [/ QUOTE ] Why? His argument is just as valid. Nobody knows what any of those embryo's would have become. If you can say they may have been great scientists, you also should agree they could be psycho's. Yes, one is obviously a more positive outlook, but that does not invalidate teh other possibility. That whole side topic aside, the bottom line is that stem cell research has shown great promise. Some people will never agree with embryonic stem cell research, and that is a valid position for them to take if it is what they believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Daddy Posted November 15, 2004 Report Share Posted November 15, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? You do realize, of course, that the current administration is the first to provide funding for any stem cell research. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Do you guys realize how many people the Bayer asprin people killed in the sake of experimentation. Checkout some of the Natzi records. Bet you do not give a rats @$$ when you have a headache. To make some of your statements right you would have to be totally natural. I bet if you had cancer and it was the cure you would defend it also. God gave us the intellect to find cures for ourselfs and I believe we should use it. If you don't then speak out against the fetility clinics. Elwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Nothing WRONG with stem cell research as far as umbilical cord and adult stem cells go...thats the ONLY place we have found ANY potential, and that is where the breakthroughs have been. Now, embryonic stem cells, have NOT shown any potential and have not produced any results. One has to create life and KILL it in order to harvest these stem cells! This is WRONG..only God has the right to create life, and an embryo IS human life in its simplest form. [/ QUOTE ] My feelings too. If you want to live forever, instead of just a few more years, put your faith in Jesus, not stem-cell research. I also agree with PH. Once they open up this can-O-worms, of creating life, then destroying it to save another, or even using discarded umbilical chords, money always comes into play. Where there is money, there is the love of money and the "love" of money, is the root of evil. [/ QUOTE ] What they said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted November 16, 2004 Report Share Posted November 16, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? [ QUOTE ] Anything that can heal or help prolong someone's life is OK in my book. . [/ QUOTE ] I heard that sacrificing a tree hugging liberal to the sun god would add 15 years to your life. Wanna volenteer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Umm actually the experiments were done on Jewish prisoners in concentration camps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elwood Posted November 17, 2004 Report Share Posted November 17, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Thanks fisher guy. Natzi camps were the Guinie Pigs for Bayer so I don't think that you realize what your are talking about Bronzeback. If your terminal illness would change your mind about stem cell research then don't preach to the chore. Elwood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? I don't have time now, but i will look later. Bayer(the company that invented and developed asprin) was funded by the Nazi party, produced the gas they used to kill millions of people, and had swastika's on their advertising. Many of the "experiments" carried out in the concentration camps were supposedly "research" experiments and Bayer was involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Really do not see why this is even being compared like it is. Yes what happened with the nazis was wrong, but there is no comparison really. Creating a human life(embryo is a life whether you like it or not) in an environment that is not in any way natural just to do experiments on it is wrong no matter how you look at it. Sugar coating it saying it might save some lifes does not take away the fact that an innocent life is being taken for research purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ILBrad Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Re: Whats so wrong about stem cell research ? Slugshooter you gave a very thorough and indepth explanation of what embryonic stem cell research is all about. I agree it could produce some stunning advances in medicine and gene therapy. If the issue was only cord blood or already established embryos that are scheduled for destruction I don't think there would be an issue. But you must see where the slippery slope can lead us. People producing a fetus solely for the purpose of selling it to research instituitons. I do not know your religious beliefs, and I do not want to, it is none of my business. However, regardless of your, mine or anyone else's beliefs you must understand that the majority of this country is of the judeo-christian ethic that life is sacred, and a gift from God. Whether you agree or disagree with that, it is the majority opinion. The next issue that comes to bear is, if you say there is no life in these embryos, you MUST be able to absolutely define when life begins. You see what is coming don't you? Once you say this is when life begins then the abortion argument comes into play. I do not know your stand on abortion, I would imagine you are for it based on the leftist opinions you normally champion here, if I am wrong I apologize. But regardless of how you feel about it, if you try to determine a point when absolutely life begins the arguments for and against abortion are going to go crazy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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