Tell me why

[fisherguy]

This is gonnna be good! Do a search of old threads and most will contain the answer to your question. The first part is that religious and non-religious people interpret your constitution differently. As to the other part....

[Guest INHunterman]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

This is just an observation I've made as a non-religious person. The christians in this forum (almost everybody) get into quite a stirr when somebody tries to take religion out of government (despite the constitution requiring so). Why is this? You will all agree that islam, judeism, and other such religions don't have any room in our government, but why christianity? If equality is what fuels this, then don't push for yours in it as well. I just don't understand why anybody would want something that is so controversial, contradictory, and unfair in a government that is of the people, for the people and by the people (mind you a large portion of US citizens aren't religious.) I AM NOT trying to start a fight, if somebody wants one just go to a bar. I'm simply looking for a legitimate reason that christianity should even be tollerated (let alone praised as today) in our government?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just where in the constitution does it require that religion not be in the government?

[Ravin R10 man]

Re: Tell me why

Carbon; Our government was fundamentally based on Christian principals from day one, in fact the constitution whaicj govern us, was taken right out of the Bible.

[oldksnarc]

Re: Tell me why

First, 84% of the people in the US do believe in God and Jesus Christ.

Second, the Constitution does say "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." This means the government cannot dictate to us what religion we practice or observe. It only precludes the government from controlling that portion of our lives like the monarchy did in England. You have the right to be non-religious just like others have the right to be Christian, Muslim or whatever.

Since our founding fathers - and the majority of the people who founded and settled this land - were Christian, Christianity prevails throughout our history and the doctrines adopted in our creation as a sovreign nation. Had America been founded by Muslims or Buddhists we would be practicing one of those religions by default.

Since this was a country settled and founded by Christians, Christianity is our religion. We don’t say those who come here have to worship and believe as we do. But, don’t make us turn away from our beliefs because you or they don’t agree or your religion is different. If it’s a sticking point for anyone desiring to come here – don’t come. We shouldn’t have to sway to you or them.

Our traditions are ours and theirs are theirs. We don’t make them quit practicing theirs, i.e. Hannukah, Kwanzaa, Cinco de Mayo, and so forth. They shouldn’t make us stop practicing ours just so we don’t offend. We can’t be all things to all men.

Finally, how many of you non-believers or believers of other religions exchange Christmas gifts or take the day(s) off for our religious holidays when you are so opposed to it being forced on you. Don’t observe it if you don’t want; don’t exchange gifts; don’t listen to the songs; go to work.

[LifeNRA]

Re: Tell me why

Who cares! You do your thing! Ill do mine! As long as it doesnt break the law, who cares! Weather you believe or not!

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Tell me why

I am not a real religios person either but this country was founded on Christian beliefs if I am not mistaken. I can't stand the fact that the lesser percentage of "non" believers are having our way of life changed because it offends them. What makes it even worse is the fact that Muslims and Arabs are coming over here crying about things that offend them.

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Dennslf, I'm not even sure what to make of what you wrote, edit some of the sentence stucture so that is understandable

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that was a little childish if you ask me. What's not to understand what he wronte

[dg]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

You will all agree that islam, judeism, and other such religions don't have any room in our government, but why christianity?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why doesn't islam, judeism, and other such religions have any room in our govt? <fishing for an answer here pro and con>

[Jimfrompa]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

Hunterman "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,"

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just thought the whole first amendment should be stated. To keep it in context. It just seems to me that this means no laws should be made concerning establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. To me that means that the Congress should keep out of it all togather. And the Will of the majority will prevail." Make no laws" Thats why Christians must try to protect what this country stands for and not let it be hijacked by a few people who do not want any one telling them that they could be wrong. That there is a right and a wrong. Not what ever feels good to me today. If you listen to the still small voice that tells you what is right. and not the feelings that tell you what feels good you can not help but know the truth.

[slugshooter]

Re: Tell me why

One thing I find interesting when this subject is debated is how often percentages are tossed around like they mean something. 85% of Americans believe in God, or was it 75%, or is it higher or lower. A belief in God does not translate into Christianity, if 75% of US Citizens believed in God and Jesus Christ and actually lived it, there would be a lot less problems right now and the churches would be filled to capacity and overflowing. There are probably over 100 churches in Fayetteville, NC and not one is filled to capacity on Sunday morning.

The US Constitution is also not set up to protect the majority, it is set up to protect the minority from losing their rights against the majority. One thing that I never hear mentioned as far as the constitution is concerned, everyone wants to bring up the first amendment, I particularly find interesting Article 6, the last paragraph to be exact, "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

[buckee]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

One thing I find interesting when this subject is debated is how often percentages are tossed around like they mean something. 85% of Americans believe in God, or was it 75%, or is it higher or lower. A belief in God does not translate into Christianity, if 75% of US Citizens believed in God and Jesus Christ and actually lived it, there would be a lot less problems right now and the churches would be filled to capacity and overflowing. There are probably over 100 churches in Fayetteville, NC and not one is filled to capacity on Sunday morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point Marc. It's sad really

[ QUOTE ]

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not to say the voters can't put them to the test though.

[jdickey]

Re: Tell me why

When the founding fathers began establishing the "laws of the land" for this country, they used as their model what is generally referred to as the "English Common Law". Much of this same ideology was used to form the Constitution, but with a forethought by including the method of changing the Constitution by passing amendments.

The Constitution EQUALLY protects the rights of those who do and do not practice a religion. Christians are the "vocal majority" as far as a religion in this country; but there are those that advocate that the Bible is nothing but a book of Jewish fairy tales. But, both ideologies are protected equally by the Constitution.

Since most hold that this country had been founded upon Christian ideals, the outcry when those beliefs are eroded or removed is understandable.

[stevebeilgard]

Re: Tell me why

our country is based on the judeo/christian phylosophy. while i believe that most americans believe in god, or a superio being, that does not mean they go to church. i know may folks who believe in god, but not an established religion. can a person pray at home, and worship god in his own way, without being a member of a local church??? i believe they can.

i believe you set an erroneous premis with your stateent that judeo, muslims, etc don't have equal rights in our government. only christians do. i believe that is wrong. all our constitution says is that the government will not establish a religion. remember, the brittish government set the anglican religion as the religion of that country. those who fled to america wanted to worship the religion of their choice, not the government's. so, freedom to choose is the basis of our constitution. and the right to choose. if you want to be a muslim, or jew, or catholic, fine. just don't tell me what to do.

[oldksnarc]

Re: Tell me why

The point was that the United States of America was founded and created by people who believed in Christianity. A Christian cannot got to a Muslim predominate state/country and expect them to ignore their religion in deferrence to my religion. The same with other religions coming here. I shouldn't have to abrogate my beliefs or observances for the sake of yours.

The government is precluded from saying everyone living in the US will be and observe Christain beliefs. However, it is also precluded from saying I can't observe and practice my beliefs because it might offend someone. And that's what is has come to - to appease the minority the majority has to turn its head to what they believe? I don't think so.

[Guest Southern_man]

Re: Tell me why

What does being "religious" mean??? Being religious don't get you to heaven. Accepting Christ as your savior and having a personal relationship with him is what gets you to heaven.

I've never understood what being "religious" really meant??? Another question to add to the discussion.

[EKYhunter]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

You will all agree that islam, judeism, and other such religions don't have any room in our government, but why christianity?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why doesn't islam, judeism, and other such religions have any room in our govt? <fishing for an answer here pro and con>

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll tell you why. This country was founded on Christian beliefs and principals. Many of our forefathers from England left that country because of religious persecution. They did not want to come to the "New world" to worship allah or buda as they saw fit, no they wanted to worship the Lord Jesus Christ as they saw fit! The reason we have separation of Church and State in this country is because the monarchy was the head of the church in England which led to numerous problems and persecution. I don't know why that is so hard to understand. Do any of us think that the founding fathers would object to the ten commandments being posted in a school, a courthouse, or any other building? While I'm talking about the founding fathers, I wonder how they would feel about a "religion" that taught that if you kill innocent women and children you went to heaven where a number of virgins were waiting for you? Oh I'm sure they would love it don't you? Or how about a religion that taught that we come back as a dog or a cat after we die? Do we think they would approve of such beliefs? These are the same men who understood how important it was for each man to own a fiream to protect his family and his country! I know these men were not perfect and had many faults as we all do but they unserstood that Christian morals and principals were needed not only to form a socitey but to hold it together as well! Our great country has been blessed down through the years because, on the whole, we are a nation that fears God and keeps his commandments! Sometimes I think we outsmart ourselves by saying "One religion is as good as another" or "what does it matter what a man believes" We'll the founders knew what to believe and based the greatest country that this world has ever known on the teachings of God and the Lord Jesus Christ!

[horst]

Re: Tell me why

Actually I was under the impression this country was founded under the Freedom of religion.Which means you could practice any faith you wish to.

I was also under the impression that the seperation of church and state were in place to keep the government from shoving one particuliar brand of religion down everyones throats.After all, thats one of the reasons we left England to start with wasnt it?Seems to me your twisting things around quite a bit to suit your own purpose when bringing up what this country was founded on.It certainly wasnt the belief we should all be under a christian government.I always thought t was the belief everyone was created equally, that means that thier rights are just as important as yours.

[py_archer]

Re: Tell me why

Not all the founding fathers were Christians. Many of the American founding fathers, such as Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, Samuel Adams, Thomas Paine, James Madison and Ethan Allen were well known Deists. They believed in God, but not as Christians.

[Steven]

Re: Tell me why

Christians shove their beliefs down non-Christians throats enough. We surely don't need government doing it also.

[BowJoe]

Re: Tell me why

What I don't understand is why we as Christians think that what our forefathers set before us can dictate who, what, when, where, why and how we can have religion. I was taught to believe that anywhere two may gather to worship in his name is the same a church. These broad sweeping statements with "Christians" as a whole are very dorrogatory. I don't say "You athiests" and neither does anyone else. If you want to not believe in GOD then that's your soul not mine. A Christian is however required to tell you of Jesus Christ in the chance that you may find him in your life and welcome him into your heart. I know it's not what you want to hear but as part of my beliefs, I have to tell you. I think it's a shame that whatever happened to you to not believe in GOD was very unfortunate and I want you to know that GOD doesn't care what your reasons are as long as you accept him into your life. He will forgive you no matter what and no man past, present or future can dictate whether you do or don't believe in him. As far as "christians" shoving my beliefs down your throat Racksie, I don't recall a judge forcing the Ten Commandments into your home or workplace or your public areas. I do however remember them being taken away from ours though. One last point. If it weren't for GOD's laws, murder would be legal along with theft, and many other laws that I am sure you appreciate to protect you and your family. God Bless and I am never sorry for my imposition on your so-called beliefs or the lack thereof.

[LeafWiper]

Re: Tell me why

Amen BowJoe. For those who reject God and his good word, the day of judgement is upon us, i hope you know what your doing. For those who reject God's presence in our government and society i pray that you have a change of heart. With out the man up stairs guiding this country, it would be as weak as a house built on sand. All i know is that Jesus says he is the ONLY way to heaven. Why would anyone in their right mind not accept that and take the chance of living eternity in ****. Look at it this way, say theres a 50-50 chance that there's life after death and a heaven and **** or when your dead your dead. Whats there to loose putting all your heart and soul into praising God while your alive. If he isnt real, who cares your dead! I think i sleep a little bit better at night praising and thanking my homeboy JC.

[bulldawg]

Re: Tell me why

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If he isnt real, who cares your dead!

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I ponder on this statement alot these days. If he is real, why does he hit certain people up with extreme hardships? I do believe, in my own way. I just don't go to church. But, hardships abound in my life, which makes it tough to keep believing! Pain is an everyday occurance. Why would an everloving God put people through that?

There are many questions that can't be answered.

My beliefs are based on the evangelical luthern teachings. And, I think that the "one nation under God" needs to be kept in the government affairs. Just my opinion.

Dawg

[johnf]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

If he isnt real, who cares your dead!

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I ponder on this statement alot these days. If he is real, why does he hit certain people up with extreme hardships? I do believe, in my own way. I just don't go to church. But, hardships abound in my life, which makes it tough to keep believing! Pain is an everyday occurance. Why would an everloving God put people through that?

There are many questions that can't be answered.

My beliefs are based on the evangelical luthern teachings. And, I think that the "one nation under God" needs to be kept in the government affairs. Just my opinion.

Dawg

[/ QUOTE ]

Why do bad things happen to good people?

Sometimes bad things just happen.

Q Why did I fall and break my back this fall?

A Because I didn't have my stand securely attatched to the tree.

I knew the best way to do it was with 2 high quality rachet straps, but I wanted to save money, so I used a chain and turnbuckle. Was I punished by the "god of hunting" because of the sin of not using the best tie down? No, I got the cosiquences of what I did wrong. If someone else had been in the stand and fell they would have been hurt because of what I did wrong.

Sin is the same way. God doesn't punish us for our sins. His laws are there to protect us like a parent who tells a child not to go out in the street or touch a hot stove. When we ignore them we reap the consiquences that they bring. The laws of God are like an umbrella that protects ous in the rain. When you step out of the umbrella you get wet.

You can also be affected by other peoples sin. ie. Your boss cheats on his taxes and goes bankrupt because of it, then you lose your job. You are then affected by his sin.

It is not Gods will for any of us to have pain and heartache. His laws, if followed, will protect us from most of it.

[johnf]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

Dennslf, I'm not even sure what to make of what you wrote, edit some of the sentence stucture so that is understandable.

narc, I'm not speaking about he holidays that are celebrated in the US, becasue depending on where you live, some are and some arent. I don't mind holidays, but I don't overly like them either, not the point I was making. The values I was alluding to were those that deal with peoples rights, death/vedgation, and schooling. I could give a rat's behind about people celebrating their holidays, in fact the way I view the constitution, they have to be able to. What concerns me is instances like the schiavo case (which I don't want to re-open, it's done). Where does the president of the united states get off trying to DICTATE what is law just because of his religion. Or in education, if the christian way of how the world began is taught in public schools, so should the islam, buddhist, and any other religions way. The actual religious theories don't bother me because people do and always should have the right to choose, but if only one religion is to be taught, wouldn't that violate the "Congress shall make no law " clause in the constitution? My main question still stands, what gives christians the gual to try and manipulate the law to their favor? [ QUOTE ]

If it’s a sticking point for anyone desiring to come here – don’t come. We shouldn’t have to sway to you or them.

[/ QUOTE ]. This is the mentallity that I hear from many christians, it's their country, you know the United States of Christianity, in some minds not the USA. It's clearly writen otherwise in the constitution, why are christians special in a country where all are equal?

As for religious offiliation, the people who claim christianity stood at 76.5% in 01 with a .9%/year drop leaving it at ~73% now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was going to address that, but it seems it has been covered

This one isn't nessicarily a religious argument. I am a very concervative Christain person who was pleased at the outcome. This, to me, was more about the rights of the spouse and the right of a dignified end to a life. IMO this would not have been an issure 20 or 30 years ago simply because she never would have lived in the first place. I don't think it is God's will for us to keep alive someone who would otherwise never be whole again JMHO

The THEORY of evilution has less scientific proof than creation has. Every major religion in the world believes in creation, it's not just the Christians. Teaching a theory on the beginning of the universe that has absolutely no difinitive proof (evilution) as fact is completely irrisponsible, especially when the theory of creation, as most open minded scientist will tell you, has vast amounts of evidence leaning towards its proof.

To assume that the theory with no proof is true is unscientific and presumptuous.

The constitution gives us the right.

If Christians vote for someone who holds their values, and that person creates or votes for laws that protect the rights of Chistians or puts their values into law, that is perfectly legal.

You can't legislate who someone prays to or how they worship, but you can affect other things like gambling, prostitution, strip clubs, alcohol (dry counties), and many other issues that have less to do with religion and more with morality.

We have the right to legislate moral issues regardless of what the ACLU may tell you.

[horst]

Re: Tell me why

[ QUOTE ]

why we as Christians think that what our forefathers set before us can dictate who, what, when, where, why and how we can have religion

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So how do you stand on gun rights?Because the only thing keeping the antis from taking your guns away right now are a few words our forefathers wrote.You cant pick which parts of the constitution you get to follow, its either all or none of it.

[BowJoe]

Re: Tell me why

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why we as Christians think that what our forefathers set before us can dictate who, what, when, where, why and how we can have religion

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So how do you stand on gun rights?Because the only thing keeping the antis from taking your guns away right now are a few words our forefathers wrote.You cant pick which parts of the constitution you get to follow, its either all or none of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So why is it that the ACLU people and the other people that don't really have any beliefs other than they shouldn't feel uncomfortable when people are expressing their beliefs are picking apart the Constitution? The key word in your statement to me as a Christian are the words forefather not The Father. I will pick and choose what parts I want to use to the benefit of everyone as long as they don't conflict with what God has ordained as law. I don't care if I ever say the Pledge of Allegiance again because the BIBLE doesn't say I have to in order to get to heaven. I think that the people that have a grudge against God are the one's that may one day suffer his wrath. I appreciate that I can hunt, fish and work hard to live happy while I am here on earth. My allegiance is to God and God alone. If you don't like that then by your own definition you are keeping me from practicing my religious freedom. Sound familiar. If you tell me that I can't make reference to God or Jesus Christ or the Holy Spirit then you are keeping me from my religious freedom and that will not be tolerated. No one has ever said you must admire, listen to or agree with my beliefs but all I hear is people saying how unfair it is to even be around people practicing their religion. What's the harm? I have had to endure your rantings about your religious freedoms while you limit mine. Why even complain? You don't even have a religion. You always have and always will have the right to walk away, ignore or even voice your oppinion as to your dislike of God. Just don't tell me I have to do any of those things. God didn't need the council of the courts or government when he created everything and neither do I. God has already made his laws. As a side note.......did you know that if you violate a law of the land that doesn't conflict with the laws of God that it is still a sin? Just thought I'd throw that out there. Stop with the lawsuits and realize that the people filing for the ACLU don't really care how you feel, they just want your money. The more you get offended and announce it to the world the richer the ACLU gets along with it's lawyers. If someone praying near you or practicing their religious beliefs around you makes you feel uncomfortable then go national with your hate for God and then see how uncomfortable you feel when you go to the grocery store or out in public again and everyone you just offended stares at you because you are now famous for hating God and shaming their hometown. Have fun!!! oh did I offend you?