AJ Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 With some of the other posts about differneces with different brands of 209 primers, I thought I would do a little research. Here are 4 different popular 209 primers. I took some measurements of 3 of each brand and averaged them. Why the big difference? They are designed to go into shotshell hulls, not breechplugs. Shotgunners buy a whole bunch more primers than do muzzleloader shooters. In this picture you can see the different profiles of each of the primers. Left to right are CCI 209M, Win 209, Fed 209A, and Rem STS. In this picture you can see the difference in the dimentions. This is a list I got from Hodgdon a few years ago about 209 Primer temperature. Hottest to coldest. Federal 209A Chedditte Remington CCI 209 M Winchester CCI standard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Remington has a 209 primer they dub" Klean Bore 209 Muzzleloading Primer". I have also seen Winchester 209 primers designed for muzzleloaders. Just wondering if these are sized any differently or is it basicly a ploy to get you to buy them? Thanks for your research! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences [ QUOTE ] Remington has a 209 primer they dub" Klean Bore 209 Muzzleloading Primer". I have also seen Winchester 209 primers designed for muzzleloaders. [/ QUOTE ] Remington's Kleenbore 209 primer is different than its STS 209 primer. I am not sure exactly where it falls on the temperature scale, but it is cooler than the STS. Winchester only makes one 209 primer and its the W209. It just has a different wrapper for muzzleloaders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottyLuck Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences [ QUOTE ] Winchester only makes one 209 primer and its the W209. It just has a different wrapper for muzzleloaders. [/ QUOTE ] A different price as well! The "ML" primers are more that the "shotgun" primers around here. Real nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hangunnr Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Nice comparison. FWIW I measured up 10 Remmy 209-4 primers and came up with virtually the same numbers as the STS primer with one exception. The rim thickness averaged slightly under .020". I can't see that small a deviance amounting to anything though. hangunnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too_pointer Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Thanks AJ. I use Winchester, and always thought they were one of the hottest, not I know differently too_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Welcome to the group Robert. This board is full of good info from many knowledgable people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences OK, so what's that mean to the new guy on the block (me)? I mean, does it matter what primer you use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockefeller66 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences I don't know what we use, it isn't any of those though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences [ QUOTE ] I mean, does it matter what primer you use? [/ QUOTE ] It can. Just like everything else, its another variable in the equasion of accuracy. If you are trying to work up a load and are not having a lot of luck by varying powder levels, jump to a new primer, and start over. That's part of the fun of working up loads. Finding what is the best for your particular gun. Another thing to keep in mind is physical size of the primer. In Bobcat68's thread about Pursuit Pro problems it can be related to the physical size of the primer. Since Winchester is the longest of the primers I checked, I would go to another brand and see if the problem still exists. What does this mean to your Black Diamond? Your BD is a 3-way ignition source. You can use #11 caps, musket caps, or 209 primers. In my BD, I used the musket cap ignition and my groups shrunk dramatically. I no longer use 209 primers in muzzleloaders other than my smokeless Savage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Man, that is so helpful for a newbie like me AJ, hangunnr, and lemoyne. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest deldeer Posted January 11, 2006 Report Share Posted January 11, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences i have switched to the rem. cleanbore after shooting federals for years, i did notice a slight difference in the crudering, & breechplug fouling..some they havent noticed a difference though..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted January 14, 2006 Report Share Posted January 14, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Yep this saved me from spending money on the Winchester "ML" labeled 209 primers. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannoBoone1 Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences I tried the Fed, Win, CCIM & CCI standard in two different barrels in my Encore. Didn't seem to matter much what the temp or size was........no load got much better than minute of deer. At that time I couldn't find the Rem 209-4's around here. So I ordered a plug & brass from Cecil Epp's and converted to the .25 ACP using small rifle CCI mag primers. Groups shrunk drastically and made me a happy camper. I would never have believed there could be such a difference. My 10ML does best with CCI 209 M, and there they are at mid-range heat. Second best are the Fed209A's and they are the hottest. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Danno- I was wondering if "hotter is better". I guess it boils down to what "your" gun likes... The thing is about that is thats the more expensive way of finding out having to buy "everything" to test. LOL Oh well sometimes you get luckly a crank out tiny groups up front. Or you look for years like I did with my Remingont 700ML... I hope thats not the case for this Encore 15" Bbl 209x50 ML. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted January 15, 2006 Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences [ QUOTE ] GrnMntMan, while each gun is different sometimes similar guns like similar loads you might think about trying 90gr P and 200 gr Shock Wave it works for me. Lee [/ QUOTE ] Is that load worked up in a 15" barrel or 26"? I have the pistol version 209x50. I just bought a box of T/C ShockWaves at 250g and some of those Winchester 209s to try out this week when I am off. (Had to use up a Dick girf card and its all they had for 209s) I have used the same ShockWaves before with great results. Plus they were only $9 for the box... All I have for powder is 50g Pyrodex pellets so 100g will make it thump... I plan to buy a box of 30g pellets soon, and after that some 777 loose powder if the pellets dont show me what I want to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 15, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 15, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences Hotter is not better when using Pyrodex or Triple 7. It forms a nasty crud ring when the primer is too hot. I also shoot a handgun version of the 209x50 in my Encore and I worked up a load of 80 gr of Triple 7. I did not shoot it over the chronograph but it grouped great. It is a handfull when it goes off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 Re: 209 Primer Differences 80g is good. I can use a 50g and 30g pellet to get that. I can get quite a few different grain loads with the 2 sizes if ya think about it. One of them has got to do the trick. LOL Good to know about hot primers and pellets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grafik0117 Posted January 15, 2010 Report Share Posted January 15, 2010 [ QUOTE ] I mean, does it matter what primer you use? [/ QUOTE ] What does this mean to your Black Diamond? Your BD is a 3-way ignition source. You can use #11 caps, musket caps, or 209 primers. In my BD, I used the musket cap ignition and my groups shrunk dramatically. I no longer use 209 primers in muzzleloaders other than my smokeless Savage. This seems to be corroborated by the variflame primer adapter. It's the size and shape of a 209 primer and can be reprimed with small rifle primers. It's supposed to improve accuracy and reduce the crude ring. Check out the article http://www.muzzleloadingbullets.com/variflame_primer_adapter.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimerMan Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Where can I see the photos of the primers listed in 209 Primer Differences? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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