Drives=Fair Chase?

[VtBowhunter]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

I could have swore I asked that the lazy issue be dropped.......guess I was mistaken.

[Jimfrompa]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

I love deer drives after the first day of the season.It is so fun to plan and see the plan come togather. I don't like to drive with anyone I don't know though. I need to know that they are good safe and ethical. I was the dog this year as i tagged out the first day and i enjoyed planning and directing the drives and seeing my friends harvest a deer that will feed their family during the winter. As for B&C and P&Y any one that is blessed to tag a deer that is book worthy and they have done it following all of the game laws should be in the book.

[LETMGROW]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

Have done many drives. Little success! Only deer I ever shot on a drive went behind me [i was a driver] and I dumped it.

Had an incident involving a hunter in my party shooting at a deer in a small push and my son came into view right in the line of fire. Luckily everything was ok but it's the last organized "drive" we have participated in. Now we limit ourselves to maybe one of us moving about while the other "sits" But rest assured we know where each other is. Fair chase? Yes. Dangerous IMO yes. To each their own.

Please be safe.!!!

[Guest deerhntnwithdogs]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

It definetly is dangerous I will say that. I also do realize that it wouldnt make much sense to call it lazy but since VT asked it to be dropped I will respect that and leave it alone. I have a friend who about 5 years ago was driving dogs and a guest hunter shot him in the chest with buckshot at 20 steps away. His vest was a blaze/tan bird hunters vest. Now how does that happen? Beats me but when adrenaline gets going people tend not to think as well as calmer times. Thats why we always make a point that the dog drivers never stop hollering. And the man drivers always use different pitches when they are walking than when they jump a deer to let the standers know somethings up. They also use different pitches from each other to keep the people seperated so we know where they are. Of course its dangerous but I find it alot of fun to do both man and dog drives and love the comeradery before, the excitement and supspense during, and the comeradery after the drive too. Please DO be safe as letmgrow said. Remember to wear as much blaze orange as you can without risking your hunting progress (after all if you didnt want to get close to the deer you wouldnt be hunting in the woods with a shotgun anyway now would you lol) but still being safe in the process.

[okbowman]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

If you want to do drives, then do drives. If you don't then don't. I am sure the B&C and P&Y have spent a lot of time coming up with criteria to get a buck in their respective books, so I have no problem with a book buck having been driven or not if they don't.

[WHISKEYSWAMP]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

I wasn't calling anyone who posted on this subject lame... I was calling the "hunters" I saw hunting in the manner I described lame.

I am part of a couple drives every year. Usually there are at most 5 of us and the drivers are sneeking through the woods hoping to get a shot at something. The shooters will have a better chance at getting a shot since the deer won't be running 50mph. It's the banging on trees, yelling, and shooting at nothing that ticks me off... and most of them are tresspassing.

[Guest deerhntnwithdogs]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

The banging and shooting is a lil overboard but where we hunt the yelling is just to let the other hunters know 2 things: 1: Where the drivers are adn 2: when the deer gets up their yellings change in pace or pitch or whatever. Just pretty much a safety precausion. But I have no problem with B&C taking deer outta drives I think its good. and if you can shoot a deer running outta a drive with a bow you deserve your name in the books.

[VtBowhunter]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

The more I think of it the more I think......Why shouldn't drive bucks be entered into P&Y.......if it's in P&Y then it was killed with a bow, and if you can kill a deer that's spooked that much with a bow, then you desreve to be in there.........I still don't like drives, but I can see the challenge in it.

[Guest Huntin_Cop]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

I still stick with my original opinion on drives; a desperate attempt to harvest a deer when all other strategies fail. However, I would never call drive-hunters lazy, in the fact that they use alot more energy putting on the drive than I do sitting in my stand all day. But, I also think it has to do with location, a perspective I just now realized I overlooked...

Here in North-East Ky, we have rolling hills full of thick woods and deep hollows that seem to never end. Deer around here feel pretty secure even well into the hunting season, with alot of bucks never completely going nocternal; which makes harvesting a buck during daylight hours, not easy, but not impossible w/o the aid of drives. Whereas, for example, in the central states deer may more easily become nocternal from hunting pressure due the lack of cover making it almost impossible to harvest a deer w/o conducting a deer drive.

Although I dont care much for drives, I still respect those who do and will congratulate anyone who kills a deer during a drive. To me it's too much like "netting" fish in a small pond, whats the fun? But as someone posted early, "we need to quit criticizing each others way of hunting and stick together". This topic was never meant to put anyone down or even to "criticize", I was just curious to see everyones ideas on this topic.

[GWSmith]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

Spike, You have made a point that is Excellent!

I see no reason for drives to be made during the first few days of the opening of the season. Then with the hunting pressure around here...it's not just the bucks that go nocturnal..it's the deer herd!!!

If you dont go into the thick stuff and bump them out of it your chances of seeing a deer, let alone a good buck, go way down. Whats the sense of sitting in a treestand when in all likelyhood you wont see anything? Sure you could move your stand closer to the bedding area in hopes of seeing something. Most likely by the time you decide to do that, because your no longer seeing anything where you were, you would only drive deer from it into another area.

Not everyone who does drives for deer do it the same way!

There are alot of us out there that put alot of time into the planning of where, when, and how. Not everyone driving deer has a huge party of people doing so. Often times more than not I'll be walking slowly through a section of woods towards a single stander and then in another section of woods the role of who's walking will switch. Most of the deer drives I participate in there are only 2 persons involved.

The largest drive I have ever been a part of there were 5 people stalking/walking/driving and 3 people on stand sites. It was also the largest and longest section of woods this group has ever attempted a drive in and took over 5 hours to complete from start to finish. Well over 4 miles long and 1-2 miles wide of hilly terrain bordered on one side by a river and on the other by open pasture lands. The rules were simple and understood by everyone in the group. If a stander saw any Blaze Orange the hunt for the standers is immediately over and rifles get emptied...Regardless of what stepped out of the woods afterwards. If a driver was able to take a deer while driving they immediately took the deer to the green pasture land and they no longer participated in the drive. Out of 5 people driving...3 finished the drive to a designated spot. Thats where it was decided they were to leave the area in a way that would not allow them to come into contact with the standers by virtue of the terrain features. There were 2 people on stand sites that were able to take deer...neither of them had to be shot while running. On that particular drive the people on stand reported seeing over 30 deer and only a few of them were running.

The drivers saw countless deer and only took 2 of them but passed on many.

Nobody was hurt and everyone was happy to be a part of it. We consider that a successful drive.

BTW...On that drive...the shooting from the standers happened before the 3 drivers left over got to the 3/4's of the way done point. The standers ussually end up being the eldest of the group and above the age that it would be safe to let them walk through any kind of terrain to speak of.

At what point was that drive unfair to deer?

At what point was that drive anything like shooting Marlin in a barrell?

I'm not trying to change anyones mind here about doing drives or not...that's their choice. Just dont put me down because I choose to do so and put the planning and effort into it that makes it safe and successful for everyone participating.

Whats the difference from the safety factor of a drive like I described and anyone hunting on public land...with God only knows how many people walking around in all directions shooting at whatever moves?

I'll tell you...We knew where our people were, it was respectful to the game hunted, and it was completely planned!!!

P.S. Any comments made towards or about one style of hunting could be made about another...think about it

Whoever...Can sit there in one spot all day if they want when the deer are not moving...thats their choice.

I physically go after the deer...I'm Hunting.

[Swamphunter]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

I was thinking of somthing. How many guys have entered the woods with a buddy and while you are going to your treestand, you see a deer your buddy accidentally bumped? Would you take a shot at it if given a standing broadside shot (ethics here)? What if it was a B&C? You took it legally, how would it feel that you couldn't have your name in the books because someone pushed it to you? Lets face it guys, unless you are fortunate to own and hunt thousands of sprawling acres (all by yourself), there is a good chance that the deer you see coming through the woods was pushed by another hunter. Whether by sight, sound or odor, that deer left the area it was in. This also brings into question, still hunting. I love to still hunt, but this is basically a one man deer drive. You walk through the woods until you see a deer and it provides you with a good shot. How many times have we snuck up on a bedded deer? Probably not as many times as we jumped one and it paused for a second giving us a clear shot. Legal? Absolutely. Ethical? Absolutely.

[RangerClay]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

[ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of somthing. How many guys have entered the woods with a buddy and while you are going to your treestand, you see a deer your buddy accidentally bumped? Would you take a shot at it if given a standing broadside shot (ethics here)? What if it was a B&C? You took it legally, how would it feel that you couldn't have your name in the books because someone pushed it to you? Lets face it guys, unless you are fortunate to own and hunt thousands of sprawling acres (all by yourself), there is a good chance that the deer you see coming through the woods was pushed by another hunter. Whether by sight, sound or odor, that deer left the area it was in. This also brings into question, still hunting. I love to still hunt, but this is basically a one man deer drive. You walk through the woods until you see a deer and it provides you with a good shot. How many times have we snuck up on a bedded deer? Probably not as many times as we jumped one and it paused for a second giving us a clear shot. Legal? Absolutely. Ethical? Absolutely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great point Swampy!

Ranger

[billygoat]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

[ QUOTE ]

I can think of absolutely no reason why a drive conducted legally shouldn't be allowed in the record books. Maybe we should ban entries taken from a treestand??? We're up in trees in those things. lol

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL, I was waiting for that! Or how about, any deer shot while walking down a well beaten deer path, after all, we knew the deer would come down that path!

[arrow32]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

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I have been in a few deer drives, and have taken a few deer. I really like it when the people on the neighboring property do their drives, they chase the deer over on our property.

Wigs

[/ QUOTE ]That has worked well for me in the past also!

[/ QUOTE ]

Always a good thing when neibors do drives and push deer over on you.

[snapper]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

I see no reason why if a buck was taken legally in his or her's state...it shouldn't be in the books.

States have different laws (thats what makes this country great.) Just because one person was raised to hunt a certain way doesn't make their way the "right" way to hunt.

I know alot of folks who go out the week before the season and hang a stand and sit there "hoping" something comes through. In some folks eyes...this is more lazy that planning a safe drive. There is alot of work sometimes in driving a chunk of land and doing it correctly so that the deer don't turn back on the drivers.

Its all in how you were raised to hunt and/or think. As long as its legal...I have no problems with any buck entered in the books.

[dg]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

[ QUOTE ]

Probably going to be a touchy topic but I have to ask. Should deer drives be considered fair chase and should B&C and P&Y accept trophy entries into their records program as a result of deer drives? I can't say that I'm a fan of deer drives having been on two my entire life, one of which was successful. A well organized deer drive can easily push deer into the crosshairs of a waiting hunter. The deer have no choice. Some of the biggest bucks of all time including the Hanson Buck, Rath Buck, Raveling Buck, Pearson Buck, just to name a few, were taken with the aid of other hunters driving deer. The success rate is far higher when putting on drives. I think it takes alot fun out of hunting, not to mention adding more danger to each other. I don't think it's fair. As for B&C and P&Y accepting drive entries; I don't think they should. And I can be 100% honest; if I knew of a trophy buck on my land putting on a deer drive just to make harvesting him easier would not be part of my strategy. What do you all think?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't care if the state DNR or legislature whoever considers the practice legal, I consider it unfair. It's not right to stack the odds of rousting out a deer better than one-on-one, PERIOD. I don't look down on people who do it if it is legal. I just wouldn't do it myself.......

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

[ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of somthing. How many guys have entered the woods with a buddy and while you are going to your treestand, you see a deer your buddy accidentally bumped? Would you take a shot at it if given a standing broadside shot (ethics here)? What if it was a B&C? You took it legally, how would it feel that you couldn't have your name in the books because someone pushed it to you? Lets face it guys, unless you are fortunate to own and hunt thousands of sprawling acres (all by yourself), there is a good chance that the deer you see coming through the woods was pushed by another hunter. Whether by sight, sound or odor, that deer left the area it was in. This also brings into question, still hunting. I love to still hunt, but this is basically a one man deer drive. You walk through the woods until you see a deer and it provides you with a good shot. How many times have we snuck up on a bedded deer? Probably not as many times as we jumped one and it paused for a second giving us a clear shot. Legal? Absolutely. Ethical? Absolutely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think some of you need to read this post right here from Swampy. He hit it right on the nose The mentality I see around this thread is when it's convienent for the hunter, "driving" deer is fine

Great post Swampy

[MossySNPR]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

Still tactics to put to use and your still deer hunting. ALL SYSTEMS GO

[GWSmith]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

Unless you are the only person hunting an area...the deer are being driven, bumped, pushed, or rousted in some way shape or form by the traffic of other hunters.

If you get a deer while in a treestand in an area where other people are hunting...you not seeing the other hunters does not take away the fact that they influenced that deer to move in some way.

That is still in effect stacking the odds in the hunters favor.

I'm not hunting to be fair to deer.

[dg]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I was thinking of somthing. How many guys have entered the woods with a buddy and while you are going to your treestand, you see a deer your buddy accidentally bumped? Would you take a shot at it if given a standing broadside shot (ethics here)? What if it was a B&C? You took it legally, how would it feel that you couldn't have your name in the books because someone pushed it to you? Lets face it guys, unless you are fortunate to own and hunt thousands of sprawling acres (all by yourself), there is a good chance that the deer you see coming through the woods was pushed by another hunter. Whether by sight, sound or odor, that deer left the area it was in. This also brings into question, still hunting. I love to still hunt, but this is basically a one man deer drive. You walk through the woods until you see a deer and it provides you with a good shot. How many times have we snuck up on a bedded deer? Probably not as many times as we jumped one and it paused for a second giving us a clear shot. Legal? Absolutely. Ethical? Absolutely.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think some of you need to read this post right here from Swampy. He hit it right on the nose The mentality I see around this thread is when it's convienent for the hunter, "driving" deer is fine

Great post Swampy

[/ QUOTE ]

No I don't need to read it. I hunt alone. How has your hunting success been this year?

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

Fantastic thanks for asking, I'm touched. See that 's why I like these forums so much, the members really care! How has yours been?

[dg]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

[ QUOTE ]

Fantastic thanks for asking, I'm touched. See that 's why I like these forums so much, the members really care! How has yours been?

[/ QUOTE ]

I stuck a doe and a 12" spread 8 point. Nothing to brag about. And also let many more walk than most will see. And yours?

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

Well "DG", I was doing alot of "Marine" things this year and being that the workload prevented me from too much hunting this year, I didn't strike it rich. However I was not disappointed. I needed a year off from cleaning and buchering my own deer. The last 3 years between hunting the farm in PA and hunting at Cherry Point, NC I shot enough deer to last me about 8 years so this year was no loss. 6 deer in '04. 4 in "03 and '02. I also let alot of deer go in NC last year because I knew I was moving. In NC, I could of very easily filled all 6 tags last year. But I knew I had 4 in PA to fill as well.

I hunt alone sometimes as well but at sometime during your hunting career, you will hunt with someone and that statement that Swampy said will be true.

Again, thanks for your concern. I appreciate it. Shows your character as a Realtree Forum member. God I love this site. Good luck next season. Maybe next year you'll get something big enough to put on your wall. I will be praying for you!

[Strut10]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

Drives are absolutely fair chase. It's a darn sight harder to put a bullet or arrow into a P&Y or B&C buck sneaking or running off a drive than it is to do it over a foodplot from a box-blind while he's completely dumb and unaware.

[dg]

Re: Drives=Fair Chase?

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I hunt alone sometimes as well but at sometime during your hunting career, you will hunt with someone and that statement that Swampy said will be true.

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No it won't. I don't hunt on drives.