Texan_Til_I_Die Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 On Nov. 8, 2005 a Schleicher County Game Warden received a call from a landowner agent informing him that one of his hunting clients had taken a white-tailed buck without consent. Upon investigation it was determined the out-of-state hunter was being guided by the agent and wanted to shoot a buck they had seen. The guide opposed and told him repeatedly not to shoot the deer because it was not a mature buck. The hunter stated he did not care and he was going to shoot it anyway. When interviewed about the incident, the hunter stated he did not know why he shot the deer and offered to pay for it. The landowner was adamant about charges being filed, so the county attorney was contacted and the case reviewed. State jail felony charges of take wildlife resource, white-tailed deer, without consent of the landowner were filed. The subject was arrested, bond set, and placed in jail. Restitution on the 120-class buck is also pending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whttlbucksteve Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! I bet he wont shot the next deer he is told not to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! Geez, thats nuts! NEVERMIND GATOR! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! [ QUOTE ] Geez, thats nuts! Next time when he tells his kid NO and he keeps doing it. He better not spank his son! [/ QUOTE ] HUH????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! Most places around here have a 130 or 140" minumim.If a hunter shoots a smaller buck he pays the outfitter a penalty fee of a couple hundred dollars and most places won't let them come back. Sounds like this guide should have had something like that in place. I don't agree that he should be in jail if he wasn't tresspasing or poaching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyt03 Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! A mature deer or not, if he paid his money to hunt the place and has a tag to legally take a buck he should be allowed to take any buck he chooses, he paid for it. Why would the guides care. whats the difference in taking a mature buck now, or taking a 120 class deer that in a few years will be a mature deer. Its only a deer, whats the name of the outfitters I'll make sure not to go there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrow32 Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! Thats wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonTypicalDeerHunter Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! bummer that does suck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tennswamper Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! What some are failing to realize is the fact that most outfitters in TX are on management programs which only allows hunters to take "mature" deer. That being said, if the idiot wanted to kill a small buck and pay for the hunt, I'd let him. He is surely an idiot for shooting a 120" deer in Texas. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! i would be willing to bet the hunter thought because im paying for this hunt i can take what i want too, the guide is trying to run a buisness, and the hunter needs to understand that. Now with that being said whos to say that the guide would get him on a 140 class deer and maybe the hunter thought he would go home with nothing and still have to pay for the hunt. I dont see how the state can enforce this law of mature hunting when the hunter has paid for the licence, and the right to hunt on the property of the guide i would think he would have to sue him in court for damages and i dont see how the state can press charges??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest brl Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! a 120 buck is still respectable up here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! [ QUOTE ] A mature deer or not, if he paid his money to hunt the place and has a tag to legally take a buck he should be allowed to take any buck he chooses, he paid for it. Why would the guides care. whats the difference in taking a mature buck now, or taking a 120 class deer that in a few years will be a mature deer. Its only a deer, whats the name of the outfitters I'll make sure not to go there. [/ QUOTE ] 1. If you are hunting on private land and the owner says not to shoot a specific deer, then you don't have permission to hunt that deer. Plain and simple. 2. These people make a living off successful trophy game animals. They know what a trophy is because theysee them every day. When you shoot an animal that's not a managment buck and not at it's full potential you are destroying a potential trophy animal that will make that person or company more money in the future. Thus you are destroying thier investment and potential future profit. I don't know if this particular ranch does this, but some charge by the size of the rack. If this was an immature 10pt that scored 120 and thier minimum is a mature 130 class 8pt. at $1500, who's to say this buck wouldn't be a 160-180 inch more 2 years down the line? This buck may have made them $3-$4K more when it's matured. If you look at it from the buisness point of veiw and potential earnings, you can understand why they pressed charges. But, how many of this guys buddies will never hunt that ranch? And what is thier profit loss from that end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! The outfitter prob. didn't want the buck shot because it maybe a 180 class deer in a few years which means more $ in his pocket. I don't think jail is the right thing for this...however, I'm sure the guy was told BEFORE he booked his hunt what was expected of him. I'm also sure they prob. discussed size of bucks to harvest. He paid the money with that in mind...shot a buck that he was told not to shoot...the hunter was wrong! As far as going home empty handed...thats part of hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! I agree that the hunter was in the wrong,but I'm sure that's not the first time that something like this has happened.They should have had a penalty fee in place,of say $1000 if they shoot a smaller buck,like most Illinois outfitters.Sounds like poor judgemant by the hunter,and poor planning by the outfitter.I could see the hunter paying a fine or something,but going to jail and being charged with a felony seems extreme to me. There may be more to this story that we don't know about too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoyt_hunter Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! wow, what a crazy sentence. Im with the guide though on this what. Like many have said before me, he's probably trying to run a managment program and wants only BIG deer taken. The hunter needs to realize that the guide is doing his job and will probably put him on a larger deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thayer Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! I guess $500.00 and inch under the minimum would not have worked for the ranch. If the guide said shoot that one and it ended up under the minimum..then no payment...if he tells you no and you shoot him...the ranch gets their potential money by your stupidity of not listening. Most ranches have a 130" min. Would you want to pay $5000.00 plus your other expenses for a 120" class deer??...sounds like a poorly operated ranch. Should have had their ducks in a row before letting stupid rich people hunt on the property. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USAFbowhunter Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! Federal Law Title I prohibits dealers from selling any firearm or ammunition to any person who is convicted of or under indictment for a felony so the hunter won't be hunting anymore unless it is with a bow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! [ QUOTE ] ....If the guide said shoot that one and it ended up under the minimum..then no payment...if he tells you no and you shoot him...the ranch gets their potential money by your stupidity of not listening.... [/ QUOTE ] Yes means "If the Buck makes the minimum or not...Your Good...Either Way" No means "Are You Willing To Pay Through The Nose"? IMO...When the ranch had the opportunity to take the mans money they should have said: "Pay Up...or...GrayBar Hotel"!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! It had better been a high fence deer farm. Other wise, the deer are still states property, not the landowners. If the animals are free range, there is little they can do. How can the state file felony charges when no state law was broken? He had a contract with the outfitter. A good lawyer will get him off as he should. This is BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! no means no, I guess this was a classic case of "Buck Fever" Maybe the guy never seen a 120" deer before and to him it was a 160" buck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! He should be able to shoot it if he wants. I wonder how far into the hunt he was? If it were last day espicially, I say he should be able to shott anything for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirage Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! [ QUOTE ] It had better been a high fence deer farm. Other wise, the deer are still states property, not the landowners. If the animals are free range, there is little they can do. How can the state file felony charges when no state law was broken? He had a contract with the outfitter. A good lawyer will get him off as he should. This is BS. [/ QUOTE ] I agree if it is free range deer what makes the landowner the sole owner of the said deer. I just dont see how the state can press charges in this instance. I can see damages to the guide but not criminal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted January 19, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! OK - Time to tie up a few loose ends. First, if there's any more to the story I don't have it. That info was copied verbatim from the Texas Parks and Wildlife Department's web site. Second, all deer in Texas do belong to the state, even those behind a high fence UNLESS it's a breeder (deer farm) operation. It takes some special licensing to become a breeder and they usually don't conduct hunts in their breeding areas. Third, you absolutely need the landowner or his agent's permission to shoot a deer on private property. Usually blanket permission is given to shoot any deer, but not always. So there is little or no arguement that the guy is guilty. Fourth, a State Jail Felony doesn't necessarily mean he's going to jail. It is a felony, but most likely if he's a first offender he'll get a hefty fine and possibly some probation. He might even be able to plea bargain it down to some type of misdemeaner. The "restitution" is payment to the state for illegally taking the deer. That amount is based on the size of the deer. And lastly, how stupid are you to shoot a deer when your guide is right beside you frantically whispering "No, don't shoot!" in your ear??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2500HD Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! Didn't he get the landowners permission when he forked over the $$$ to hunt that land? If the out fit had posted rules for taking lesser animals then the guy had to agree to that before the hunt. If rules and fines were set then they should apply. If nothing was in writing I find it hard to believe that there was any "illegal" activity just bad judgement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted January 19, 2006 Report Share Posted January 19, 2006 Re: If the Guide Says NO, He Means NO! I am so glad that I DO NOT have to hunt in Texas. I truly am. If this is what hunitng is like in Texas than I'd rather hang up the stuff then have any part of it. Man I totally sympathize with the hunter, he shelled out good money, likely more money than he should have to shoot a deer, a wild animal, not one owned by anybody. Yeah, Yeah, he was told not to, I know but come on, why should he not be able to shoot any deer he chooses. This management is getting absolutely rediculous in places. Are these deer or are they cattle we are saving until they are absolutely prime for the beef market. I can understand encouraging a hunter to wait for a mature animal but preventing him from shooting a deer when he paid that money to do just that. I already had somewhat of an opinion of hunting ranches down in texas and the way hunting is there, I'll tell you what....I think even less of the guys running the show now. It's deer hunting for God's sake. whatever happened to deer hunting. Man, that guy should have came to Canada where he could shoot a 300lber or any dinky little buck he felt like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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