Gator Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 What's everyone's thought on this? Here is mine. We live in changing times, there are people out there that want to kill is anyway possible. If the govt feels the need to listen in to cell phone conversations, so be it. I for one have nothing to hide, so let'em listen all they want. The President said it best the other day, saying that his #1 job is to protect the United States of America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchies Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping I agree with you gator but I also think that people the government could read the wrong things out of people on the phone joking around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] I for one have nothing to hide, so let'em listen all they want. [/ QUOTE ] Me too!!! I could care less!!! Although the Libs and Dems are freaking over this! Sounds like they might have something to hide! LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted January 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] I agree with you gator but I also think that people the government could read the wrong things out of people on the phone joking around. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, that's true to, but I would venture to guess that the govt would do some kinda background investigation either before listening, or even after hearing something to know for sure whether what they heard was in fact viable or bs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping So wheres it supposed to stop then?Their wiretaps seem to be a hot topic right now as to weather they were legal or not. Theyre pouring through our internet records right now, at least from the search engines that turned the records over. Listening in on cell phone calls would be the next logical step I suppose.Then home invasions without warrants would logicaly follow I suppose.Im only half joking about that.I guesse I dont need to be made to feel safe that badly.The odds of of the terrorist targeting me for an attack are astronomical.The odds of the government taking something outta context or getting something screwed up in thier computer and labeling me as a suspected terrorist are much greater IMO.Except the terrorists move on when theyre done, the government will hound you forever.Im not willing to give up any more rights for that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
okbowman Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping There has to be some criteria for what they can use that they hear on these wiretaps! You could even make the argument that if they outlaw guns, you could be in trouble and be a target for this if they suspect you had guns in your home, you would then be a "terrorist". That said, I support them listening to phone calls to or from anyone suspected to be in cahoots with Al Queda! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping I've got nothing to hide. If they want to hear about my 3d shoot or latest hunting escapade with my GA buddy, SO BE IT! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] I for one have nothing to hide, so let'em listen all they want. [/ QUOTE ] Exactly. They aren't going to be looking for little comments made by citizens and calling them on it. GEESH, do you realize how much man-power, money, and time that would take. They are looking for the obvious stuff, not Joe citizen, making some snide comment about the government, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] So wheres it supposed to stop then?Their wiretaps seem to be a hot topic right now as to weather they were legal or not. Theyre pouring through our internet records right now, at least from the search engines that turned the records over. Listening in on cell phone calls would be the next logical step I suppose.Then home invasions without warrants would logicaly follow I suppose.Im only half joking about that.I guesse I dont need to be made to feel safe that badly.The odds of of the terrorist targeting me for an attack are astronomical.The odds of the government taking something outta context or getting something screwed up in thier computer and labeling me as a suspected terrorist are much greater IMO.Except the terrorists move on when theyre done, the government will hound you forever.Im not willing to give up any more rights for that . [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Now what was that quote from Ben Franklin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So wheres it supposed to stop then?Their wiretaps seem to be a hot topic right now as to weather they were legal or not. Theyre pouring through our internet records right now, at least from the search engines that turned the records over. Listening in on cell phone calls would be the next logical step I suppose.Then home invasions without warrants would logicaly follow I suppose.Im only half joking about that.I guesse I dont need to be made to feel safe that badly.The odds of of the terrorist targeting me for an attack are astronomical.The odds of the government taking something outta context or getting something screwed up in thier computer and labeling me as a suspected terrorist are much greater IMO.Except the terrorists move on when theyre done, the government will hound you forever.Im not willing to give up any more rights for that . [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Now what was that quote from Ben Franklin? [/ QUOTE ] "Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve NEITHER!!!" (emphasis mine) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping I also have nothing to hide, but that is most certainly not the point. The constitution guarantees the right for citizens to be free from unreasonable search and seizure. I am currently taking a class called "Terrorism and the Homeland Security Response," now I have tons of reading and research to do for this class, lets say I have to research a specific WMD and write about it, technical stuff, I go on the internet and do all types of research, well, since the government wants to know who has been looking at those sites, I am now on a watch list because I have been researching how to make a WMD. The same goes for telephone conversations, who is to say that the wiretaps have only been used to monitor terrorists. There is too much leeway for misuse of the information they receive during the wiretaps. Whats the old saying "give em an inch and they'll take a foot?" Like I said, I have nothing to hide, but why should I be apprehensive about anything I say on the phone or type in e-mail because big brother is watching. That is not security, that is a police state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AllArmyoutdoorsSD Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping I am no expert, But I imagine that the Govt has specific criteria, or profile of certain targets that are being watched. I have a hard time believing that the entire country is being listened to. I know in the past presidents have made the call to take drastic measures in order to maintain control in their country. IMO wire tapping isn't something that I would stress out about, if you ask me it is just another political ploy to place the focus of the American people away from anything that might actualy make the President look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted January 26, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping So for all against the wire taps or eavesdropping, whatever you call it, IF, and I mean IF, 1 phone conversation could possibly prevent something along the lines of 9-11, you would still be against that practice? Like a couple of others have said, I am sure there is a "profile" of people that they will want to monitor, not just some Joe Citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping The main problem is that the administration circumvented the law to utilize these wiretaps. As we all know, even the president is not above the law as proven with the Lewinsky and Watergate scandals. If there are specific targets then get the required authorization. Just because you are the president doesn't mean you should be able to order wiretaps on US citizens without sufficient cause. Besides, what would blanket wiretapping serve, it would create too much work for our government, who knows how long it would take to sort through it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping What seems to be missing from this discussion is the very pertinent fact that all of these wiretaps are on SUSPECTED terrorists or their supporters. These people have already done something to trigger suspicion, or they wouldn't be getting tapped to start with. And, to the best of my knowledge, in the vast majority of these cases at least one side of the conversation is originating from a foreign country. These are not just random taps from a government that's out trolling for information. Makes a big difference in my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeStandBowHunter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping This is the problem. Your Dems are mostly againt it and the Republicans are mostly for it. I think it's good that they do it. Obviously they are tapping certain people for a reason. And no, I don't think ALL "People" that live in "America" should have rights. So I guess if Mr. Akbar moves over here to plot the next attack, we can't tap his phone line or whatever because he is in America and should have rights? Slugo, come on man. This is how attacks happen. Don't worry Slugo, a Dem will win the next election and we will have our attacks AGAIN because the Dems were worried about everybody's freedom that lives here in America! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping So your all are in favor of war to liberate the people of Iraq while at the same time you have no problem with the same government taking away your freedoms?We got guys dying over there so they can have a democratic government but cant even gaurantee the people in our country the same rights?Where the logic here guys?Everyone in heres constantly complaining about the antis and the liberals trying to take away theyre right to bear arms but youre willing to roll over and give up any of your other rights on the very, very, minimal chance a terrorist attack could be averted from it?Because thats what it boils down to, its just a crap shoot and theyd have to be listening to just the right phone at just the right time. They have some criteria for this you say?Then explain why theyre trying to pull all the info they can get from every search engine on the internet to look for key words/phrases?Personally I dont think all the men and women whove died serving this country died so we could have wiretaps and random house searches like the Soviet Union.I also wasnt aware the Constitution was a put and take deal where you could decide which parts you liked and disregard the rest.Having nothing to hide isnt the point, or at least it shouldnt be.You know whats worse then terrorists, a government thats got to much power and isnt afraid to abuse it.We keep giving things up and thats basically what were creating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] What seems to be missing from this discussion is the very pertinent fact that all of these wiretaps are on SUSPECTED terrorists or their supporters. These people have already done something to trigger suspicion, or they wouldn't be getting tapped to start with. And, to the best of my knowledge, in the vast majority of these cases at least one side of the conversation is originating from a foreign country. These are not just random taps from a government that's out trolling for information. Makes a big difference in my mind. [/ QUOTE ] This is the key. Joe Bob Redneck (any of us) have nothing to worry about and will most likely never be adversly affected by it. While Amar Kleifglafa or whatever studying micro biology and spending a lot of alone time with his middle easter buddies probibly should be careful what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping Lets not also forget that the government can also open your snail mail. There was a story about that a couple of weeks ago about an American who has a friend in the Philippines. His mail was opened because the Philippines is primarily a muslim country and there might have been something "bad" in there. The government is reaching here people, and Mike, it isn't a Democrat or Republican thing, if anything, this issue needs to be a non-partisan issue because all Americans civil liberties are at stake. What I find interesting is that the conservatives will defend the presidents actions regarding eavesdropping, wiretapping, internet search records, etc. etc. etc. BECAUSE we are at "war", but when the issue is human rights for detainees held in our facilities under the American flag, well, we aren't really at war, the Geneva Conventions don't apply. We are at war but not really at war? There needs to be a little bit of consistency here. Either we live in a police state where our actions are scrutinized and we have to look over our shoulder and watch what we say and what we type and prisoners can be held without trial for "x" number of years with no oversight. Or we can live free from oppression, be safe in our homes and jobs from unreasonable search and seizure and illegal wiretaps and know that the people we hold in prison are being treated fairly and with just cause. Maybe the government hasn't eavesdropped on me, and looked up what I type in a search engine, or opened my mail. But under the current guidelines, who is to say they will not in the future. The issue is whether or not I have anything to hide, the issue is that as an American citizen, I am supposed to be free from that type of search without probable cause. Sometimes I get the feeling that many on here think that our government is some all encompassing compassionate entity that has no flaws and is above reproach. Our government is dirty, regardless of political affiliation, and they will stop at nothing to get what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping Here's a quote from my professor in my "Research Methods in Political Science" course I am in currently. His name is Dr. Frank Trapp, he is a veteran of the Marines, a conservative, and has been involved in numerous overseas jobs involving national security and international relations. "I am a big believer in the war on terror, but I am vehemently opposed to the government subpoeanaing internet search records." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] So your all are in favor of war to liberate the people of Iraq while at the same time you have no problem with the same government taking away your freedoms? [/ QUOTE ] I support the war in Iraq because I believe it helps in the overall War on Terror. The fact that it liberated several million people from a brutal dictator is just a bonus. And just which freedom(s) have I lost? I guess I'm no longer free to use the telephone to plot an attack against U.S. citizens, but somehow I don't think I'll miss that very much. Again folks, this isn't your local police trying to catch you selling a dime bag to your buddy. It's the NSA (that's spies in plain English) trying to stop a terrorist attack on our nation. [ QUOTE ] They have some criteria for this you say?Then explain why theyre trying to pull all the info they can get from every search engine on the internet to look for key words/phrases? [/ QUOTE ] Because the bad guys are fond of using email and chat boards as a means of communication too. And, you should have NO expectation of privacy for anything you do on the Internet. If you do, you're totally deceiving yourself. [ QUOTE ] Personally I dont think all the men and women whove died serving this country died so we could have wiretaps and random house searches like the Soviet Union. [/ QUOTE ] Nothing random about it. Our intelligence services have very specific targets in mind and they're going after them. [ QUOTE ] I also wasnt aware the Constitution was a put and take deal where you could decide which parts you liked and disregard the rest. [/ QUOTE ] Why not, (I'm being facetious here) the Supreme Court did that exact thing in 1972 with their decision in Roe vs. Wade? Seriously though, I think everything that's happening right now is clearly sanctioned under the War Powers Act and the Joint Resolution passed by Congress on September 14, 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Andrea Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping Eavesdrop all they want. I am all for it. I thought they were doing it all along anyway. I saw a report about this on the news. There's a gigantic computer somewhere that can listen for certain phrases and words.......it picks them up, traces the call, and then re-listens to the entire conversation. If it turns out to be a couple of good old boys from Kentucky re-hashing what they saw on the news that night...then nothing. If it turns out to be 2 Muslim extremists talking about their next terrorist attack..then they will move in on them. Fine by me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping [ QUOTE ] I saw a report about this on the news. There's a gigantic computer somewhere that can listen for certain phrases and words.......it picks them up, traces the call, and then re-listens to the entire conversation. If it turns out to be a couple of good old boys from Kentucky re-hashing what they saw on the news that night...then nothing. If it turns out to be 2 Muslim extremists talking about their next terrorist attack..then they will move in on them. Fine by me. [/ QUOTE ] It's at the NSA HQ in Fort Meade, MD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted January 26, 2006 Report Share Posted January 26, 2006 Re: Govt Eavesdropping Last thing Ive got to say on the issue.If were giving up our rights to privacy because of the acts of a bunch of fanatics then we already lost, cuz thats exactly what they want us to do.If you honestly believe this is the answer, quit crying about em trying to take your guns, after all, its to make you safer.If its ok to take this right away, dont expect any of them to be safe.And unfourtanately I think some of you are letting politcal lines form your opinion on this, if it was the former Clinton administration trying to push something like this through a lotta you guys woulda been yelling the loudest.Seriously, im afraid im gonna have to take any future statements you guys make about the constitution, the right to bear arms, or any other rights with a grain of salt cuz I know under the right circumstances youd roll over and give em all up now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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