Future of WSMs?

[elnor]

Any thoughts on how the impending closure of the Winchester firearms plant may affect the future of 300 WSM and the other WSM calibers?

I bought a Model 70 in 300 WSM last year and have really loved shooting and hunting with it. This latest sad news about the end of Model 70s, though, has got me wondering how loosely, or closely, tied the success of WSMs might be to Winchester firearms(?).

I'm hopeful that the fairly long list of other gun makers chambering WSMs (Browning, Kimber, Sako, I believe Weatherby and several others) will keep the WSM flame alive.

Wondering if I should have gone for the 300 Rem SAUM instead...

[Guest Mathews4]

Re: Future of WSMs?

i also have a model 70 300WSM (super shadow design)....i to love hunting with mine....but the WSM's are way to popular to disappear with the model 70.

[AJ]

Re: Future of WSMs?

The WSM line of cartridges are fairly popular so I think they are safe for a while. Olin is separate from US Repeating Arms, so it means little. Other manufacturers like Browning, Kimber, Savage, Remington, Ruger, Sako, Weatherby, and others are making guns chambered for the WSM cartridges, so the deletion of USRA is really a drop in the bucket.

[okbowman]

Re: Future of WSMs?

The way I understood the article is that they are not discontinuing the model 70's. They are only closing plants here in the USA that make the lever action guns. I think the model 70's will still be manufactured, just not here in the USA. As far as the WSM's go, they are really hot now, but I think the excitement will slow down over the next few years. The old standard rounds are still really effective for what almost all of us would ever need for hunting.

[elnor]

Re: Future of WSMs?

Thanks for everyone's takes on this.

okbowman, I'm basing my take on this from a Washington Post article on the closing which says that Winchester lever actions, Model 70s, and Model 1300 shotguns will all cease being manufactured.

See: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/19/AR2006011903278.html

[tped]

Re: Future of WSMs?

My pesonal opinion is that the future of WSM's lies in the hands of Rick Jamison. His settlement of the patent infringement suit he had against Winchester and Browning will hopefully be enough. Since the case was never tried in court one must assume the legitimacy of his patents as they have not been voided or ruled against. I would think if he now tries to take on Olin or any other ammunition manufacturer or any other gun manufacturer to claim compensation you may very well see them disappear. If I were the President of any of these gun manufacturers I would simply discontinue production of those cartridges before I paid him a royoalty on every gun or bullet I built. The gun industry survived for many many years with WSM and could survive another 100+ if it had too.

[AJ]

Re: Future of WSMs?

I seriously doubt that Rick Jamison will have any thing to do with the future of the WSM line of cartridges. While he is one of the very few good gun writers, he did not create the first short fat cartridge and I don't think he pattened his cartridge. So he has nothing to whine about. One of the first was the Gradle Express series that was based on the .348 WCF case with the rim turned down to a rimless design. Case capacity was slightly more for any given caliber than might be available from a wildcatted .404 Jeffery case, for example, that is cut back to 2.1 inches. Of course, there have been a variety of attempts to wildcat the .404 Jeffery case in long, medium and short versions over the years. One of the most popular was known as the G&A line. These were all before RJ was making his .300 Jamison.

Until its submitted to SAAMI and commercialized, its just a wildcat. These days, if you think of a wildcat, chances are its already been done.

[tped]

Re: Future of WSMs?

AJ - I beg to differ with you - he did obtain patents and brought suit against both Winchester and Browning. In early January - the parties agreed to a settlement and the court proceeding records and settlement info were sealed. I'm sure that Winchester had other problems but a mere coincidence that they decided to shut down operations within a couple weeks of the settlement. Supposedly Browning and Winchester had prior authoritative proof of these designs prior to Jamison but no one ever tried to patent them. Jamison did and was awarded the patents. Check out some threads at Shortmags.org & accuratereloading.com there are actually links to the patent info.

[tped]

Re: Future of WSMs?

I wasn't 100% accurate. His patent is vague in that it patented the characteristics to the WSM cartridges but did not specifically call them that. Browning was prepared to use all the things that AJ mentioned and a few more to dis-allow the patents as it not being a novel idea. The thing that makes you wonder is why did Winchester/Browning settle if they were to know that they had a solid case to overturn the patents. With the settlement sealed no one knows what Jamison actually got could have been $10 or $1mil or whatever. We will probably never know but if he feels he won that case with the settlement only his own greed would preclude him from taking on anyone chambering a gun in WSM or making the ammo for that matter. Will be interesting to follow in the next few months though.