slugshooter Posted February 2, 2006 Report Share Posted February 2, 2006 A popular topic on here as of late has been the level of intrusion the government should be allowed or has taken in our lives. I was thinking today about some hot button issues that have been taking place in this room and also in the lounge. It seems to me that each one of us is willing to allow the government to have some form of intrusion in our lives while a few others don't feel the need for any government at all. So I guess my question is what should we question or fight against as far as the government is involved. Here is a rundown of some current issues I have read about on these forums. Corporal Punishment in Schools- Some feel that it should be OK to spank our children in public schools while others do not. I for one am against this practice because disciplining children should be the role of the parents. If the parents aren't doing this then it is on them. If the child is a constant disruption, there is the possibility of detention/suspension/expulsion and if the child is especially violent the authorities need to be involved. I think there is too much of a possibility for a school administrator to take it too far and also the schools have to take into account potential legal action. What happens if a child is seriusly injured? Government Eavesdropping- While I agree that we are in a time of "war" so to speak. Not necessarily a conventional war that has occurred throughout history. While the government insists that the federal wiretapping that has been going on is legal, any law that has been passed that has been in direct conflict with the constitution has been declared illegal. The constitution does not say that we shall be free from unreasonable search and seizure and no warrants shall issue except on probable cause; unless in times of war. Like was said in earlier posts on this subject, what is to prevent the government from expanding their reach to non terrorist entities and use this for political gain. Richard Nixon ordered a break in of the DNC to gain their campaign strategies. What is to stop the RNC from tapping the phones of their rivals in order to gain an advantage. I just feel that there is too much leeway for this to be misused. I hope that they only stick to terrorists and use the info they receive for good. But if they had obtained warrants, it still would have been kept secret. What constitutes "unreasonable search and seizure" and what constitutes "probable cause?" Should the government be allowed to invade privacy based on "reasonable suspicion?" Gun registration- There are positives to this and one far out negative. If there is a national gun registration and your guns are stolen and used in a crime, as long as it has been reported it will not come back on the gun owner. In the remote possibility that the 2nd Amendment has been repealed, yes, the government will have a listing of who owns what in the country, but, the government has so much bureaucratic red tape going on that they probably wouldn't even bother trying to enforce the law. Prayer in Schools- I don't know a public school in the country that has outlawed prayer. As long as it doesn't disrupt a class or the workings of the school day kids can pray whenever they want. It is also not the public schools job to make kids pray, or to teach them bible stories. That is the job of the parents/churches if they so choose. Here is the potential problem, not every teacher is a Christian and those that are are not of the same denomination. So, here we have non-Christian teachers being forced to make their students pray to a God they may or may not believe in and then we have Christian teachers of different denominations teaching their interpretation of the bible and their beliefs. Either way, there are going to be angry parents on both sides of the debate....and a lot of confused kids worrying about religous matters in school when they should be focusing on reading, writing, math and other subjects. Government sponsored religion- While I agree that many of the founding fathers were Christian in a sense that they believed in God and Christ, that doesn't necessarily mean that they felt God should be included in every aspect of government. There is a big difference in a group of adults meeting voluntarily in a House or Senate chamber for a morning prayer where they can choose to be there or not vs. a group of kids in a classroom who are forced to be there. Look at the governments around the world that are basically theorcracies, Iran being one. Firstly. the president of Iran, Admenijab or whatever his name is, is merely a puppet, a fiery voice who can stir the masses. Iran is run by the Ayatollahs who can dismiss him at any time they want if he doesn't do what they say. Not very democratic is it. Iraq is a powderkeg waiting to explode because their new democratic government is made up of clashing religous beliefs. Do I feel it wrong for politicians to pronounce their religous beliefs and pray for direction, absolutely not. I pray for direction every day, but when the government begins to dictate who should believe what, then a theocracy has been formed, and that is exactly what our ancestors came over here to get away from. Business Issues- Should the government have a right to dictate what a business can and cannot do? In some instances I believe yes. As long as it doesn't interfere with the ability of the business to make money, because if they can't make money, whats the point of forming a business. I believe employers should have the responsibility to take care of their employees to a certain extent and not take advantage/exploit their workers. Not everyone is going to make 50K or more a year, But I have heard conflicting comments from more than one person on here as far as low wages are concerned. People are chastised for working in a low wage job because they obviously have no direction in life and no desire to better themselves, but in the same turn it has been said that the world needs people in those low wage jobs. What is an old movie line I heard "The world needs ditch diggers too." So, if a persons destiny in this world is to be a ditch digger or a whopper flopper, no amount of training or education is going to lift him/her out of that am I right? There is a fine balance in all of these issues. Just making some observations as to some of the issues that have been discussed on here. Feel free to chime in as you wish. I promise I won't intrude, but the government might. I guess the underlying question though is how much should the government intrude in our lives, or should they at all? 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jdickey Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Government Intrusion Slugshooter.... you've got a lot out here on the table to discuss, and hopefully it will develop into an "semi-intelligent" discussion! I think that much of what you have presented here really hits the nail on the head, but there are a few statements that could use a little "adjusting". Unfortunately, I'm not going to have enough time to "help" with the adjustments! But I will say, the door to GOVERNMENT INTRUSION was kicked wide open by President Franklin Roosevelt, and it will never get to close to being closed again! Additionally, that since that time of FDR, Americans want more and more of the government aid and assistance, but not the strings attached that goes with them. We want the government to cure all our ills, fix all our problems, and keep us happy.....! Anyway... gotta go... but maybe you can get the gist of where I'm going here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Government Intrusion I don’t disagree with everything you said. Corporal Punishment in Schools - Fine with me. In fact, I think it should be required. The courts have long held to the Latin term “in loco parentis” when deciding issues related to schools – which loosely translates to “in place of the parents.” When children are in school the school serves as the parents. When I was growing up corporal punishment in school was acceptable and meant I got it twice as bad at home. Made me think about what I was fixing to do. More than once I felt the corrective measures of double jeopardy. As for misuse – it has happened. But, there are both civil and criminal remedies for abuse and misuse. Government Eavesdropping – I really don’t have a problem with registration. My problem will come when they say the 2nd Amendment has been repealed. Will they know I have the guns? Yes. Will they get them? No. Gun registration – I really don’t have a problem with registration. Will the government know I have the guns? Yes. Will they get them if the 2nd Amendment is repealed? No. Prayer in Schools – I believe prayer in school should be allowed. Should a child be required to pray? No. They can refuse to participate. They can step from the classroom while those who wish to do so. But, to say one can’t because others might be offended is the one offended is forcing his/her wish not to on those that do. Is that any different than the ones that want to forcing their desire to do so on those who don’t? Additionally, “in loco parentis.” Government sponsored religion – Not an issue. We don’t have government sponsored religion. Every citizen is allowed to worship as they desire to – or not. President Bush reiterated this in his State of the Union the other night. Business Issues – Throughout our history businesses (not all) have shown a propensity for operating outside what is considered reasonable and acceptable. Those that do should be held accountable. Those that don’t should be left alone. In other words, there should be minimal regulations (government control) to assure businesses are operating acceptably. However, government (taxpayers) should not have to make up for a business’ failure to provide for its employees for not providing adequate wages or health insurance. jdickey – you’re right there. SOME Americans want government aid and assistance without strings attached. If I’m expected to provide for those who won’t, or can’t, take care of themselves then I want some strings attached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted February 3, 2006 Report Share Posted February 3, 2006 Re: Government Intrusion [ QUOTE ] Corporal Punishment in Schools- Some feel that it should be OK to spank our children in public schools while others do not. I for one am against this practice because disciplining children should be the role of the parents. If the parents aren't doing this then it is on them. If the child is a constant disruption, there is the possibility of detention/suspension/expulsion and if the child is especially violent the authorities need to be involved. I think there is too much of a possibility for a school administrator to take it too far and also the schools have to take into account potential legal action. What happens if a child is seriusly injured? [/ QUOTE ] Did you know that there is actually a uniform size for a paddle. It's insures contact on maximum area this should give maximum affect while not doing any real harm. I've actually had other teachers paddle me since I started teaching. (I've been bad ) Really just to see what it felt like. I was a good kid and never got paddled. When I got pattled it stung like fire for about 15 minutes, and I could still feel it for about 3 hours. No bruising occured, but I didn't want any more of it. That's the whole point of courpral punishment. PAIN IS A GOOD DETERENT FOR MOST KIDS!!, but not all of them. One of the guys at school ws in trouble constantly and getting licks every other day. The football coach finally got tired of him missing practice for after school Det. and sent him home Friday night and wouldn't even let him come to the game. (he was one of the best players on the team). He cried like a baby, and I don't think he got in trouble for the rest of the year. Kids respond in all different ways to different punishment. I had a girl write sentences once for punishment and she loved it, while most absolutely hate it. I've made kids eat thier lunch with me for punishment only to have them come back for a month straight just to visist, while others have sat staring into space and not eating a bite. Personally, I was scared to death of getting paddled in school, so I did my best not to get in trouble. The point is sluggo, when courpral punishment is done correctly it does no physical harm, and is a good enough deterant to keep a lot of kids from doing things they shouldn't. Any time a person does something right or makes the decision not to do something wrong they are forming patterns in their lives. If using courpral punishment helps kids to make those decisions, then it works. When it doesn't work, we have to do something else. As for suspention and expulsion, Have you taken time and thought that this is the goal of some students. One of the biggest punishments that I've done to kids is purposely not sending them to the office and MAKING them do what I tell them. MY WILL WILL PREVALE (most of the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowJoe Posted February 4, 2006 Report Share Posted February 4, 2006 Re: Government Intrusion The last time I checked, gun registration is not a big topic right now and I don't see too much being done with the whole prayer in school issue either. Not to say that some are ever gonna drop it but I think like most hot button issues that some are fads that come and go with what the next elected official does or does not bring up in a speech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted February 5, 2006 Report Share Posted February 5, 2006 Re: Government Intrusion "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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