PAbowhunter86 Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Guns are they better than what they were years ago? In my opinion no! The technology is great and all but I walk into a gun store and see the same guns. They all look the same. What ever happen to the in graving a detailed emblem on the gun or using different stains to give the wood stock a different look. Today's guns do have the advances, but I would like to see more work put into the detail instead of trying to make the gun easy to produce. That my opinion tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchies Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? Engraving costs more. With more technology in the guns you buy today they have to keep the costs down somehow. There are still gun companies that do engraving but as for the practical hunter most don't care what it looks like compared to how it performs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huntinsonovagun Posted March 7, 2006 Report Share Posted March 7, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? I said no. Take a look at the Remington 870's....no where near what they used to be. Some things are better, sure, but I feel like everyone is trying to take the cheaper route to production.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? I think it all depends on how much ya wanna spend. If you want fancy and detailed its gonna cost more. Are they better now or not. No and yes. No since its has become a how many can we pump out. Yes for the better materails and quality when you do pay for it. JMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAbowhunter86 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? [ QUOTE ] Engraving costs more. With more technology in the guns you buy today they have to keep the costs down somehow. There are still gun companies that do engraving but as for the practical hunter most don't care what it looks like compared to how it performs. [/ QUOTE ]engraving does not cost all that much more. it is all done with CNC machinces and it is pretty fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? This is really a harder question to answer than some may think. I may be in the minority with my opinion but I would have to answer yes and no. I have an old Remington Model 514 that is a real tack driver and the stock is superb. I bought this rifle in 1962 for about $20. I have a new Savage and two new Stevens that have definitely improved over the years. The Savage and Stevens were on the low end, back in the 60’s and 70’s, both in quality and price, but they have really climbed the ladder. Winchester has gone in the opposite direction with quality, and I think that could have been their downfall with the Model 94’s. I have a pre 1964 model 94, and although the action is clunky, sloppy, loud, and clanky, the thing shoots wonderfully, and the stock fit against the action, as well as the forearm fit is flawless. I also have one of the newer Model 94’s with angle eject. There have been very little improvements made to the action except the angle eject and the stock and forearm do not fit flush with the receiver. The newer one simply feels cheap when you run your hand over it and feel the miss-fitting parts. I recently parted with an old Parker Brothers 12 gauge. This was not a display gun or a commemorative. It was just a plain hunting gun, but it had engravings all over the action, as well as a very decorative butt-plate. The stock and forearm were made of some of the prettiest wood I have ever seen. If the engraving had not been so worn, it would have been hard to tell that this gun was manufactured in 1922. Now on the other hand, I have an old double barreled pin-fire pistol, with nice engraving, made in Belgium that feels like the wooden grip was made by a malingering high school student in shop class, without the teachers’ supervision. I learned long ago that if you want to buy a gun or rifle, hoping it will increase in value, you should stay away from Commemoratives and fancy guns, and go with the best you can find of the regular shootables. So I guess my opinion is that sometimes the guns and rifles improve, and sometimes not. ….popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? [ QUOTE ] So I guess my opinion is that sometimes the guns and rifles improve, and sometimes not. [/ QUOTE ] Would have to agree with popgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? Savage has proven that people do not care that much about cosmetics. They have become highly respected by shooters in the firearms community due to their performance. They are butt ugly but they will hang with any mass produced gun. Savage has started to make more astetically pleasing guns with their Model 14 and 114. Remington did the embellished receivers on the 700 for a while. Personally I hated it. It looked too cheezy. Luckily they no longer offer it. Matte finishes are faster to make than higly polished guns. Hunters seem to prefer the matte finish also, so why bother with the added cost of polished finishes? Its all a question of what will sell. Are the quality of guns better or worse than the "good old days"? Like Popgun said, some are some are not. The communication of shooters to other shooters is dramatically easier today than it was even 10 years ago due to the internet. There were problems with the good old guns too but word of mouth did not pass anywhere near the speed or reach the volumes of people it does today. There is still a lot of I heard of a guy that ..... and people bad mouth a product based on mis-information. The populr gun from "the day" that every shooter now covets is the Pre-64 Model 70. It has had a lot of problems also. But due to some gunwriters and collectors, its in high demand. Guns are mechanical devices that will wear and break down in time. The owners need to maintain and have parts replaced when needed. Gun manufacturers need to make their products at the lowest price possible. The cost of production keep rising with materials, machines, and personel. Research and development costs are overhead until they come up with a product that will make the company money. Its a business like anything else. There are companies that make hand fitted guns but they ain't cheap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hutchies Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Engraving costs more. With more technology in the guns you buy today they have to keep the costs down somehow. There are still gun companies that do engraving but as for the practical hunter most don't care what it looks like compared to how it performs. [/ QUOTE ]engraving does not cost all that much more. it is all done with CNC machinces and it is pretty fast. [/ QUOTE ] How much does the CNC machine cost though? Plus having extra people to run them. Repairs on the machine. There are still costs everywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-Daddy Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? Sounds like comments I get from my customers wondering why machined parts cost so much when you can run them on a CNC machine and it can't take that long. One of our customers asked us to machine some parts that their other shop couldn't do and then complained that we were taking advantage of their distress when we wanted to be paid to do the job. All anyone can see is cycle time. To do custom engraving there would be programming (not free), fixtures (not free), tools (not free), and inspection (again not free). That's assuming that you already know that you had to purchase, maintain and repair the machine tools. Most shops do not have expensive machine tools sitting idle - their schedules and equipment are based on maxing out their capacities. Sorry, I could go on and on, this one just hit my hot button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted March 8, 2006 Report Share Posted March 8, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? More detail, more price. If you're willing to pay, you can find a pretty gun. I don't think the market supports the pretty guns though. Most folks just want utility. As far as advances--you have to give props to Benelli for the inertia recoil system. As far as I know (and I'll bet AJ proves me wrong again), all the other designs have been around for a looooooong time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? The other side...I think alot of folks really like the stainless barrels/actions and composite stocks to resist the weather better. Most folks I deal with want something reliable and less maintenace to something pretty and will rust really easy if not taken care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AllArmyoutdoorsSD Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? And don't forget the short mag craze, i have seen it coming for a while first it was magnum loads and rifles now it is the short mag. I still prefer my pre-64 model 70, and still think they were some of the nicest looking rifles produced. In all honesty I was raised on model 70's so I am a little biassed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? [ QUOTE ] Sounds like comments I get from my customers wondering why machined parts cost so much when you can run them on a CNC machine and it can't take that long. One of our customers asked us to machine some parts that their other shop couldn't do and then complained that we were taking advantage of their distress when we wanted to be paid to do the job. All anyone can see is cycle time. To do custom engraving there would be programming (not free), fixtures (not free), tools (not free), and inspection (again not free). That's assuming that you already know that you had to purchase, maintain and repair the machine tools. Most shops do not have expensive machine tools sitting idle - their schedules and equipment are based on maxing out their capacities. Sorry, I could go on and on, this one just hit my hot button. [/ QUOTE ] Wow! a man after my own heart. I own an automotive machine shop and know where you are coming from. I did see a piece on a TV show the other night where a company is making ehanced wood stocks from plain wood and they looked fantastic. They were also doing the checkering with laser equipment. That too looked great. I'll bet it won't be long and we will see some of this in cheaper priced guns. We can only hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted March 9, 2006 Report Share Posted March 9, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? I've got a malin 336 that was my grandfathers gun he bought just after WWII. My nephew has a new one he got around 2001. His is more asthetically pleasing. It has some nice checkering on the stock and the blueing is much nicer, but the action rattles pretty bad, the trigger "feels cheap" and the gun just doesn't feel like the quality is even close to the older gun. I think mass production has outweighed quality in the marlin factory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted March 12, 2006 Report Share Posted March 12, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? One big improvement IMO is in the 94 Winchester. I have one made in 1949 which, if it is cocked, and you slammed the butt on the floor it will fire everytime. I have found this with at least two others. I also have two later models which have to have the lever squeezed to fire and they DON'T have this problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too_pointer Posted March 17, 2006 Report Share Posted March 17, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? This is a great question I prefer on most of my newer guns, camo and synthetic stocks ( laminated ) which in most cases are lighter. I do like a pretty piece of walnut, or something similiar too. I guess for me, it's the eye of the beholder. I also appreciate the matte and stainless features on barrels and scopes. I think its great they can put such great camo ( realtree ) on scopes, binos, and everything they can camo dip. I leave it up to AJ to figure out the internal parts LOL too_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry264 Posted March 18, 2006 Report Share Posted March 18, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? Give Benelli props for the inertia recoil system, I don't think so. Some Ithaca autoloading shotguns had that system around 40 yrs. ago and the Dads of those shooting them were shooting Browning Auto 5's or Browning double auto's when they were young. Just thought I would mention this since AJ didn't, Terry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lilcrackshot Posted March 21, 2006 Report Share Posted March 21, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? Personally I don't care what the gun looks like as long as it shoots straight and is well made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSU_Seminole Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Re: Guns are they better???? I think so. Guns are like everything else, today's technology has made them better overall. I remember when I was in high school just 15 years ago steel shot was destroying barrels ect ect..... You really don't have that problem anymore & I don't hear people complaining about their semi autos getting jammed or freezing up. Plus you have rifles that can group within an inch straight out of the box from the factory over and over. I defenitely think guns are better today than they were years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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