ParrotHead Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 We’ve all seen them, the Navy racecar, the U.S. Army racecar, National Guard, Marines etc. Do you feel that it’s appropriate for the government to sponsor/fund a racecar as a means of advertisement especially in the wake of the Pentagon denouncing their support of the Boy Scouts of America? For those that don’t know, the ACLU has won a law suit that forced the Pentagon from funding the BSA for the sole reason that they use the term “God” in their pledges. Now for anyone that’s ever been to a race, we all know that there is a prayer to God before anything gets started. Is it only time before the ACLU suies to either stop that prayer or go after those companies (and the government) to stop funding avenues such as NASCAR and NHRA. As for myself, I feel that the ACLU does one thing right every quarter of a century, this isn’t one of those times. I don’t have any issues with the government funding various organizations. The thought that our government isn’t going to fund an organization that’s sole purpose is to educate young boys and help them as they transition into young men is troubling to me. Seems that you would get more bang for the buck over the long run as opposed to funding something that caters to a hundred thousand drunks on Sunday afternoon. Thoughts or comments? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? [ QUOTE ] Thoughts or comments? [/ QUOTE ] Just one.....how do we get rid of the ACLU? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 18, 2004 Report Share Posted November 18, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Thoughts or comments? [/ QUOTE ] Just one.....how do we get rid of the ACLU? [/ QUOTE ] Amen to that. Wish there was a way. They have gotten way too powerfull and do not stand for the rights of the American people as their name suggests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? I am surprised to hear the Pentagon withdrew their support for the BSA. Here I thought they had a bigger set than to back down from the ACLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? Billboard advertisement and maybe a couple times a year being on a car isnt really awful. But the tax dollars could be spent toward the troops instead of Nascar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Thoughts or comments? [/ QUOTE ] Just one.....how do we get rid of the ACLU? [/ QUOTE ] Amen to that. Wish there was a way. They have gotten way too powerfull and do not stand for the rights of the American people as their name suggests. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe they just don't stand for the rights that you as a conservative American believe in. Americans are diverse. There are many Americans that do not believe in God, should they be forced to pray to a God they don't believe in, whether it be Allah, Mohammed or nothing at all. All Americans have certain "unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."(or property to quote John Locke) Where is the liberty in telling someone he must pray to a certain God, where is the pursuit of happiness when someone is told who he can and cannot marry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? OK, what does the aclu really stand for sluggo. American rights????? Come on. If you are not black, gay, a minority, a woman or somehow in a postion to get them national attention in the way of a stupid frivilous lawsuit they do not give a crap about you. They have supported taking away my rights as a Christian. Are my rights not as valuable as the atheist who is screaming about the 10 commandments in the courthouse???? Are my rights not as valuablew because I am white???? Are my rights really not as valuable becuase I am not underprivelged???? This organization has not supported protecting any rights of any people of late. It has supported the removal of rights of people who have always had those rights. Explain in plain english to everyone in this forum how the aclu is taking up for my rights and theirs? By the way I want to know where in the heck you come up with this crap about anyone making someone pray to their God? Schools used to have a moment of silence. Fortunately our schools still do, but they are not allowed to pray before football games anymore because of the mentality like yours. No one makes anyone listen to what my daughter thinks about as she quietly prays to herself or to the next kid who thinks about playing his gameboy. No one is making anyone accept God. I am so sick of this crap about how you and others are forced to religion. No one is forcing anything on you. You have the right to not look at it or not listen to it if you dont like it. It has been that way since the start of this country. Get over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted November 19, 2004 Report Share Posted November 19, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem Much like the NAACP, most labor unions, and almost all of academia, the ACLU has drifted so far from its origins that I doubt if the founders would even recognize it today. All of these organizations have become extremely politicized and all are pushing a left wing agenda with the acquisition of power as their ultimate goal. AND all the while denying that they are leftist OR trying to acquire power!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem I don't care if they "fight" for the rights of "their people", but don't cram it down my throat. I don't care if they remove God from their life, but don't tell me that God has to be removed from my life. If they don't want to say the word "God" when reciting the pledge, them don't say it. But don't say I can't say it. I do and always will. It's the loudest word I speak when reciting the pledge. If they don't want the word "God" on the money, don't handle money. In today's world they can use the ATM, debit cards or checks and never have to touch money that has the word "God" on it. If they don't want to pray to God, that's fine, too. When those of us that do want to pray in school and at school events, commencement ceremonies (and every where else that 's been challenged on their behalf) are doing so, stand mute while the rest of us pray. Just quit b i t c h i n g that my rights violate your rights. Doesn't capitulating to your rights ultimately violate my rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem [ QUOTE ] Doesn't capitulating to your rights ultimately violate my rights? [/ QUOTE ] Wow that is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted November 20, 2004 Report Share Posted November 20, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem Wow, William...what a great post! A couple things to comment on: [ QUOTE ] I don’t have any issues with the government funding various organizations. [/ QUOTE ] PH, maybe I'm taking it too literally, but I don't want government funding anything besides that which is essential to our survival. If people have more of their own money by cutting a lot of government fat, then they can choose what organizations it goes to. I absolutely despise the fact that we have no say in where they send our money. Yeah, we are a representative democracy, but there's nothing representative about the fat cats in Washington, D.C. funneling our money to improve their power base...it really hacks me off. [ QUOTE ] All Americans have certain "unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."(or property to quote John Locke) Where is the liberty in telling someone he must pray to a certain God, where is the pursuit of happiness when someone is told who he can and cannot marry? [/ QUOTE ] In response to your rhetorical question, slugshooter, where is the unalienable right to life? Why does the law treat the life of a mother as more valuable than that of an unborn child? Don't get me wrong--I don't know if you're pro-life or pro-choice, so my point here is rhetorical as well. Why was Scott Peterson found guilty of murdering his son, whereas if Laci wanted to terminate the pregnancy, she could've done it on a whim? Why don't men have rights if they get a woman pregnant? Why are we forced to pay child support if we don't want the kid---and why are we not given a say if she wants to kill it and the guy wants it to live? Or course, this is just another instance of the legal hypocrisy of our system. Trial lawyers have thrown out the constitution as written and now we make up constitutional law as we go along. This rant isn't directed at you, ss (Just wanted to make it clear.) I'm just completely fed up with the system as it currently is. Everything our government does these days is based on two factors: political convenience and generating more revenue so they can waste it. (And the two, of course, are tied together.) The role of the federal government should be nothing more than to protect our basic rights as human beings, and the states should be left the rest of the power and burden. Though state legislatures are corrupt as well, they're nowhere near as bad as Congress. I'd be perfectly fine with taking almost everyone in Congress and sending them to Gitmo. Maybe there are a few who truly give a darn about the Constitution as it was written, but it's probably a handfull at best. Sorry, don't know what got into me today...too much caffeine or something...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted November 21, 2004 Report Share Posted November 21, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? [ QUOTE ] If you are not black, gay, a minority, a woman or somehow in a postion to get them national attention in the way of a stupid frivilous lawsuit they do not give a crap about you. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe because those groups you mentioned are the most likely to be targeted by discrimination and sterotyping based on those factors. Us white males don't have to worry about things that those groups have to put up with, never have, never will, someone needs to fight for them. [ QUOTE ] By the way I want to know where in the heck you come up with this crap about anyone making someone pray to their God? [/ QUOTE ] When someone in a public government run school that is supposed to be separate from the church is forced to participate in a prayer promoting one religion without regards to that persons religious beliefs, that is where the line is crossed. I grew up in a religious household, still cling to a lot of my beliefs, but I do not believe that children in a public school should be forced to pray in a classroom to a God they may or may not believe in. What I want to know is where all the crap comes from claiming that kids are not allowed to pray in school, which is what the religious right thumps on a daily basis. Kids are allowed to pray in school, as long as that prayer does not interfere with the operation of the school or is disruptive. I prayed at my high school virtually every morning right in front of the school, I prayed at other times, but for a group to say that " Prayer has been banned from our schools!!" Is an outright lie and they should be held accountable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? When I was in the Air Force my biggest problem was the so called "incentive flights" that happened every now and then, mostly used by the Air Force and Navy, how many remember Tiger Woods taking a ride with the Thunderbirds, or was it the Blue Angels, other celebrities have also, Rusty Wallace did a jump with the Golden Knights, along with his pit crew. The military uses those things as recruiting tools. I don't think the return on investment is all that great. You figure with manpower and jet fuel and maintenance costs to send Tiger Woods up in a jet for an hour to make themselves look "cool" to the average American teen, how many teenage golfers who actually care what Tiger does went out and joined the military that day or even later on. That to me is wasteful, plus, I was always jealous knowing I'd never get to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisement? [ QUOTE ] Maybe because those groups you mentioned are the most likely to be targeted by discrimination and sterotyping based on those factors. Us white males don't have to worry about things that those groups have to put up with, never have, never will, someone needs to fight for them. [/ QUOTE ] Think you are blind buddy. Dont know what kind of world you are living in. You obviously cannot see how we white men are being reversely discriminated against. It is all too common. Perfect example, I have seen first hand in factories around here, where they have to hire so many minorities and if for instance a black person is close to being as qualified as a white person for a specific job they will most likely give it to the black person just because they want to avoid the possibility of discrimination allegations. When they have to let people go from factories, the minorities are the last to go. They have to be careful and build strong cases against them so they do not get sued, where as if you are white, you are just sol. Employers are often afraid of the legal issues in dealing with minorities. I had some dealing as a manager with a case that came up against the company I worked for and it was a nightmare. The person I fired did not have a case and I had good grounds to let him go, but it still was a mess and he did try to file charges against us for discrimination. Another example is schools. Is it not discrimination to accept a certain number of black students over white as a quota even if those students did not score as well on entrance level exams and have as good of grades? It happens. Seems to be discriminating against white people there to me. How about some of the organizations. NAACP, NNCF, Miss Black America. A list could go on forever. You better darned well believe that if we started a Miss White America or a White American College fund that there would be countless lawsuits. Seems to be a discrimnatory nature that those who support these type organizations are really in a sense causing more seperation themselves rather than trying to unite. I am only 35 years old, but have been alive long enough to see that the discrimination is not by us, but is more so against us, and it has gotten worse in my lifetime. Whether you chose to accept it or not reverse discrimination or whatever you wish to call it is very real and is a serious growing problem. [ QUOTE ] When someone in a public government run school that is supposed to be separate from the church is forced to participate in a prayer promoting one religion without regards to that persons religious beliefs, that is where the line is crossed. I grew up in a religious household, still cling to a lot of my beliefs, but I do not believe that children in a public school should be forced to pray in a classroom to a God they may or may not believe in. What I want to know is where all the crap comes from claiming that kids are not allowed to pray in school, which is what the religious right thumps on a daily basis. Kids are allowed to pray in school, as long as that prayer does not interfere with the operation of the school or is disruptive. I prayed at my high school virtually every morning right in front of the school, I prayed at other times, but for a group to say that " Prayer has been banned from our schools!!" Is an outright lie and they should be held accountable. [/ QUOTE ] I have not ever heard of any school making any kid say any prayer. A school offers a moment of silence at the start of the morning for the kids to think to themselves. They do not make any suggestions as to what the students have to think about during that moment. You tap danced around my point. No kid is made to chose a religion based upon a 60 second silence in the classroom when they are free to think of whatever they wish. It is in my opinion the intent of the aclu to remove that from all schools to further seperate us from our rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntingInMaine Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem [ QUOTE ] Why don't men have rights if they get a woman pregnant? Why are we forced to pay child support if we don't want the kid---and why are we not given a say if she wants to kill it and the guy wants it to live? [/ QUOTE ] Markyj, I want to first say that I don't know if what you wrote were your personal opinions, or more of your rhetorical answers to rhetorical questions so I am not passing judgement on you.... Your final point in the above quote is very good, I agree that if a man wants to raise the child in a loving manner, than the mother should not be allowed to have an abortion. And she should also be made to pay child support. Maybe if men lobbied and rallied and supported each other the way women have, they would have more rights in these cases. I did a quick internet search and found several cases where men did sue women who were carrying their child and planning an abortion, but in most cases the women won because laws support their rights to have an abortion. But I have to disagree with what you say in the beginning. My mother always told me if I didn't want children, then don't have sex! That is the only way you can be sure it won't happen....all the birth control in the world can't give you that guarantee (and I have a 9 year old son who is proof the pill doesn't always work! LOL). If you have sex with someone, then you should be ready to step up to the plate and do the right thing by the child created. That baby didn't ask to be born. Both parents need to take responsibility in that situation whether the man wants the child or not! [ QUOTE ] Us white males don't have to worry about things that those groups have to put up with, never have, never will, someone needs to fight for them. [/ QUOTE ] Slugshooter, I think you are going to have to worry about that a lot sooner than you think. White men are rapidly becoming a minority as other nationalities continue to grow at a faster rate (hispanics come to mind). Aren't white men being discriminated against when a woman or other minority is hired before them, not because they are less qualified, but because the company has to meet their quota of minorities working for them? I am in no way racist (and I am female, so you know I am not against women getting treated fairly), but I think the best PERSON should be hired, not the person who is the right gender or has the right skin color. That is just more discrimination, but because it is against a white male, no one says anything about it. Wouldn't it be great if one day we didn't need equal rights laws because people stop looking at genders and nationalities and really looked at the person! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem I feel the best person should be hired also, but years of minorities getting passed over for jobs or promotions even if they were more qualified than the white person led us to Affirmative Action. Even if there are more "minorities" than white males, white males still run most of the companies and make most of the decisions. Using the argument of reverse discrimination makes me think that you guys think it is OK for an employer to discriminate against someone because of their race or gender. The whole reason for Affirmative Action is to make sure those qualified minorities get the jobs they deserve, why should I get a job over a minority who may have more experience or a college degree. Thats what has happened and still happens to this day, and noone can honestly say it doesn't. We will never defeat racism in this country, but the battle will continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted November 22, 2004 Report Share Posted November 22, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem [ QUOTE ] Using the argument of reverse discrimination makes me think that you guys think it is OK for an employer to discriminate against someone because of their race or gender. [/ QUOTE ] How the heck does it make you think that?? Forget race totally, 3 ppl apply for a job, best qualified should get it. We have gone from being more likely to hire a white person, to overlooking better qualified white people and hiring a minority so we can meet quota's, or make up for past discrimination. All that does is cheat more qualified individuals. Forget all that and hire simply on merit. If that means hiring more minorities so be it, if it means hiring more white people that is fine as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem [ QUOTE ] How the heck does it make you think that?? Forget race totally, 3 ppl apply for a job, best qualified should get it. We have gone from being more likely to hire a white person, to overlooking better qualified white people and hiring a minority so we can meet quota's, or make up for past discrimination. All that does is cheat more qualified individuals. Forget all that and hire simply on merit. If that means hiring more minorities so be it, if it means hiring more white people that is fine as well. [/ QUOTE ] Have been roundabout saying the same to slugshooter and he just does not seem to get it. Its seems to be pointless conversation, he simply does not understand that employers hire a equally or even in many instances lesser qualified minorities over a white person just because they have to meet quotas. As for what happened before equal rights sluggo, how really does giving blacks better opportunities than white make better what took place. It really does not in any way. Seems some Americans have this mentality that they are due something because of things that took place well before they were born. Sorry, I think it is time for there to be truly equal opportunities for all in the work place including white men and women. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted November 23, 2004 Report Share Posted November 23, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem I understand completely what you're saying, I agree that Affirmative Action is not working the way it should be and people are abusing that just like everything else. You can't instill ethics and integrity. I just have a real problem with someone not getting a job who may be more qualified because he is black. We can't erase what happened, but without Affirmative Action, black people and other minorities will still be getting the shaft when it comes to jobs and other things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuntingInMaine Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Should the government use sports as advertisem "I just have a real problem with someone not getting a job who may be more qualified because he is black. We can't erase what happened, but without Affirmative Action, black people and other minorities will still be getting the shaft when it comes to jobs and other things." Maybe if the affirmative action laws were being enforced, it would work, but it isn't so we need a new program. If it was working, then I wouldn't be making .76 cents for every dollar a man earns for the same job! Affirmative action is just a pretty bandaid to make people happy, but it doesn't address the real problem which are the lack of ethics and integrity you were writing about....Let's pray the next generation has shed the racism and oppression of generations before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.