Adjam5 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 http://www.nyoutdoornews.com/articles/2006/03/23/news/news1.txt I hunt 3H and I welcome these AR's for my area. That area is turning out nothing but tiny bucks. I have been hunting this area for over 20 years, and have only taken one nice 8 off of my land. Many locals, who have grown up there, have not taken a buck like I took in nov '01 . I already practice QDM on my land, I just hope the locals catch on. Many never even tag their deer One thing that needs to be addressed is the lack of DMP's in those areas. If there is AR's, and a lack of DMP's, many will be discouraged from hunting in those areas. AR's may not be the end all be all to improving the deer herd, but it is a start. I welcome these AR's for the next 3 years. I hope the junior archers are exempt from these AR's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Good for you I hope that the rest of the state is to follow!!! QDM really works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K The way we do it in Arkansas makes a lot of sence to me. We have a blanket 3pt on one size for the whole state. Youth hunters under 16 can shoot any deer they want to for their first deer of the season, but after that they are restricted to the same ARs as everyone else. So if a spike comes out they can take it, but thier second deer has to be a regular legal buck or a doe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Yep JohnF I like that idea. Has anyone heard if they are going to expand the area. I would love it if they would include my unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Born2Hunt Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K It's about time. Now if we can get it in unit 6 that would be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhunter91 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Hey everyone.. I'm Adjam's son. I also welcome the AR's in Sullivan County. We have been following QDM on our land for about 2 years now, with a minor mistake, but that's over. Now with the WMU wide restrictions, everyone will have to shoot bigger bucks. It is a start nonetheless. I also hope junior archers are exempt from the restriction. I wouldn't mind arrowing a forkhorn or spike for my first buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K I get that magazine. I only wish they had printed the ENTIRE article on the web. In it they also discuss the downside to AR in this zone and they make some very valid points. He wrote. "With lower deer number, AR in place and absoutely NO doe permits in these two DMU's, it's going leave many hunters wondering "What can I shoot?". With these restrictions you are going to have a huge drop in license sales in your area. It's tough to bring back hunters after they leave the sport. IMHO Hunters in NY are sinking in a quicksand of political boloney. I wish I had a nickel for ever time I thought about leaving the state. I think we should focus on fighting our democrat assembly and helping our sport grow. The endless bickering over AR and growing big racks is not helping the issue. Right now there is a bill (a4771) that will outlaw .50 cal. ML's and 12 Ga. shotguns in NY. It has been sponsored by 25 assemblymen. And with Spitzer on the way as our next Gov. you will be lucky to have any guns to shoot your precious trophy racks. Just some food for thought. You can can argue the AR pro's and con's till we are blue in the face and you may win your point when we have statewide AR. But in the end we will only lose the war. I am logging off now to write a letter to my state senator and assemblywoman. I hope you do the same. Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYBUCK Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Ranger I agree but disagree too. You are right we have to stick together and we have much bigger fish to fry. However AR discussions we have as hunters can be healthy as long as we keep it a debate amoungst us. I am for AR but I also like to hear the other side, which we have seen both many times. IMO I like AR because I think it promotes a healthier and older herd. The problem is we need to do other things too that I won't get into here. But you are right, as long as we are led, (and I mean that loosely) by a bunch of anti-hunting liberals we are always going to being fighting here in NY for our rights. I like Ranger encourage everyone to write, email, call your legislators and voice your opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Ranger, just remember that no matter how bad you folks have it in NY, at least you're not hunting in Vermont where it's been worse then NY for as long as I can remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K RangerClay- I too am a bit concerned about how AR might impact our hunter base. I noticed in the latest New York Outdoor News an article talking about another 5% reduction in hunting license sales in NY. I also noted that the DEC was blaming the reduction in permits as the primary reason. My conclusion to that is that whenever you create a situation where hunters begin to believe that they have no chance at success, we lose another gob of hunters. Now, we really have no choice but to cut permit numbers in some areas. But couple that up with AR, and you have a situation where, in some areas, hunters may be absolutely correct in assuming they have a zero chance at a deer of any kind. I really can't imagine too many people sticking with the sport when they finally become convinced that everything they see will be deemed illegal to shoot, particularly those that are on the fence already. Can we afford to lose these hunters? Well, with every announcement that our numbers are in decline, we continue to lose political clout and influence with the DEC and the legislature, which are items that are already in short supply in this state. I believe this is one of the reasons that the DEC has shown so little interest in AR and are constantly dragging their feet with this issue. Perhaps they understand the underlying dangers that are inherent in going too far with discouraging our hunter base. Yes there are downsides to statewide rollout of AR, and nobody really seems to want to talk about them much. All we seem to see is visions of monster bucks all over the place. It may be time to get down and look at the over-all bigger picture. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted March 26, 2006 Report Share Posted March 26, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K First I owe NYBuck and everyone an apology. After reading my post a second time I can see how it sounds like I am saying that AR should not be argued anymore. That was not my intent. You are right that a healthy discussion is very important so that those who are uninformed can see both sides of the issue and make up their own minds. Personally I think AR can be a good thing in small doses. Myself and my neighbors may be giving it a try. However I am against any statewide manditory AR for the same reasons I mentioned above and what Doc said. Hunters "might" and I use the word "might" loosely, see the benefits of AR in some areas. However 2-4 years of hunters saying, "what can I shoot?" will decimate our big game hunter ranks. Also you have places in our state that do not need AR. Literally forcing your opinions and style of hunting on someone just doesn't sit well with me. Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 28, 2006 Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Sure do wish they would implement some type of restrictions here. The states deer management attempts for this area have obviously gone in the wrong direction over the past couple years. The Arkansas restrictions John mentioned sound like a pretty good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted March 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K It seems like a REALLY wierd restriction. It says that spikes and forkhorns will be protected. OOOKAY....so 3pters, 5's and better? Yes?...NO? How about a rule like 3 on one side? Less confusing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stsi36 Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K thats an odd restriction in my opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K [ QUOTE ] How about a rule like 3 on one side? [/ QUOTE ] Think that was what John meant. He had a typo I am guessing where he typed 3 on one size, he probably meant side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HaDeRonDa Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Antler restrictions for number of points is the only way you can age a deer herd on public land. It has to be done. You can not count on the public to do it themselves. Want to really increase your buck herd? Make it a law that you can only harvest one buck. Then the hunt becomes the management of does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldblue Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Had AR in Pennsylvania for a few years and it is the only thing the Game Commission is doing that I agree with right now. We are not seeing many deer but the bucks that hunters are taking are quality deer. We have a 3 points on one side rule and it is a little bothersome to see, count and then shot, but we are getting nice bucks. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrelhunter91 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K [ QUOTE ] Antler restrictions for number of points is the only way you can age a deer herd on public land. It has to be done. You can not count on the public to do it themselves. Want to really increase your buck herd? Make it a law that you can only harvest one buck. Then the hunt becomes the management of does. [/ QUOTE ] HadeRonda, in NY, all you get is one buck tag. But if you bowhunt/muzzleload hunt, then you can get an either sex tag. So technically, if you're lucky you can shoot two bucks. But by DEC, you are entitled to 2 bucks max, but only one buck tag is issued. In the areas they are now introducing antler restrictions to, ( 3H & 3K ), have had no doe permits the past few years and now with antler restrictions, there aren't many deer mature enough or with antlers large enough to meet this standard. There are some out there, but they are few and far in between. Leaving not much for hunters to hunt. That is the dilemma we are discussing here, atleast for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K [ QUOTE ] there aren't many deer mature enough or with antlers large enough to meet this standard. There are some out there, but they are few and far in between. Leaving not much for hunters to hunt. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe not the first year or maybe two, but think about what will be out there in a few years with the restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted March 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K With all antler restrictions there is a buy in period...an investment is being made. This kind of thing takes time. Generous doe tags are a key ingredient to managing a herd. Lets see what happens. I was lucky enough in one of these areas, to take a nice 8pter back in 01. The deer there do have potential if the little ones are given a chance to grow. My buck there was aged at 3 1/2 years old. I have practiced QDM on our 62 acre camp for 2 years now. This fall will be the 3rd. I have planted food plots, fertilized my and pruned my apple trees. Cut browse all over the woods this winter too. I am doing what I can to help the herd in that area. My 3 sons are the one who will really reap the harvest of the AR's on our land. When they'll be legal to gun hunt, the bucks will be ready! I am confidant these AR's will help produce bigger and healtheir deer. Heck, if there are no bucks to shoot for 3 years, then the coyotes better watch out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K Adjam5, I think you have made some excellent points. Many people are disbelievers about antler restrictions and how many positive things that come along with it. I have seen the effects my self on a piece of property that you were lucky to see deer on and now they are everywhere. I think many people that fight AR's are people that don't want to try anything different because they do not like to be told what to do (and before anyone gets offended I said MOST PEOPLE) The way I see it the positive effects that we have seen are 1. A MUCH healthier deer heard, which has made our does healthier and when that happens there are more fawns usually two from each doe but we have had many cases where does are dropping three. 2. There is increased rut activity which means we see a lot more bucks during the deer season. And all our does are being breed because our buck to doe ratio is getting bette every year. 3. And of course this is the one everyone seems to jump all over when we who like ar's of course you see bigger racks. A side effect but such a nice side effect!!! I think if we as NY's invest as you guys say (I like the way you think) we will actually have more success becasue people will see an opportunity to get in the woods and see more deer and have a better chence at something besides just another spike horn. Many people argue that we will loose all these hunters if we do this, I do not believe that is true. We are loosing a great deal of hunters now because there are no deer, I think that if we make this investment in NY we will see things turn around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HaDeRonDa Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K [/ QUOTE ] HadeRonda, in NY, all you get is one buck tag. But if you bowhunt/muzzleload hunt, then you can get an either sex tag. So technically, if you're lucky you can shoot two bucks. But by DEC, you are entitled to 2 bucks max, but only one buck tag is issued. In the areas they are now introducing antler restrictions to, ( 3H & 3K ), have had no doe permits the past few years and now with antler restrictions, there aren't many deer mature enough or with antlers large enough to meet this standard. There are some out there, but they are few and far in between. Leaving not much for hunters to hunt. That is the dilemma we are discussing here, atleast for the most part. [/ QUOTE ] I hunt NY quite a bit. I'm familiar. As far as the standard is concerned. There are deer that meet this standard and in fair numbers, on private land. The problem lies on state land not so much private. We need to look outside our immediate neighborhood to get a good handle on this, not just the WMA we tend to hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K [ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] HadeRonda, in NY, all you get is one buck tag. But if you bowhunt/muzzleload hunt, then you can get an either sex tag. So technically, if you're lucky you can shoot two bucks. But by DEC, you are entitled to 2 bucks max, but only one buck tag is issued. In the areas they are now introducing antler restrictions to, ( 3H & 3K ), have had no doe permits the past few years and now with antler restrictions, there aren't many deer mature enough or with antlers large enough to meet this standard. There are some out there, but they are few and far in between. Leaving not much for hunters to hunt. That is the dilemma we are discussing here, atleast for the most part. [/ QUOTE ] I hunt NY quite a bit. I'm familiar. As far as the standard is concerned. There are deer that meet this standard and in fair numbers, on private land. The problem lies on state land not so much private. We need to look outside our immediate neighborhood to get a good handle on this, not just the WMA we tend to hunt. [/ QUOTE ] I understand looking at state land but the thing people need to see is that once you do something state wide or in your wmu you take a lot of the advantages away from the landowner because it gives a deer more land to roam on without having bulletts shot at them around every tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] there aren't many deer mature enough or with antlers large enough to meet this standard. There are some out there, but they are few and far in between. Leaving not much for hunters to hunt. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe not the first year or maybe two, but think about what will be out there in a few years with the restrictions. [/ QUOTE ] And how many more hunters will we lose during that "year or two" and how ever more that might required to see any significant difference? As I already commented, we lost 5% just due to a reduction in permits. Couple that with severe restrictions on the few remaining deer that are legal to shoot, and just how many more will we lose? Don't respond by saying how you would react. Chances are pretty good that anyone here on the forums would have a whole lot more patience than the majority of hunters. Think about those that are already on the fence. Think about all those hunters that show up on opening day of gun season never to be seen for the rest of the season. Think about all those hunters who have more activities than their time can accomodate already ..... those that already have to put severe priorities on their fall activities just to squeeze in some hunting time. Those are the ones that comprise a majority of the hunter population. Now think about all the complaining we do about not having adequate political power. Think about all the complaints about hunters losing influence with the DEC. Does it really make any sense to be putting in place severe restrictions that will only serve to frustrate these hunters even more? Are we ready to tell some of them that, "no you can't have a doe permit, and by the way, nearly 100% of the bucks you see in the next two or so years will be illegal to shoot"? You're pretty much telling them that they will have to sit out the next two or more years. Sure, you may be willing to take on that level of frustration, but understand that it will come at the expense of an already rapidly diminishing hunter base. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Antler restrictions in place in NY\'s 3H and 3K [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] there aren't many deer mature enough or with antlers large enough to meet this standard. There are some out there, but they are few and far in between. Leaving not much for hunters to hunt. [/ QUOTE ] Maybe not the first year or maybe two, but think about what will be out there in a few years with the restrictions. [/ QUOTE ] And how many more hunters will we lose during that "year or two" and how ever more that might required to see any significant difference? As I already commented, we lost 5% just due to a reduction in permits. Couple that with severe restrictions on the few remaining deer that are legal to shoot, and just how many more will we lose? Don't respond by saying how you would react. Chances are pretty good that anyone here on the forums would have a whole lot more patience than the majority of hunters. Think about those that are already on the fence. Think about all those hunters that show up on opening day of gun season never to be seen for the rest of the season. Think about all those hunters who have more activities than their time can accomodate already ..... those that already have to put severe priorities on their fall activities just to squeeze in some hunting time. Those are the ones that comprise a majority of the hunter population. Now think about all the complaining we do about not having adequate political power. Think about all the complaints about hunters losing influence with the DEC. Does it really make any sense to be putting in place severe restrictions that will only serve to frustrate these hunters even more? Are we ready to tell some of them that, "no you can't have a doe permit, and by the way, nearly 100% of the bucks you see in the next two or so years will be illegal to shoot"? You're pretty much telling them that they will have to sit out the next two or more years. Sure, you may be willing to take on that level of frustration, but understand that it will come at the expense of an already rapidly diminishing hunter base. Doc [/ QUOTE ] You keep saying we are loosing deer hunters due to the frustration levels of how things are now, so IMO something needs to change and I feel this is the way we need to go to see some positive changes that will last more than a one or two year fix. We need to start thinking past just next years hunting season but into the future. If we all respect the deer heard in our areas as much as I think we do we need to do what is better for them not just ourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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