RDNKHNTR77 Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 we finally made a good managerial decision by sigining grady sizemore to a 6 yr contract!!! looks like shapiro really knows his stuff, hopefully they can have a good season and dethrown those white sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 29, 2006 Report Share Posted March 29, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... Paul, this is third time I'm telling you this ...Mark Shapiro is a great GM...GM of the year last year, whatcha mean finally? Don't only did he bring Sizemore, Cliff Lee, and Bradon Phillips here in the same trade, but he stole Hafner for next to nothing...he developed VMart, CC, Coco, Peralta, and Francisco Cormona...a name you're gonna hear real soon. He's a good GM. Give my man some credit, without him, the Indians would be garbage, maybe even as bad as the Pittspuke Pirates (yup, that's what I said BB11). Just remember these words Paul: Dolan must go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... Everybody say it with me now........... Overrated!!! Overrated!! Overrated!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] Everybody say it with me now........... Overrated!!! Overrated!! Overrated!! [/ QUOTE ] I really thought we were talking about the Indians here. Why bring up the Steelers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] Everybody say it with me now........... Overrated!!! Overrated!! Overrated!! [/ QUOTE ] Nevermind this guy MC...this is just his sorry attempt to get me fired up, because when I do the same thing with Big Slow Worthlissburger....old BB11 gets a bad case of the red arsh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... On a serious note, I'd like red arshed BB11 to name a better leadoff hitter from the AL last year. Figgins maybe? I'd give you that, but I'm sure the names you come up with are going to create a very, very short list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... And I would also like someone to name me a better managed small market team in the US. Don't think we will see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... If you think about it, Mark Shapiro has really revolutionized the way "small market" teams have to run their organizations in order to compete with the Yankee's and Red Sox. They invest a lot of money into their farm system, trade away their stars at the peak of their value (and just before they're due a huge contract, and so they don't lose them to free agency and get nothing in return). When they do trade their stars they get 2 or 3 top prospects in return. Sure this is a gamble, but with the shoestring budget Larry Dolan gives Shapiro to work with, it's really a brilliant system. The Tribe is loaded with young talent right now, and there's a several big league ready players starting in AAA Buffalo right now...I'm sure you're aware of them, but this is for BB11 (since he needs a little sports education apparently). Names to remember... Andy Marte Ryan Garko (these two are the corners of the infield next year for sure) Fransico Carmona (he'll probably be in the rotation in May) Jeremy Guthrie (had a great spring) Franklin Gutierrez (Shapiro actually got this kid for Milton Bradley ) btw- I have trouble calling the Indians a "small market team"...that's a cop out. Larry Dolan owns Cablevision, a company that is struggling right now. Steinbrenner created the Yes Network specifically to steal market share from Dolan in the New York market. Believe it or not that took a huge chunk of Dolan's income away. Steinbrenner didn't get to be that rich by being stupid. Besides, during their run in the mid-90's with Jacobs running the show, this "small market" team didn't seem to have any trouble paying the salaries of Ramirez, Thome, the Alomar brothers, Eddie Murray, Lofton, David Justice etc... Just a cheap owner that's all. If Shapiro could spend like Brian Cashman, he'd get so much credit he'd be commisioner someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Everybody say it with me now........... Overrated!!! Overrated!! Overrated!! [/ QUOTE ] I really thought we were talking about the Indians here. Why bring up the Steelers. [/ QUOTE ] And who has a championship ring? What has Cleveland won lately? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] And I would also like someone to name me a better managed small market team in the US. Don't think we will see that. [/ QUOTE ] Oakland. Florida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] On a serious note, I'd like red arshed BB11 to name a better leadoff hitter from the AL last year. Figgins maybe? I'd give you that, but I'm sure the names you come up with are going to create a very, very short list. [/ QUOTE ] Figgins, Damon, Rollins, Jeter, Ichiro, Roberts and Barmes when healthy...Reyes and Eckstein get honorable mention. Any more questions? BTW muggsy--I was the one who informed you about Marte last year. You hadn't even heard of him when Cleveland made the trade for him, I told you that you guys got a major steal. So looks like I was the one doing the education there eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... First of all, Rollins plays in the NL, I'll give Ichiro and Damon and Roberts (who had a fluke year) absolutely no way Jeter or Barmes. So with Figgins, that's 4 guys, and it was Sizemore's first full season in the bigs...................thanks for making my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... as far as the Marte thing goes...you said he's a big name prospect....geez, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RDNKHNTR77 Posted March 30, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] Dolan must go! [/ QUOTE ] i concur Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master_Chief Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Everybody say it with me now........... Overrated!!! Overrated!! Overrated!! [/ QUOTE ] I really thought we were talking about the Indians here. Why bring up the Steelers. [/ QUOTE ] And who has a championship ring? What has Cleveland won lately? [/ QUOTE ] OK point taken on that one. But I will NOT GIVE IN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] First of all, Rollins plays in the NL, I'll give Ichiro and Damon and Roberts (who had a fluke year) absolutely no way Jeter or Barmes. So with Figgins, that's 4 guys, and it was Sizemore's first full season in the bigs...................thanks for making my point. [/ QUOTE ] LOL....you dare me to name one guy better then Sizemore, I come up with FOUR right off the top of my head and you say that I proved your point. Are you sure you didn't pull a muscle while you danced around that one? What are you basing the best leadoff hitter status on anyway? I can make a case for Podsednik and Dellucci, maybe even a few others if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] I can make a case for Podsednik and Dellucci, maybe even a few others if you want. [/ QUOTE ] I think I just popped a blood vessel in my forehead...what are ya smokin' today? Ignorance is bliss eh? btw- go back and read my post you referenced...key on the words "short list"...and thus you'll see how you proved my point. geez, do I have to hold your hand on everything bud? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... Eric: So you're point is that Shapiro made a great move by signing the 5th best lead off man(AL only) to a 6 year contract? Don't get me wrong, I think Grady is a great player, but if I was going to sign someone for 6 years, he'd either BE the best or have several consistent years under his belt. And as for the comment on Jeter? 20 years from now while Jeter's jersey is sitting in the Hall, its very likely that we'll be wondering who's Sizemore, anyway?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... Why do insist on avoiding every question I ask you? What are you basing this "best leadoff hitter" criteria on? Average? Steals? Hits? Runs? Instead of popping blood vessels and throwing out statements you probably don't even understand like "ignorance is bliss" why dont you prove your point. I got all kinds of ammo, bring it on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... John: I don't have to prove my points, you do that for me. Kev: Put Jeter on any other team and he's a good player, very solid for sure, would probably make a few All Star games, but not in the Hall of Fame. But since he's on the Yanks and gets all that media attention he'll get in. And if you can look at his numbers and honestly say they're Hall of Fame caliber, I don't know what else to say. If Shapiro doesn't sign Sizemore type guys to long term deals when he can...he'll lose them to the Yankees, Red Sox, or other "big market teams". The guy works miracles with the limited resources he has. Sure Grady may be unproven, but we have him for 6 more years at $4 million per. If we didn't go long term, there's a great chance he'd be making a lot more a few years from now...in another cities uniform. Take it from a guy who watched almost every Tribe game last year, Grady was the heart of that team...period. He might have been the 5th best leadoff hitter (debatable) but keep in mind...that was his first full season. And like I said, if it wasn't for Shapiro, the Indians would a lot worse off. Sure he's made some bad moves, show me one GM who hasn't, but his great moves far outweight his stinkers. Your Dodgers have the luxury off throwing boat loads of money at players (Nomar....err..Nomore), Shapiro doesn't have that easy way out, and he's still able to put a competitive team on the field with guts and creativety...hence why the guys "in the know" rewarded him with GM of the Year. John, Kevin...your daily dose of sports 101 is now complete...let me know how else I can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] Kev: Put Jeter on any other team and he's a good player, very solid for sure, would probably make a few All Star games, but not in the Hall of Fame. But since he's on the Yanks and gets all that media attention he'll get in. [/ QUOTE ] Ah yes, the old if he was on another team he would suck line that muggsy has got down pat. Bud, did you ever consider the fact that maybe Sizeless would be completely unknown if he wasn't batting in front of some monsters like your boy VMart and Hafner? Hey I found a stat for you. Sizeless was 11th in the AL in On base % among leadoff hitters and tied for 10th in BA. Whats up with that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... Yeah, the Dodgers have had the luxury the past few years to throw "boat loads" of money at players, but where has that got them?? The playoff's once in the last 5 years?? The Dodgers best years were the years when their farm system was stacked. During the early 90s I believe they had a streak of 5 ROY's in a row(not 100%), and we were going to the playoffs every year. This year is different for the Dodgers. We once again have the best farm system in the majors. If we can return to the old ways, i.e. developing the young talent and then keeping them, we'll return to the playoff's consistently. As for Jeter, he could have been from any other team and still be in the Hall. He's a winner. He's a clubhouse leader and a field general. Those players thrive anywhere. Take A-rod for instance, Seattle, Texas, and finally New York. Jeter's route would have been very similar. I agree with you on the statement that Shapiro will lose guys to the "powers that be" unless he signs them to long term deals. I just don't think that judging a player by one year is smart baseball. Even if they win the ROY, give them another year before you start penciling them in for the next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] Hey I found a stat for you. Sizeless was 11th in the AL in On base % among leadoff hitters and tied for 10th in BA. Whats up with that? [/ QUOTE ] Really, that's not bad for a guy just breaking into the league. Thanks again for making my point. and again, there's more that stats in the REALITY of sports...save FANTASY for Lord of the Rings nerds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCH Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] Thanks again for making my point. [/ QUOTE ] Well, I'm glad someone's helping you out 'cause you're sure not doing it on your own..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted March 30, 2006 Report Share Posted March 30, 2006 Re: Indians sign Grady Sizemore... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Hey I found a stat for you. Sizeless was 11th in the AL in On base % among leadoff hitters and tied for 10th in BA. Whats up with that? [/ QUOTE ] Really, that's not bad for a guy just breaking into the league. Thanks again for making my point. and again, there's more that stats in the REALITY of sports...save FANTASY for Lord of the Rings nerds. [/ QUOTE ] Ummmm bud, how many leadoff hitters do you think there are in the AL? Oh and here we go with the stats again, this coming about 1 hour after you fed me Sizeless's whole stat line from last year in an effort to defend how good he was. Nice try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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