wtnhunt Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres Just heard on the news they have him on 23 charges. According to the law enforcement official the media was speaking with this piece of filth will be in a Florida prison for a very long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres typical, can't say I expected anything else. This nation was founded with the rights of citizen's in mind, and today, our citizens are completely fine with their rights being slowing chipped and stripped away. again....this is not about child molesters....I'm glad they caught him, and I hope they string him up....but once you allow Constitutional rights to be compromised, you'll never get those rights back.... you all can be the sheep....old muggsy's gonna be the sheperd. Let me shout out a resounding UGGGGHHHH from Ohio....my point is a clear one, and you all keep spouting off about...he's a child molester, he's a child molester...child molester read the words...it's not about that. It is however about, the Bill of Rights, the Bill of Rights, the Bill of Rights. Who's talking about child molesters anyway....I know I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I am a teacher and you are my student. It is inappropriate for us to email each other on a personal basis. If you have a question or need something that requires the enternet please have one of your parents email me and I will respond as quickly as I can. Please do not eamail me anymore. [/ QUOTE ] When I send this email I send a copy to myself and save it to a folder along with the original email from the student. I do this to avoid 5 little words........................"Will the defendant please rise." [/ QUOTE ] Now that's what I call having a bit of forsight Smart thing to do. [ QUOTE ] According to the law enforcement official the media was speaking with this piece of filth will be in a Florida prison for a very long time. [/ QUOTE ] Good news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] Even when a cop in disguise (posing as a hooker) waves over potential customers, it's not entrapment. If an innocent guy pulls over and says, "do you need help mam?"....He doesn't get arrested now does he. [/ QUOTE ] Heaven for bid you every have a lack of judgement Buckee. Maybe the guy is having a horrible time, maybe his wife just left him, maybe he's feeling suicidal? Maybe he's never gotten any attention from a women because he's not attractive to them?? And then he sees a half naked attractive women calling him over. His judgement laspses....and now he's arrested and his reputation is ruined. Would he have gotten a hooker if she wasn't standing right in front of him, probably not....THAT'S ENTRAPMENT. Now if a cop wants to put out a phone number to an escort services and man elects to call....then that situation would warrant a legal arrest. You see, the U.S. Constitutional can be followed and arrest can be made legally. It's all a matter of upholding the founding principles of this nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] Heaven for bid you every have a lack of judgement Buckee. Maybe the guy is having a horrible time, maybe his wife just left him, maybe he's feeling suicidal? Maybe he's never gotten any attention from a women because he's not attractive to them?? And then he sees a half naked attractive women calling him over. His judgement laspses....and now he's arrested and his reputation is ruined. [colour:"green"] Would he have gotten a hooker if she wasn't standing right in front of him, probably not....THAT'S ENTRAPMENT.[/colour] Now if a cop wants to put out a phone number to an escort services and man elects to call....then that situation would warrant a legal arrest. You see, the U.S. Constitutional can be followed and arrest can be made legally. It's all a matter of upholding the founding principles of this nation. [/ QUOTE ] What if that prostitute on the corner wasn't a cop Muggs. The same guy in the same situation is going to pull over and solicit her. It's illegal to solicit prostitution. Your just making excuses for them Muggs. Law is law. If I break the law, for whatever reason, I broke the law period. When I go to court, it's up to the judge to sort out the why's, if's when's and where's. It's not entrapment, because if you put a real hooker on the same corner, the same guy is going to pull over. In the same way, if that was a real 14 year old girl on the internet, instead of a cop, that guy would have bit the bait in the same way. The only difference there would be that the guy probably wouldn't get caught. If your gonna to catch sharks , ya gotta use shark bait, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] Law is law. [/ QUOTE ] yes it is, that's precisely what I'm saying Buckee. And law prohibits U.S. Citizens from being entrapped into illegal activety by law enforcement. So in fact, entrapment is breaking the LAW. You're doing nothing but supporting my arguement by making a statement like that. and please don't sell me sort and excuse me of making excuses for such people. I've already spent a great deal of energy to make it clear that I'm in no way supporting people who solicite minors, and/or prostitutes. I've already typed countless words to make sure my point, that I'm supporting the Bill of Rights here, not this guy or anyone else, comes across clear. just because the person in question here was committing a disgusting act....gives no one the right to compromise Constitutional Rights...don't take that from me....take it from the Constitution itself. after all....law is law right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres Sorry Muggs, I wasn't trying to make you look bad. I understand perfectly what your saying. It would be entrapment if the police disguised themselves as a prostitute and went to the guys home and knocked on his door, "Maybe" but hardly out in the public. Like I said above, If it was a real prostitute standing on that corning at that same time of day, the exact same guy would have pulled over. Same thing with the 14 year old child on the internet. It's hardly entrapment Muggs. It's more like being in the right spot, at the right time, to catch these people in the act of what they would have done anyway, even if you weren't there. I'm sorry bud, I didn't mean to belittle you, but I really can't even think of a senario involving a 14 year old girl and a 55 year old man, where you could consider it entrapment, unless you tied him down and threw a 14 year old on top of him, but even then I can't see it being entrapment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted April 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres muggs, I DO understand the point you are trying to make about entrapment, but there is NO WAY this dirt bag was entrapped. The way I interpret what you are saying is that is how you feel what may have transpired here. According to the latest report I read, HE did IN FACT initiate contact, not her. But like I have said, even if she did initiate contact, as soon as he found out her age, he should have cut all ties, then he would not be in the mess he is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres No problem Buckee, I think we all know it can get a little heated in here. If the undercover agents initiated the sexual aspect of the conversation, it's absolutely entrapment. Just because he was going along with it, doesn't mean its not. This is law. You can't say law is law, and then say well lets break the law to catch these guys over. It doesn't work like that, at least not Constitutionally. Entrapment is as illegal as soliciting a minor. That's the bottomline...so basically what you saying is it's OK to break the law in some ways but not in others. Now I ask you, with this sort of liberal interpretation of the Constitution, where does it stop. Do you trust our politicians to interpret your rights for you? Maybe next they'll decide to take our guns, maybe then you all will see the "big picture" I've been talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted April 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] If the undercover agents initiated the sexual aspect of the conversation, it's absolutely entrapment. Just because he was going along with it, doesn't mean its not. [/ QUOTE ] if that's the case, guess he is dumber than a box of rocks. Tell me, what business does a 55yr old man have talking with a 14yr old girl? Unless he is her teacher, relative, coach, or police, IMO, none at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] muggs, I DO understand the point you are trying to make about entrapment, but there is NO WAY this dirt bag was entrapped. The way I interpret what you are saying is that is how you feel what may have transpired here. According to the latest report I read, HE did IN FACT initiate contact, not her. But like I have said, even if she did initiate contact, as soon as he found out her age, he should have cut all ties, then he would not be in the mess he is in. [/ QUOTE ] Without a doubt, and it sounds like this SOB is guilty as sin. These types turn my stomach more than anything, and I'm glad they got him. This whole thing has sorta turned into a debate about what is entrapment....hijacked you might say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres Dont think this has anything to do with the constitution or taking away any rights. This guy was not solicited, he was not entrapped. He went lookingfor something he should never have and got caught. PERIOD! He did not have to get on his computer and respond to the person(he knew was under age), he did not have to ask her to buy a webcam, he should rot in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 5, 2006 Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] This whole thing has sorta turned into a debate about what is entrapment....hijacked you might say. [/ QUOTE ] Let's discuss entrapment then [ QUOTE ] ENTRAPMENT: In jurisprudence, entrapment is a procedural defense by which a defendant may argue that they should not be held criminally liable for actions which broke the law, because they were induced (or entrapped) by the police to commit said acts. For the defense to be successful, the defendant must demonstrate that the police induced an otherwise unwilling person to commit a crime. ... LEGAL DEFINITION OF ENTRAPMENT - A person is 'entrapped' when he is induced or persuaded by law enforcement officers or their agents to commit a crime that he had no previous intent to commit; and the law as a matter of policy forbids conviction in such a case. However, there is no entrapment where a person is ready and willing to break the law and the Government agents merely provide what appears to be a favorable opportunity for the person to commit the crime. For example, it is not entrapment for a Government agent to pretend to be someone else and to offer, either directly or through an informer or other decoy, to engage in an unlawful transaction with the person. So, a person would not be a victim of entrapment if the person was ready, willing and able to commit the crime charged in the indictment whenever opportunity was afforded, and that Government officers or their agents did no more than offer an opportunity. On the other hand, if the evidence leaves a reasonable doubt whether the person had any intent to commit the crime except for inducement or persuasion on the part of some Government officer or agent, then the person is not guilty. In slightly different words: Even though someone may have [sold drugs], as charged by the government, if it was the result of entrapment then he is not guilty. Government agents entrapped him if three things occurred: - First, the idea for committing the crime came from the government agents and not from the person accused of the crime. - Second, the government agents then persuaded or talked the person into committing the crime. Simply giving him the opportunity to commit the crime is not the same as persuading him to commit the crime. - And third, the person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him. On the issue of entrapment the government must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant was not entrapped by government agents. [/ QUOTE ] In this case it's the same as if the DNR put a deer decoy out in a field and someone came along and shot it from the road, or at night. Hardly entrapment, is it. True, if the decoy had not been there, there would have been no crime commited, but it is obvious, that if indeed a real deer was standing in the same field, at the same time, a crime would have been commited. ................. [ QUOTE ] - And third, the person was not ready and willing to commit the crime before the government agents spoke with him. [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted April 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres Good post buckee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres the fact is, he had the free will, and the legal duty, to tell any 14 year old girl to go away. he chased her, he got caught, and he'll do the time for his crime. simple as that, and justifiably so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres Law enforcement Officers have the legal right to lie, and misrepresent thier statements in order to catch a crimanal..... The only things they can't do is abuse or promise something in return.... Lying and trickery is a law enforcement agents number one tatic and has been for years.... The FBI has been using computer trickery for years to catch pornography and pedifiles for years and quite sucessfully I might add, and the conviction rate is (I'm glad to say) quite high... The intrapment therory of the law hasn't existed for quite some time now..... So ultimately this idiot (scumbag) hasn't a legal leg to stand on and I hope he frie's for his acts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted April 6, 2006 Report Share Posted April 6, 2006 Re: Homeland Security Deputy Press Secretary arres [ QUOTE ] In this case it's the same as if the DNR put a deer decoy out in a field and someone came along and shot it from the road, or at night. Hardly entrapment, is it. True, if the decoy had not been there, there would have been no crime commited, but it is obvious, that if indeed a real deer was standing in the same field, at the same time, a crime would have been commited [/ QUOTE ] Actually Buckee that can easily be considered entrapment.They had to cut back on the size of the deers antlers and start watching where they put it out around here. If the antlers are record sized they create a situation that otherwise might not exist, meaning the majority of the deer in most areas dont hold record size antlers. And a buddy of my uncles got arrested for shooting one.But, the decoy was set up in public hunting grounds, on the private side of the fence.Only problem was you couldnt see the fence in that spot and theres no way to tell where the deer is actually at from the public side. And he stepped out of his truck to shoot it.He was still on the road, but again it was a public hunting area, so is the road a driveway or a road, or a parking lot?The DNR wasnt even sure when I emailed them to ask because almost everyone walks these roads and shoots from them. Guesse what Im saying is I can see where Muggs is coming from.It probably doesnt apply in this case but yes, even with a 14 yr old girl and a 55 yr old man rules have to be followed or it is entrapment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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