Crossbow Facts **

[buckee]

CROSSBOW FACTS:

1. The modern hunting crossbow delivers approximately the same ballistic performance with a 500-grain arrow/broadhead combination as a 65-70 pound compound bow.

2. Like the vertical bow, the crossbow launches an arrow by a forward movement of limbs and string. The limbs (draw-weight) on a crossbow must be heavier because the power stroke is so much shorter than that of a modern compound bow.

3. Crossbows have proven to be a good recruitment tool for bringing youth and women into hunting. They are also an excellent way to enable older hunters to remain in the field bowhunting for many years.

4. The crossbow hunting opportunity has proven to greatly enhance management programs in urban/suburban areas (where firearms use is restricted or illegal) with high deer herd concentrations.

5. After being included in the entire archery season for twenty-six years in the state of Ohio and thirty years in Arkansas, crossbow hunters have proven to be just as safe and ethical as vertical bowhunters.

6. Like any other shooting skill, using a crossbow safely and accurately will require a combination of old and well-learned knowledge, as well as new information specific to the weapon.

7. Most crossbow safety is obvious and relates to common sense issues taught during a fundamental hunter education training session.

8. Crossbows have been described as “being more like a rifle than a hand-held bow”. While crossbows are indeed, aimed like a rifle, they lack the noise, flash, odor, recoil, range, accuracy and kinetic energy of a hunting rifle.

9. Through license fees and the retail sales of crossbows, their accessories, related products (treestands, camo clothing, scents, arrows, broadheads, etc.) and hunting recreational travel expenditures incurred, this increased hunting opportunity offers positive financial impact for the state.

10. Furthermore, hunting with the crossbow has been proven by men, women and youngsters, of all

ages, to be a wonderful and enjoyable pastime.

[muggs]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

CROSSBOW FACTS:

5. After being included in the entire archery season for twenty-six years in the state of Ohio and thirty years in Arkansas, crossbow hunters have proven to be just as safe and ethical as vertical bowhunters.

[/ QUOTE ]

and the herd size has increased every year. I don't use a crossbow anymore, but I taught myself how to hunt with one when I was a teenager. I'm glad I did because I learn how to ethically harvest deer with it. And then moved on to my compound, which I think is just as easy to handle as a crossbow.

[rossman]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Great Buckee!!!! Thanks for that enlightning post!!!!

[snapper]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

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Great Buckee!!!! Thanks for that enlightning post!!!!

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Glad I wasn't the only one who enjoyed that...yes, thanks Buckee!

[LifeNRA]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

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Great Buckee!!!! Thanks for that enlightning post!!!!

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Glad I wasn't the only one who enjoyed that...yes, thanks Buckee!

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[VtBowhunter]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Great post, Steve.

One big misconception I've noticed is that a crossbow is more powerful then a compound, and that's actually false.

[Guest stsi36]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

great post thanks man

[py_archer]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Crossbows are ok with me.Use whatever weapon you want, long as it's in fair chase, just get the lingo right. When you people say bow and arrow, thats what people think of, not a crossbow and bolt. It's actually quite common, someone proclaims "got him with the bow", then when they stumble in their answers talking to someone that actually knows something they'll admit "well, I used a crossbow". Not sayin anyone here said that, just try'n to explain how annoying it is. Kinda like shootin a Coot and calling it a Black Duck. Maybe someone can explain to me why crossbow hunters do that?

[Adjam5]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

I have no problem with crossguns oops! theres that word again, I can't help it. Crossbows.

I am a vertical archer OK?

I do feel they are easier to master, but that is not the issue here. Here in NYS one needs to be literally a quadraplegic to get permission to use a x bow with a breath trigger!. That should be changed.

Many hurt and older archers could extend their seasons and be able to continue hunting with a x bow. In NYS there should be a separate season for each implement, like there is now.

If a x bow season is implemented in NYS, I would hope they would make a season for it on its own, and not take away from existing seasons.

Anything that brings in more hunters to the ranks without alienating existing hunters I am all for.

Hunt Safe!

[Tominator]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

Maybe someone can explain to me why crossbow hunters do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't know PY. I can tell you what I think. Crossbows just carry the stigma of being easier to use I think. I was guilty of that when I started bowhunting. The guy that got me into bowhunting tainted me I guess. I still hunt with him, and he's the same way now as he was back then. He just has something against "crossbow Joe's."

I can remember going to a qualifying shoot for a controlled hunt down at the Dawes Arboretum in Licking county a few years ago. Everyone had to put 5 arrows in the kill zone from 20 yards. The range master called "all archers to the firing line" or something like that. You wouldn't believe the reaction of some of the crossbow hunters. 1/2 of them bowed their heads and looked like whipped puppies. One of the guys was standing right next to me, and his buddy (who was shooting a long bow) actually said to him "come on man, that's you, there's nothing wrong with that crossbow."

Over the years I've been able to look at it objectively, and I think some crossbow users use it for convenience. They don't have the time to devote to getting proficient with a longbow. Tom's buddy Woody and his dad are like that, they don't have the time to practice, so they either don't go out, or they take the crossbow. My cousin is like that too. He has a compound and a crossbow and chooses to take the crossbow for the most part. All of those guys are the furthest thing away from a "slob" hunter.

I guess in the end, a lot of guys that use vertical bows have an elitist attitude that they're better than crossbow guys, and therefore if you use a crossbow you take on that attitude and thus you feel ashamed of your choice of weapon. A lot of state agencies don't help with that attitude, as there are laws against crossbow use in a majority of states throughout the U.S.

I think if those state agencies looked at Ohio's numbers and statistics, they might change their attitudes towards the crossbow, and maybe they'd change some minds. I know I've changed my feelings towards the crossbow over the years.

[BigDog]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

My dad uses a crossbow, You can still miss just like a compound,I don't have a problem with them as long as hunters use them the proper way. If you need to use one use it. I personly like my compound over dads crossbow and so does he, but he has a bad back, so he can't use a compound bow

[ODH]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

In my opinion, there is nothing wrong with using a crossbow as long as it's legal. Just look at Ohio's deer population.

[rossman]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

Great post, Steve.

One big misconception I've noticed is that a crossbow is more powerful then a compound, and that's actually false.

[/ QUOTE ]

how is that false? What's the max poundage for a typical cross-bow compared to a compound? Last I knew you needed two arms to pull a crossbow back, while holding the cross-bow down with your foot. or a hand crank to get it back.

I really don't know, I was always under the impression that an arrow shot out on a cross-bow is much faster than a compound bow? Is this true or no?

--rossman

[Tominator]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Great post, Steve.

One big misconception I've noticed is that a crossbow is more powerful then a compound, and that's actually false.

[/ QUOTE ]

how is that false? What's the max poundage for a typical cross-bow compared to a compound? Last I knew you needed two arms to pull a crossbow back, while holding the cross-bow down with your foot. or a hand crank to get it back.

I really don't know, I was always under the impression that an arrow shot out on a cross-bow is much faster than a compound bow? Is this true or no?

--rossman

[/ QUOTE ]

I found this real quick. It's a sales sheet for a Barnes x-bow and its advertised speed is 340 fps. Some compounds shoot that fast pulling considerably less. Add to that the reduced weight of a bolt vs. an arrow, and you have probably close to equal kinetic energy.

It's all in the physics rossman, and, dare I say, further proof that crossbows are not the weapon that a lot of folks think they are.

[LifeNRA]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Great post, Steve.

One big misconception I've noticed is that a crossbow is more powerful then a compound, and that's actually false.

[/ QUOTE ]

how is that false? What's the max poundage for a typical cross-bow compared to a compound? Last I knew you needed two arms to pull a crossbow back, while holding the cross-bow down with your foot. or a hand crank to get it back.

I really don't know, I was always under the impression that an arrow shot out on a cross-bow is much faster than a compound bow? Is this true or no?

--rossman

[/ QUOTE ]

I found this real quick. It's a sales sheet for a Barnes x-bow and its advertised speed is 340 fps. Some compounds shoot that fast pulling considerably less. Add to that the reduced weight of a bolt vs. an arrow, and you have probably close to equal kinetic energy.

It's all in the physics rossman, and, dare I say, further proof that crossbows are not the weapon that a lot of folks think they are.

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My arrows are supposed to be flying out of my Parker Pheonix at 310 FPS, Dad's Xbow is 330 FPS. They do look like they are flying really fast, but I think too its because of the smaller bolt. They are only 20 inches long. Not sure if there is enough retained energy to kill a deer quickly enough at 40 yards. But here lies the problem, neither of us never had a weapon like this! This is all soooo new to us! But we will see this September!

[TreeWalker]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

I really don't know, I was always under the impression that an arrow shot out on a cross-bow is much faster than a compound bow? Is this true or no?

--rossman

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It is NOT true.....most cross bows are considerably slower and have a lot less effective range compared to a compound.....I know that several of the guys I know that have them are shooting through the chrono at 245-250 FPS......and thats with a short bolt.......

Crossbows in my opinion are harder to shoot efficiently......their only benifit is no holding weight, but that is really not that big of deal, when you look at all the other things you are sacrificing performance wise...........

I'm sure there are some gorrila crossbows out there that can get up in that 300fps range, but trust me, there is a great sacrifice in acquriing it also.......

I've looked at the stats often, and there is no evidence what so ever showing that a crossbow is easier or faster to shoot than a compound.....it's just not true.....in fact they are often harder to shoot than a compound....

[ODH]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I really don't know, I was always under the impression that an arrow shot out on a cross-bow is much faster than a compound bow? Is this true or no?

--rossman

[/ QUOTE ]

It is NOT true.....most cross bows are considerably slower and have a lot less effective range compared to a compound.....I know that several of the guys I know that have them are shooting through the chrono at 245-250 FPS......and thats with a short bolt.......

Crossbows in my opinion are harder to shoot efficiently......their only benifit is no holding weight, but that is really not that big of deal, when you look at all the other things you are sacrificing performance wise...........

I'm sure there are some gorrila crossbows out there that can get up in that 300fps range, but trust me, there is a great sacrifice in acquriing it also.......

I've looked at the stats often, and there is no evidence what so ever showing that a crossbow is easier or faster to shoot than a compound.....it's just not true.....in fact they are often harder to shoot than a compound....

[/ QUOTE ]very true

[LifeNRA]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

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Crossbows in my opinion are harder to shoot efficiently

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I never shot one until my father got one two weeks ago. I will say this, it was way more accurate than any bow I have shot so far! 25 yards and shooting the bulls-eye on almost every shot! We were worried about wreaking bolts!

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there is no evidence what so ever showing that a crossbow is easier or faster to shoot than a compound.....it's just not true.....in fact they are often harder to shoot than a compound....

[/ QUOTE ]

We shot them in the store, and on the range. These bolts were flying way faster than any of my arrows! My bow is set at 60 pounds, I am supposed to be around 310 FPS, so the book says. Dads Xbow is 330 FPS. I really wish I had a chrono to check this. But we both aggreed, the Xbow was faster! But his down range energy is a lot weaker at 30-40 yards than mine. I am not trying to glorify Xbows, but I was VERY impressed with how fast, quiet, and accurate this thing was! On top of all that, it was VERY EASY to shoot!!! Almost to the point I was thinking about getting one just to play with!

[rossman]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

I went to cabelas to check the top speed of their x-bows and they ranged from 320 fps to about 360 fps. The average speed for any of these cross bows is much faster compared to the bows they had listed. Plus, with a x-bow you can hold the string back indefinatually. I would call this stored energy. I guess you can store energy with a compound?

I don't know if I believe that a x-bow is not more effective than a compound? When hunting with a cross bow, there is less movement, considering the string is cranked back then locked in place. At this point all one needs to do is point and shoot. Not, wait till a deer puts his head down, looks away or gets behing a tree to draw. This is the difference I see.

Remember, all due respect, just my opinion, and of course anyone can hunt with any weapon of their choosing, even a bow staff!!!!!--rossman

[Doc]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

I don't believe that there is anyway that anyone could ever convince me that crossbow shooting is anywhere near as demanding as a vertical bow in terms of practice requirements and physical discipline of all the elements of form control and consistency that only comes from shooting dedication and practice. That one feature makes the crossbow the perfect transition weapon for gunhunters to enter the special seasons that have been traditionally reserved for bow use. So if we are interested in moving gun hunters into our bow seasons, then legalizing crossbows during archery seasons is the best way to achieve that. The Ohio stats since their introduction of crossbows into their bow seasons shows that quite clearly.

I will absolutely admit that gunners picking up the crossbow are giving up some elements of accuracy, and certainly giving up range, but the fact that they can participate in the early season without all the time consuming fuss and discipline of shooting a vertical bow makes those concessions acceptable and certainly will lure many gunhunters into the bow seasons. So, do we really wind up with more over-all hunter numbers because of crossbows? No, not really. We are just moving the same hunters around by filling up the bowseason with gunhunters. I'm not so sure that the quality of bowhunting is going to be improved by doing that.

Now, I realize that people who own their own bowhunting lands and can control the numbers of hunters there, or have situations where bowhunters are rather thinly populated for one reason or another, probably don't give a darn about all this. But, those of us who are already feeling the pinch of heavy competition for bowhunting space where we can apply a bit of scouting, patterning and science to our bowhunting, such as those who hunt heavily pressured public lands might not be quite as enthusiastic about suddenly swelling the ranks of bowhunters through an infusion of gunhunters. Yes, that may sound a bit selfish and maybe it is, but it is the very nature of bowhunting that demands that we each have reasonable spacing between bowhunters in order to have a chance of being successful by virtue of good planning rather than simply good luck. Yes, if we want to turn bowhunting into the same atmosphere as gunhunting where more is better, and rely on hunting pressure for our success, filling up the bowseasons would probably be a good thing. Perhaps, as private land hunting access dwindles, this what the future of bowhunting is destined to become anyway. However, I would like to delay that change to bowhunting quality for as long as possible.

Doc

[rossman]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Doc,

where were you last week???

Very well put, I couldn't agree more!!!!!!

--rossman

[wtnhunt]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Great response Doc. Tennessee made crossbows legal archery equipment last year. I kind of liked how it was before where crossbows were legal during the muzzleloader and gun only hunts but not during the archery with the exception of those who were deemed unable to use a bow by a physician. A crossbow while it might be challenging to hunt with is already loaded and ready to fire unlike a bow that has to be drawn. Drawing a bow on a wise old buck or on a mature wary doe is part of what makes bow hunting a challenge and why I will continue not using a crossbow even though it is now legal here.

[RangerClay]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Great post Buckee!!!!!

I look forward to the day that I can use a crossbow here in NY. It would give me some aditional time in the deer woods and an extra tag.

Ranger

[Tominator]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

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I would call this stored energy. I guess you can store energy with a compound?

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As soon as you draw and hold a bow, you have stored energy.

[muggs]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Compounds have been so glorified by mainstream media it's digusting. If Waddell was shooting a crossbow, everyone would have one and praise it.

Fact of the matter is, a compound is hardley any different than a crossbow. You're shooting with a mechcanical release...with a let-off...wow, hey, slow down ther macho man.

Sure you have to draw it back, I'll give you that, a small obstacle to say the least.

I hunt with a compound because I enjoy it more. That's also way I hunt, but apparently others hunt to feel superior over others? I see it in most of the outdoor pursuits I choose to take part in.

I guess I'm part of the group that has the "elitist" mentality. I fish with a fly rod, and I personaly know several guys who label spin rodders "meat hunters" "snaggers" you named it. I also hunt with a lot of compound hunters that feel the same way about crossbow hunters...they call them "x-guns" use terms like "reserved for bow"....

I'm always puzzled and perplexed by this sort of behavior. Why is there always I need to think what you do is alwyas far superior than others?

As long as the hunter/fisherman in question respects the game pursued...and the environment in which he's blessed to be in...I don't have a problem with the way he goes about it.

He has just as much right to be out there as I do. And lets face it, we're only talking about harvesting deer here boys...there's more important things to worry about.

Let's work to drop this elitist mindset, and focus and what really matters...protecting our rights to enjoy the outdoors. If crossbows allow "gun hunters" to more easliy make the transition to the bow world...that's a good thing. There's strenght in numbers fellas, and I would guess the anti's outnumber us 10:1...

There will be enough deer to go around, let's focus on what counts and save the debate.