BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Buckee: Touche'..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The reason why I choose to refer to the weapon as a crossgun rather than crossbow, is in my opinion, it resembles and operates more like a gun than a true bow. [/ QUOTE ] A more factual statement would be that a modern day gun resembles and operates more like the crossbow. Which came first, the chicken or the egg ? [/ QUOTE ] Good call buckee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Just so you boys don't feel this is a West coast mentality thing, I attached a link that you might find interesting. Here's some more facts johnf. www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Being born and raised with bows, I'm of a totally different opinion then BOHNTR. The crossbow came long before guns and isn't even as powerful as a bow. It was put in for bowhunting season due to it being a primitive weapon, and the fact that it shoots very much the same as a bow, with the exception that it's locked into the drawn position. Since that seems to be the reason you don't like them, would you have draw-lock bows banned from bowseason as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] Obviously the 150lb crossbow....start practicing with it and get ready for the primitive and/or general season. [/ QUOTE ] Crossbow is legal archery equiptment in Arkansas for all hunters and I use it in archery only season as perscribed by the AGF commition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] and the fact that it shoots very much the same as a bow, with the exception that it's locked into the drawn position. Since that seems to be the reason you don't like them, would you have draw-lock bows banned from bowseason as well? [/ QUOTE ] Good point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leo Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** All anti-crossbow talk is driven by one thing. N.I.M.S.S. This stands for Not In My Special Season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Leave it to LEO to put it in simple terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** johnf: If it's legal there, have fun and enjoy yourself! Doesn't mean I have to agree with it though. Vtbowhunter: Yes sir, I am against the draw-lock in bow-only seasons. I noticed you used the term "primitive weapon". I agree with that term as it pertains to the crossbow (for you john ) . As a result, I support them in a primitive (flintlock, muzzeloader, pistol, etc.) season. Just not bow-only seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] Just so you boys don't feel this is a West coast mentality thing, I attached a link that you might find interesting. Here's some more facts johnf. www.newyorkbowhunters.com/New_Folder/xbow.htm [/ QUOTE ] Those are some intersting opinions, but certainly not facts. Why didn't you just send me to the B&C websight. I would have gotten the same info. spun in the same way. Yes I can shoot a 6" group with my crossbow at 60yards. But the bolt has lost so much kenetic energy at that distance that it is not effective. My personal limit is 35 yards that I would feel is an ethical shot with my bow. What is yours? One arguement on that websight is that the crossbow is effective out to 60 yards. That simply is not true. You say at one point that they are not effective, then the say they are more effective. You can't have it both ways. I bet I could get the same argument against centerfire ML during ML season somewhere. Your not convencing me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] I noticed you used the term "primitive weapon". I agree with that term as it pertains to the crossbow [/ QUOTE ] longbows, flatbows, recurve bows and crossbows are all primitive weapons and were around long before muzzle loaders and flintlocks. If they (whoever they are ) are going to use the Primitive weapon category against crossbows, etc, why don't they do it right. Put all Longbows, flatbows, recurves and crossbows, in one season, and then the new fan-dangle crossbows and compounds in another. Do it right, or don't do it at all .. (Just my opinion and I'm being sarcastic here) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** john: Please don't confuse my intent here. I've never tried to convince you of anything....sorry you felt that way. I simply gave my opinion on the issue and tried to explain why "I" feel the way I do. I respect your opinion.....and I won't label YOU. It's been a good debate guys....It's refreshing to see people pasionate about the sport, no matter what their weapon choice or season they are allowed to hunt in. Good luck this season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Can you steady a x-bow on a log or shooting stick? Of course you can!!! Can you steady a compound bow in the same manner? No, of course not. So why can't any of you pro x-bow hunters aknowledge that using a cross-bow is easier and more effective than using a compound? This is what I do not understand? It's confusing!!!!!! Please explain it to me!!!!!! --rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** I've faced the bitter truth....I'm a slob hunter because I dont prefer one "Tool" over another to hunt with. I'm reffering to one of the same arguements... that the NYB uses against crossbows... [ QUOTE ] "The presence of any superior implement defeats the purpose of the archery seasons. The crossbow manufacturers will argue that the crossbow will bring more hunters into the sport. They are absolutely correct; the crossbow will bring people into the sport that are not interested in bowhunting, they are only interested in taking advantage of the early bow season". ...."When all I owned was shotguns and rifles...I bought a compound Bow to take advantage of an earlier season". [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] "Some archers bowhunt for the challenge of close range encounters with game, others bowhunt to take advantage of the early season and the additional opportunity to bag a deer. But what all these bowhunters have in common is the dedication to learn their equipment and to accept the challenge of getting within ethical range of their game". [/ QUOTE ] I'm fairly sure crossbow hunters would never desire to be ethical or want to do the same thing FYI....In the Big Picture THEIR ALL TOOLS to HUNT with. 1 a : a handheld device that aids in accomplishing a task b (1) : the cutting or shaping part in a machine or machine tool (2) : a machine for shaping metal 2 a : something (as an instrument or apparatus) used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession, a means to an end 3 : one that is used or manipulated by another 4 plural : natural ability Hint, Hint, Hint....After using your own hands to kill something with...THEIR ALL NON-TRADITIONAL TOOLS I've recently discussed this topic with a good friend: He says that "Facts" are indisputeable...I completely agree! The Fact is unless your killing with your bare hands...your using TOOLS ...Get over your this or that and Hunt with it It's so tiring being Emotional... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] and the fact that it shoots very much the same as a bow, with the exception that it's locked into the drawn position. Since that seems to be the reason you don't like them, would you have draw-lock bows banned from bowseason as well? [/ QUOTE ] Good point [/ QUOTE ] Draw locks ARE illegal most everywhere a crossgun, (opps! there is that word again...) is not a legal implement, such as here in NYS. Why?, it is a form of a crossgun if the string is locked back. One would need a disabled hunter permit from the NYS DEC to hunt with the use of a draw lock, and you would have to prove that you could not draw back a bow to get a permit to use a draw lock or cross b b b b bow See I said it, it was hard to do , but I did it, UNDER PROTEST! Kind of like Fonzie saying sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] All anti-crossbow talk is driven by one thing. N.I.M.S.S. This stands for Not In My Special Season. [/ QUOTE ] LMAO....you nailed it Leo. I have to rember that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Rossman, BOHUNTR... obviously you guys think crossbows have some form of advantage over compounds. I'd agree with you, although in my opinion, it's a small advantage. now, let me ask you both...SO WHAT? It's not a competition boys...just because you choose to hunt with a weapon that puts you at a disadvantage (in your minds) why do other have to conform to your ideals. Not everyone hunts for the same reasons. My hunting buddy has served in the Army special forces for 24 years...has fought in three foriegn conflicts, and has done things that I can only imagine....and he hunts with a crossbow...why? My guess is that he has things in perspective. He hunts to enjoy nature, and Lord willing, harvest a deer for table fair. To him it's not all about getting a deer, he likes other things that go along with it. He's attitude has opened my own eyes, and I lost the elitest attitude long ago. If others choose to take a crossbow out to enjoy the hunting experience, I understand because I'm the same as them. Debating and fighting over what legal weapon a guy is using takes away from what it's all about...and I don't let that happen. If it matters that much to you, maybe you're hunting for the wrong reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drkillemquick Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** This is just another division in the hunting community that anti's will jump on, divide and conquer! Some don't like hunting with dogs, some don't like handguns, some don't like the new style muzzle loaders, some see food plots as baiting. Too bad, as long as everybody follows their respective laws, I support them. My father used to bow hunt with me however after breaking his collarbone a few years ago he can not comfortable shoot his compound anymore and had to sell it. He now has a crossbow, and I support him. I would rather have somebody shooting a crossbow well, at a deer, than somebody that shoots a compound poorly anyday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] Rossman, BOHUNTR... obviously you guys think crossbows have some form of advantage over compounds. I'd agree with you, although in my opinion, it's a small advantage. now, let me ask you both...SO WHAT? [/ QUOTE ] So what? OK... lets use a gun in bow season...so what if it has an advantage. Most game commisions have determined that certain weapons have certain advatages over others. That is most likely the reason that archery comes first and works its way down to rifle or shotgun. Atleast that is the way it is here in NYS. How do other seasons start elsewhere? Why is is that when someone don't agree with a opinion, you are called an elitist? This BB is for points of view, and BOY are you getting them. Imagine if everyone thought the same way...this would be one boring world. I am glad there are different points of view, it stimulates the mind regardless of stance on issues. There has been some good and healthy conversation on this topic. Let me ask the pro crossguners something? If the crossgun is NOT legal in your state to hunt with, what have you done to promote it and get it legalized in your state? If it is only legal to hunt with, if you are disabled with a permit, then have you wrote,called or lobbied a politico or game commision to allow the use of cross b b b bows.( I'm trying) for whatever season you feel it should be in for non disabled people? I know I belong to a large organization that supports what I believe in...Ain't America great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Rossman, BOHUNTR... obviously you guys think crossbows have some form of advantage over compounds. I'd agree with you, although in my opinion, it's a small advantage. now, let me ask you both...SO WHAT? [/ QUOTE ] So what? OK... lets use a gun in bow season...so what if it has an advantage. Most game commisions have determined that certain weapons have certain advatages over others. That is most likely the reason that archery comes first and works its way down to rifle or shotgun. Atleast that is the way it is here in NYS. How do other seasons start elsewhere? Why is is that when someone don't agree with a opinion, you are called an elitist? This BB is for points of view, and BOY are you getting them. Imagine if everyone thought the same way...this would be one boring world. I am glad there are different points of view, it stimulates the mind regardless of stance on issues. There has been some good and healthy conversation on this topic. Let me ask the pro crossguners something? If the crossgun is NOT legal in your state to hunt with, what have you done to promote it and get it legalized in your state? If it is only legal to hunt with, if you are disabled with a permit, then have you wrote,called or lobbied a politico or game commision to allow the use of cross b b b bows.( I'm trying) for whatever season you feel it should be in for non disabled people? I know I belong to a large organization that supports what I believe in...Ain't America great! [/ QUOTE ] Comparing rifles and crossbows is not exactly a fair comparison. The point is, so what if one weapon has slightly different advantages then the other. I can tell you right now there are advantages in the compound you shoot over the compound I shoot and the longbow that the guy down the street shoots and vice versa. There are a heck of alot of different advantages in someone using a .44 pistol to the guy using an open sighted .243 to the guy using a .308 with a 9 power scope in the same rifle season. Just because weapons have their difference's, especially when the differences are minimal as they are between a crossbow and compound, does not mean they need their own season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Honestly, this deal about us dividing ourselves and helping the anti's because we disagree on classification of weapons is a bunch of bull!!!!!! Again, no one is saying that cross-bows should not be used at all. We just disagree what season they should be permitted. Good healthy debate brings us all together and gives everyone more respect for "their" weapon of choice!!!! We may disagree on things but at the end of the day we will all stand together against any hippie, anti-hunting group that wants to confront us. And we will win!!!!!!! So, let's stop saying we are dividing ouselves and helping the anti's!!!!! Because it just aint true!!!!!!! --rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adjam5 Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** I agree with Rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] Honestly, this deal about us dividing ourselves and helping the anti's because we disagree on classification of weapons is a bunch of bull!!!!!! [/ QUOTE ] I'll have to dissagree with that. Any time hunters can't agree on something it gives validity to people saying we're all a buch of idiots out there killing bambi and we can't even decide how to do it. [ QUOTE ] Let me ask the pro crossguners something? If the crossgun is NOT legal in your state to hunt with, what have you done to promote it and get it legalized in your state? [/ QUOTE ] Although the cross is legal in my state, I think a viable argument is this. While the crossbow may, in the opinion of some elitist, have slight advantages over the compound bow, they are not any greater advantages than compound has over the longbow and recurve. In fact there aren't any real advantages when you consider the weight, size, noise, pracitical range, speed, energy and awkwardness of the crossbow in shooting and transporting. The cross bow shoots the same basic projectiles with the same exact broadheads. They have similar practical range as the average bow when you consider that leagal bows can be shot at 30+ with many hunters shooting 75+ compounds. In states where crossbows are legal they have made very little tangible impact on the overall deer harvest for the state and have only helped deer populations cosidering that bow hunters tend to practice better management by harvesting a higher percentages of does than riffle hunters of any type. I've been hunting with a crossbow for 6 years. I have hunted on private and public land for all of those 6 years and have yet to see another crossbow, compound, longbow or recurve hunter in the woods. Who's space am I taking up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] I simply lobby (I currently sit on the state board) for bowhunters and do not support crossguns in bow seasons. I do support them being legal in other seasons. [/ QUOTE ] Oh thats great!!! You want crossbow hunters to go out into the woods with their crossbow while the majority is using FIREARMS?!?!?!?! I can see this happening, a Xbow shoots a deer and then a rifle hunter drops it! Just another reason to use the Xbow during the regular bow season! Remind me never to hunt in California!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] Any time hunters can't agree on something it gives validity to people saying we're all a buch of idiots out there killing bambi and we can't even decide how to do it. [/ QUOTE ] With all due respect, this statement is the same point that everyone tries to make when they run out of facts. The idea that ALL hunters have to agree with ALL OTHER hunters on everything or we are creating an in for animal rights advances, is basically pretty darn bogus. In fact, if that is the case, we had better disolve this and all other forums, because without more than one point of view, there really is no discussion. Why do people always assume that hunters are so weak minded that they cannot have debate without being vulnerable to advances by the anti-hunters? Do you really have that low an opinion of hunters? [ QUOTE ] While the crossbow may, in the opinion of some elitist, have slight advantages over the compound bow, they are not any greater advantages than compound has over the longbow and recurve. [/ QUOTE ] And so with that line of reasoning, pistol shooters have only a small advantage over crossbows, so let's put them into bowseason as well. And, what the heck, a shotgun is only a slight advantage over a pistol, so lets pile those guys in there too, And so on and so forth. The point is that if you are going to have special seasons reserved for special classes of weapons at all, you have to draw a line somewhere or simply give up the idea of special seasons. We must also recognize that each individual draws the line where they think is appropriate. That really has nothing to do with somebody being an "elitist" or any other name that you want to call those that don't happen to draw the line at the same place you do. This issue will be decided by many different factions, backgrounds and opinions. There are many more aspects to the question than merely a couple of points of similarity. Eventually all states will have to hammer out all those points and make a decision based on the general feeling of the hunters within that state and certainly not all people will be happy with that result. But one thing is for sure, when the dust settles, we will all have to live with the result no matter how strong our passions may be one way or the other. And when it is all done, the results may or may not be the correct ones, but they will be the results that we live by. I only hope that when it is all said and done, the quality of the bow-hunt and the identity of bowhunting as a unique sport is not lost or compromised. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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