Crossbow Facts **

[rossman]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

Compounds have been so glorified by mainstream media it's digusting. If Waddell was shooting a crossbow, everyone would have one and praise it.

[/ QUOTE ]

If Waddell was using a cross-bow, he would not be as popular as he is. Why would a bowhunter watch a hunting show, about a guy with a cross-bow? The cross-bow guys/girls would watch him. This is fine, too each his own!!!!!

Another thing, no one ever said, you or anyone else does does not have the right to use a cross-bow!!!! We just disagree on the classification. If they opened up a seperate cross-bow season here in NY I would be all for it.

And, obviously, when you pull a bow back you do have stored energy, but you are holding the energy with your arms, shoulders, wrists, hands, etc. Not holding the string indefinatually with a mechanical bolt, that releases when you pull the trigger.

I'm all for cross-bows, but, like muzzleloaders, open up a seperate season. But, if a person is physically handicapped and cannot pull a bow back, then let them use it whenever, even during bow season.

--rossman

[Guest Nature_Boy]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

I wish crossbows were legal in Indiana bow season. Not necessarily for me, but I think my wife would hunt with me if she could use a crossbow. Just my.02.

[buckbuster11]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

Another thing, no one ever said, you or anyone else does does not have the right to use a cross-bow!!!! We just disagree on the classification. If they opened up a seperate cross-bow season here in NY I would be all for it.

And, obviously, when you pull a bow back you do have stored energy, but you are holding the energy with your arms, shoulders, wrists, hands, etc. Not holding the string indefinatually with a mechanical bolt, that releases when you pull the trigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't quite understand the opinion hunters have (not just you) that they would accept crossbows if they had their own season. What difference does it make?

[Tominator]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

If they opened up a seperate cross-bow season here in NY I would be all for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if they opened a season for x-bows, you'd go buy a crossbow and use it?

Would it be OK to use a compound during the crossbow season in your scenario?

I guess I'm trying to get to the crux of your beef with crossbows.

I can honestly say, that if the state of Ohio said "no compounds during crossbow season." That would tick me off, and I don't know that I'd get a crossbow, I wouldn't want to at least.

Ohio allows the use of a crossbow or longbow regardless of season. The only restrictions place on a weapon is the use of a firearm.

[too_pointer]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

rossman, have you ever shot one or hunted with one I would like to know for sure. Too many people get opinions from other people or something they read !!

too-

[muggs]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

And, obviously, when you pull a bow back you do have stored energy, but you are holding the energy with your arms, shoulders, wrists, hands, etc. Not holding the string indefinatually with a mechanical bolt, that releases when you pull the trigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...yeah bud, your holding 60%-80% of the weight...big deal. Your also pulling a trigger, much like those, umm, what's the name? Oh yeah, crossbow.

[rossman]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

If they opened up a seperate cross-bow season here in NY I would be all for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if they opened a season for x-bows, you'd go buy a crossbow and use it?

Would it be OK to use a compound during the crossbow season in your scenario?

I guess I'm trying to get to the crux of your beef with crossbows.

I can honestly say, that if the state of Ohio said "no compounds during crossbow season." That would tick me off, and I don't know that I'd get a crossbow, I wouldn't want to at least.

Ohio allows the use of a crossbow or longbow regardless of season. The only restrictions place on a weapon is the use of a firearm.

[/ QUOTE ]

If they opened up a x-bow season, No I would not go buy a cross-bow and use it. I like my bow better, and have enough opportunity with my bow and other means of weaponry.

If they wouldn't allow x-bows during bow season. then no I would not favor allowing bows during x-bow season.

Here, is the deal. I believe, that x-bows and compounds should not be in the same category. Just my opinion, and again I do not knock anyone for using one. I personally look at a x-bow as a gun that shoots arrows. Not a bow that shoots arrows. This is just how I see it...

Does a x-bow have a safety?

Is a x-bow ready to shoot with one pull of a trigger?

Do typical x-bows have "scopes" on them as a sight?

Is the average x-bow more accurate and faster than a typical bow? Considering all the time it takes to get good form while shooting a bow.

At the end of the day, it's just what I prefer. But, if my neighbor wants to go buy a x-bow and shoot it and hunt with it during the proper season, then he can be my guest? I will still talk hunting and shooting with him anytime, and if he brings home a biggun with his x-bow, I will salute his deer to the fullest extent.

--rossman

[buckee]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

Here, is the deal. I believe, that x-bows and compounds should not be in the same category. Just my opinion, and again I do not knock anyone for using one. I personally look at a x-bow as a gun that shoots arrows. Not a bow that shoots arrows. This is just how I see it...

Does a x-bow have a safety?

Is a x-bow ready to shoot with one pull of a trigger?

Do typical x-bows have "scopes" on them as a sight?

Is the average x-bow more accurate and faster than a typical bow? Considering all the time it takes to get good form while shooting a bow.

At the end of the day, it's just what I prefer. But, if my neighbor wants to go buy a x-bow and shoot it and hunt with it during the proper season, then he can be my guest? I will still talk hunting and shooting with him anytime, and if he brings home a biggun with his x-bow, I will salute his deer to the fullest extent.

[/ QUOTE ]

It really is a silly argument, but you have the right to your opinion of how you view a crossbow, even though the facts are right there in front of you.

What I don't understand is How you can say "Here, is the deal. I believe, that x-bows and compounds should not be in the same category."

Because that is the same argument that some purist traditional shooter use against the compound bows.

Speaking of Traditional bows. The crossbow has been around for thousands of years, right along side the long-bow and re-curve bows. So if any bow is the outsider here (traditionally speaking) it would be the compound bow,

[Adjam5]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

I don't quite understand the opinion hunters have (not just you) that they would accept crossbows if they had their own season. What difference does it make?

[/ QUOTE ]

The reason separate seasons are needed for each implement is that different weapons have different advantages over others. Most seasons start with the implement that is the hardest to kill with, then it eventually gets to the centerfire rifle where a 300 yard shot sometimes is whats needed and is made frequently. One extreme to the other.

Atleast thats the way big game season starts off in NYS.

Doc has made some very good points concerning

x bows. The big picture is to bring more hunters into the sport...right? We all agree on that...Right?

But x bows most likely will not bring new hunters into the ranks. If that happens I think it would be minimal, Gun hunters will make the cross over to the crossgun,OOPS! theres that word again

I can't help it...its gonna take time.

Take a look at some facts and comparisons made by a NY organization regarding the crossbow.

NewYork Bowhunters

I feel the rules in NYS regarding the use of a x bow should be loosened for lesser disabled hunters and older archers, but extend the current seasons to include the x bow.

There is reason that some states do not allow x bow use. Better minds than ours have looked at this, and conclude that the x bow does not belong in the archery season in NYS, atleast for now.

[VermontHunter]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

I had a reply all typed up,, but thought better of it and will just let this one go for now......

But will say this,, if you can't share the woods, maybe it's time for some of us that call our selfs hunters to find another sport... I think the crossbow has it's place right along side it's counterparts....

[Shaun_300]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Thanks for posting that Buckee, I hunt with a crossbow sometimes and I love every minute of it!

[need2hunt]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

And, obviously, when you pull a bow back you do have stored energy, but you are holding the energy with your arms, shoulders, wrists, hands, etc. Not holding the string indefinatually with a mechanical bolt, that releases when you pull the trigger.

[/ QUOTE ]

umm...yeah bud, your holding 60%-80% of the weight...big deal. Your also pulling a trigger, much like those, umm, what's the name? Oh yeah, crossbow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually Muggs 60%-80% is the common let-off, leaving the archer only actually holding 20%-40% of the weight at full draw. So if they are pulling 60 pounds they may only be holding 12-24 lbs at full draw.

[Doc]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

But will say this,, if you can't share the woods, maybe it's time for some of us that call our selfs hunters to find another sport...

[/ QUOTE ]

And to carry this selfless attitude out all the way, perhaps bowhunters should encourage everyone to participate in the early seasons. Why are we so darn selfish that we try to keep our fellow hunters out of some of the prime hunting times of the year. We should have a primitive weapons season that allows all kinds of ancient weapons from atlatyls to muzzleloaders. No, that's still pretty darn selfish and holds a heavy bias against our gunhunting brethren. Better yet, we bowhunters should be fair to ALL hunters and just give up our archery season completely so we can prove just what nice selfless people we are. Gee, can't we just all get along.

I hope you all realize that that was just done with tongue in cheek, but everytime I read someone trying to throw a guilt trip on us, I tend to respond with just a touch of sarcasm.

Look, we know that there are already divisions in seasons that are based on weapons and for some very good reasons. If you want to add in a weapon that not only doesn't look like a bow, but doesn't even shoot like a bow, don't be so completely surprised if there are some people who object. Adding in compound bows didn't exactly come without a fair amount of pain and anguish, and even today there are some pretty good arguments that say that that was a mistake. So if you x-bowers want to bust into an existing season with existing guidelines, why do you think that it will come any easier than compounds did. And for crying out loud, if you can't think of any more legitimate arguments supporting your desired intrusion into an existing season, please do not resort to the emotionalism of slinging guilt trips around. That really is pretty lame, especially when it really isn't even relevant.

Doc

[VermontHunter]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

Just what guilt trip is that Doc..???

I hunt with all types of weapons here in Vermont,,, heck our late season Archery co-exist with ML Season,, I have NO problem hunting with a bow while the next guy next to me in the woods uses a ML or vise versa..... I think it's called hunting coperation, and respecting the weapon of choice if it's legal... I honestly don't think it has anything to do with laying out a guilt trip....

[Rhino]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

I was going to stay out of this one but.....

X-bows, compound bows, and traditional bows are all different in their own way but they all have their limitations. I'm certainly not opposed to sharing the bowseason with anyone that uses any of these weapons.

With that said though there was a time when I shared an opinon similar to rossman but had an total attiude change about it. Only thing though my previous attitude problem pertained to comparing compounds (called string guns in those days) to traditional bows (called real bows in those days). My how things change eh?

Remember when traditonal hunters would say compound bows and traditional bows weren't in the same category?

1. Does a compound allow you to hold less weight than your pulling? Even worse can you draw and hold while an animal is approaching and continue to hold at full draw until you have a clear shot?

2. Can you use a trigger release aid on a compound?

3. Do typical compounds have sights. Make that multiple pins and a peep sight for ranges out to who knows how many yards?

4. Is the average compound more accurate and faster than a traditional bow? Of course considering all the time it continues to take practicing to maintain accuracy in shooting a traditional bow.

I perfer hunting with both a compound and traditional gear now but I'll gladly share my bowseason with someone that wants to hunt with a x-bow, provided it's legal for them to use. There are limitations for x-bow hunting here but 2 hunters share our neck of the woods legaly hunting with their x-bows. They certainly don't kill more deer/hours hunted than the rest of us. Heck if it puts more hunters in the woods to share bowhunting with with the rest of us non x-bow hunters, I'm all for it.

As far as I'm concerned, any compound bow hunter that is adamant about favoring a seperate season for x-bow hunters is being unfair to the traditional bow hunters too. If you want to nit pick lets be fair to all of them and give the traditional bowhunters equal opportunity too.

Makes about as much sense to me as having seperate seasons for x-bows.

Personally, I prefer the K.I.S.S. method of establishing rules for bow season myself.

[Guest HaDeRonDa]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

My guess is that this has been beaten like a dead horse already.

You either like them or you don't similar to a tennis fan liking John Macenrow (sp) , shame on me for not knowing.

I ask all of you this that think another hunting impliment "needs" to be in the woods. If I could make a slingshot and it's projectile capable of making ethical

harvests would you be game for including it into a season? A simple yes or know will do.

Answering this will just show what side of the fence you site on. Step up and show your chest!

I really have no hard opinions but to say this. I don't feel that everyone needs another hunting impliment.

Some, the handicapped, could be aided with the use of one but for the average Joe? I guess you want to use my slingshot too. huh?

Everyone does not need to have the ability to park close to the supermarket doors. Desire? sure, but that desire or "need" can turn into greed.

[BOHNTR]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

I think there's definately a place for crossbows.......in the firearm season! JMO

[Tominator]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

If you want to add in a weapon that not only doesn't look like a bow, but doesn't even shoot like a bow, don't be so completely surprised if there are some people who object.

[/ QUOTE ]

So it's the look of the bow, and how it shoots? Nevermind that they are essentially the same in effective range and similar tactics to that of a compound?

Or is it the fact that you have to share the woods with someone who's carrying a horizontal weapon as opposed to a vertical weapon?

Yo HaDaeRon--bring on that slingshot brother. The more the merrier, doesn't bother me a bit.

[Doc]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

Just what guilt trip is that Doc..???

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

But will say this,, if you can't share the woods, maybe it's time for some of us that call our selfs hunters to find another sport

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems pretty clear that this statement is implying that bowhunters who oppose x-bows are basically being selfish and unwilling to "share". To me that is simply trading in logical arguments for emotionalism and yes, basically trying to cast a guilt trip of being selfish on those who oppose x-bows.

My response was that if that is really your feeling, then why simply draw the line at crossbows? It seems to me that if sharing is really all that important when it comes to who should be participating in hunting, then the true spirit of sharing would be to eliminate all special seasons and give all hunters the benefit of hunting some of the more favorable times of the year.

Personally, I think there have been some rather well thought out reasons for separating seasons according to weapon, and if there are going to be any additions of weapons into currently restricted seasons, I think it is right that it comes at the price of a lot of debate and thought and is not simply handled in a fashion that says that bowhunters should stop being unwilling to share. Sharing has absolutely nothing to do with why the seasons were separated in the first place, and it certainly should have nothing to do with determining what weapons are allowed in future bow seasons.

Doc

[Guest Xen]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

before you make a post about how many bonuses a crossbow has, go shoot one. use a chronograph and compare the speed of the crossbow to a compound, you'll be suprised. don't rely on the printing on the box to tell you how fast you're shooting. crossbows that are boasting the 300+ fps aren't always getting that.

please, shoot one, put a little effort into educating yourself on a crossbow before you make remarks that are basically he-said/she-said.

the biggest reason that I support crossbows, is that my dad use to LOVE to bow hunt. after he had his arm almost ripped off of his body while working on a hydraulic system on an aircraft, he had to give it up. the crossbow has let him get back out to enjoy a sport he has been missing. this isn't some story i heard about from a guy who knows a guy who heard about another guy, this was in my face constantly. bow season opens one year, great, we go out hunting, have fun, etc. the next year, with my dad's arm at about 20% on the bow opener, i watched my dad sit on the couch and drink til he passed out while looking at pictures of past bow hunts. thank God he woke up the next morning and said he wasn't going to be limited to 10lbs of weight and thank God he didn't listen to the doctors that told him his arm would have to be amputated.

now, all that being said, do i think bow should be restricted to handi-capped hunters? No.

do i think that a crossbow is more accurate than a compound bow? No.

have i actually shot both a compound bow and a crossbow? Yes. and more than once. No idea how many bow shots, but at least 100 shots from a crossbow.

will i ever drop my bow to take up my dad's crossbow? No.

you don't pick up a rifle and just start shooting 1" groups, you have to practice. a crossbow is the same way.

[johnf]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

Look, we know that there are already divisions in seasons that are based on weapons and for some very good reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proposed hunting season for 2006-2007

These dates should sufficiantly separate hunters by method effeciency and range.

Sept. 1-6 Manhandler season- hunter must run down deer on foot and kill it with bare hands.

Sept. 7-12 Knife season- (formally known as buckee season) hunter must run down deer on foot but may use a knife with a blade no longer than 6"

Sept. 13-19 Spear season- hunter must run down deer on foot but may use a speear with a staff no longer than 6'

Sept. 20-26 Knife trowing season-hunter may stalk a deer and throw the knife at them.

Sept 27- Oct 2. Spear trowing season- hunter may throw the spear at a deer.

Oct. 3-9 Slingshot season-

Oct. 10-16 Long bow season-

Oct. 17-22 Compound bow season

Oct. 23-29 Crosbow season

Oct. 30- Nov. 4 Musket season

Nov. 5-11 Flintlock season

Nov. 12-18 Muzzel loading season- Iron sights only

Nov. 19-25 Muzzel loading season- true glo or red dot permitted

Nov. 26- Dec. 1 Muzzel loading II - scopes permitted.

Dec. 2 - 8 Shotgun season I - Buckshot only no scopes

Dec. 9 -14 Shotgun season II - Slugs and true glo or red dots permitted

Dec. 15-21 Shotgun III - scopes permitted.

Dec. 22-28 Hand Gun I - Hand guns of Less than 40 Cal with Iron sights

Dec. 29 -Jan 3. Hand Gun II - All Hand guns of over 38 Cal. but only traditional hand gun cartriges. No scopes

Jan. 4-10 Hand Gun III - All Hand Guns with scopes

Jan. 11-17 Modern Gun I - Only guns with less than 150 yard range and Iron sights

Jan. 18-23 Mondern Gun II - Guns with Less than 150 yard range with scopes

Jan. 24-29 Mondern Gun III - Small caliber guns (6mm or less)

Jan. 25- Feb. 1 Modern Gun IV - (6mm-30caliber)

Feb. 2- 8 Modern Gun V - All deer calibers.

[LifeNRA]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

I think there's definately a place for crossbows.......in the firearm season! JMO

[/ QUOTE ]

JMO is fine! But when the time comes when you can no longer pull that bow back, and you still want to hunt! What are you going to do??? You have that option! Or, are you just gonna sit it out and complain that you wish you can bow hunt again!

Thats the spot my father is in now! I want to be able to hunt with my FATHER! He wants to hunt MORE! If all you so-called bowhunters out here are so against Xbows, then put your COMPOUNDS down, and you better pick up a LONGBOW OR RECURVE!!!

This silly mentallity is what tears US, the hunting community appart! If I knew that when I bought my bow, my father would have got into hunting more, even with using a Xbow! I would have done this sooner! I reget this now, because I know my fathers hunting years are winding down, faster than I want! When he can no longer hunt with me it will be one of the SADDEST times in my life! Because I know how that MAN LOVES TO HUNT DEER!!! So if you so-called bowhunters cant understand what this is like, well I have no answer for you then!

I want to appoligize forever bringing up this crossbow thread! If I knew that the feelings in here of us hunters were this way I would have never said a thing!

Yeah I removed the bold type!

[Guest Nature_Boy]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Look, we know that there are already divisions in seasons that are based on weapons and for some very good reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Proposed hunting season for 2006-2007

These dates should sufficiantly separate hunters by method effeciency and range.

Sept. 1-6 Manhandler season- hunter must run down deer on foot and kill it with bare hands.

Sept. 7-12 Knife season- (formally known as buckee season) hunter must run down deer on foot but may use a knife with a blade no longer than 6"

Sept. 13-19 Spear season- hunter must run down deer on foot but may use a speear with a staff no longer than 6'

Sept. 20-26 Knife trowing season-hunter may stalk a deer and throw the knife at them.

Sept 27- Oct 2. Spear trowing season- hunter may throw the spear at a deer.

Oct. 3-9 Slingshot season-

Oct. 10-16 Long bow season-

Oct. 17-22 Compound bow season

Oct. 23-29 Crosbow season

Oct. 30- Nov. 4 Musket season

Nov. 5-11 Flintlock season

Nov. 12-18 Muzzel loading season- Iron sights only

Nov. 19-25 Muzzel loading season- true glo or red dot permitted

Nov. 26- Dec. 1 Muzzel loading II - scopes permitted.

Dec. 2 - 8 Shotgun season I - Buckshot only no scopes

Dec. 9 -14 Shotgun season II - Slugs and true glo or red dots permitted

Dec. 15-21 Shotgun III - scopes permitted.

Dec. 22-28 Hand Gun I - Hand guns of Less than 40 Cal with Iron sights

Dec. 29 -Jan 3. Hand Gun II - All Hand guns of over 38 Cal. but only traditional hand gun cartriges. No scopes

Jan. 4-10 Hand Gun III - All Hand Guns with scopes

Jan. 11-17 Modern Gun I - Only guns with less than 150 yard range and Iron sights

Jan. 18-23 Mondern Gun II - Guns with Less than 150 yard range with scopes

Jan. 24-29 Mondern Gun III - Small caliber guns (6mm or less)

Jan. 25- Feb. 1 Modern Gun IV - (6mm-30caliber)

Feb. 2- 8 Modern Gun V - All deer calibers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now thats funny right there. Allthough it does resemble Indiana's season descriptions in their hunting regulations books published each year.

[rossman]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

LifeNRA,

I believe the overall feeling is, if you can no longer use a bow because of an injury or physical handicap, then you "should" be able to use a x-bow during bow season!!! I don't think a silngle person disagrees with you on this part of the issue.

No one ever said that they believe your father should not hunt with you because he can't use a bow. the high majority, if not all of us, agree that in your case, your father should be able to use a x-bow during bow season due to his physical ailment.

I think you are mis-interpreting the debate.

Good luck to you and your father!!!!!--rossman

[TreeWalker]

Re: Crossbow Facts **

OK......Enough is Enough.........while some have conducted themselves well, there are others that have taken this thread so that it is longer a constructive debate, but a destructive argument.....

Crossbows are still bows whether you like it or not.......they do not use explosive propellent to launch the bolt, but are propelled by the release of a string.......just like a compound........they often ARE out performed by compounds.....some having slightly more speed and short range accuracy ain't much to brag about.......many compound archers can hit the bullseye consectively at 25 yards also.......

If it is legal in your area, and you are a legal permit holder, than more power to you. Any further deragotory comments towards crossbowers simply because they shoot a crossbow, will no longer be tolerated in these forums. Their threads have as much of a right to be in this room as do the rest of yours.........

And for the record, I have shot a crossbow for fun.....if i could choose, I would still prefer the compound just for it's performance characteristics, I personally did not like the feel and down range performance........so I prefer to shoot a compound, but I surely not degrade someone if they legally choose to........nor will I slam the crossbow or it's niche in the hunting world........this is hunters helping hunters..........you want to put down your fellow hunter, join an anti board......

If you have a problem with crossbows use and your G&F regulations, take it up with your State's Legislators........the State of ND, only allows Crossbow use for those that are handicapped, and with that I agree......but that is our State's regulations........I certainly will not berate a fellow hunter in another state for using one, if it is legal for him to do so........if you don't agree with the laws, don't rip on the hunter that abides by them.........

Now can we please keep this discussion on track............