TreeWalker Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Also, thanks Rossman for clearing up some of that and your efforts to try and keep this civil.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And, obviously, when you pull a bow back you do have stored energy, but you are holding the energy with your arms, shoulders, wrists, hands, etc. Not holding the string indefinatually with a mechanical bolt, that releases when you pull the trigger. [/ QUOTE ] umm...yeah bud, your holding 60%-80% of the weight...big deal. Your also pulling a trigger, much like those, umm, what's the name? Oh yeah, crossbow. [/ QUOTE ] Actually Muggs 60%-80% is the common let-off, leaving the archer only actually holding 20%-40% of the weight at full draw. So if they are pulling 60 pounds they may only be holding 12-24 lbs at full draw. [/ QUOTE ] that's what I was trying to say, but my moron self worded it wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Just what guilt trip is that Doc..??? [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But will say this,, if you can't share the woods, maybe it's time for some of us that call our selfs hunters to find another sport [/ QUOTE ] It seems pretty clear that this statement is implying that bowhunters who oppose x-bows are basically being selfish and unwilling to "share". To me that is simply trading in logical arguments for emotionalism and yes, basically trying to cast a guilt trip of being selfish on those who oppose x-bows. My response was that if that is really your feeling, then why simply draw the line at crossbows? It seems to me that if sharing is really all that important when it comes to who should be participating in hunting, then the true spirit of sharing would be to eliminate all special seasons and give all hunters the benefit of hunting some of the more favorable times of the year. Personally, I think there have been some rather well thought out reasons for separating seasons according to weapon, and if there are going to be any additions of weapons into currently restricted seasons, I think it is right that it comes at the price of a lot of debate and thought and is not simply handled in a fashion that says that bowhunters should stop being unwilling to share. Sharing has absolutely nothing to do with why the seasons were separated in the first place, and it certainly should have nothing to do with determining what weapons are allowed in future bow seasons. Doc [/ QUOTE ] That's a lot of art bud, but not much substance. In the past I've read your posts, in which you adamently stated that crossbows would increase the number of hunters in the woods, thus decreasing the number of deer, while at the same time crowd the woods. To me, that sounds like someone who is unwilling to share, strictly based on the idea that since you tote a compound into the woods, you deserve to be there more than those with crossbows. So are you taking back your past statements? Try as I may, I can't find any statment which clarifies your obvious dislike for crossbows? If it's not the unwillingness to share the great outdoors, then what is it? If you're going to say increase hunters=decrease in deer...keep in mind, Ohio has allowed the use of crossbows in it's bow season for decades...and each year our herd size increases by leaps and bounds. Ohio is also one of the leading states for trophy class deer year in and year out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] I believe the overall feeling is, if you can no longer use a bow because of an injury or physical handicap, then you "should" be able to use a x-bow during bow season!!! I don't think a silngle person disagrees with you on this part of the issue. [/ QUOTE ] But if your state allows it so be it! But here in PA during the regular bow season you need a permit signed by your doctor. [ QUOTE ] No one ever said that they believe your father should not hunt with you because he can't use a bow. the high majority, if not all of us, agree that in your case, your father should be able to use a x-bow during bow season due to his physical ailment. [/ QUOTE ] But I never said anyone has either! LOL!!! I was just stating what my situation is. Giving an example. [ QUOTE ] Good luck to you and your father!!!!!--rossman [/ QUOTE ] Thanks!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] some having slightly more speed and short range accuracy ain't much to brag about [/ QUOTE ] Wasnt bragging! [ QUOTE ] many compound archers can hit the bullseye consectively at 25 yards also [/ QUOTE ] Not me! Havent been shooting long enough for that yet! But with that red dot sight on top it just made it easier! [ QUOTE ] if i could choose, I would still prefer the compound just for it's performance characteristics [/ QUOTE ] Me too! I would rather use my compound than a Xbow anyday of the week! For me It was just fun shooting it! But when I get too old or have any injury that prevents me from using a regular bow, I know what Ill be buying! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] LifeNRA, I believe the overall feeling is, if you can no longer use a bow because of an injury or physical handicap, then you "should" be able to use a x-bow during bow season!!! I don't think a silngle person disagrees with you on this part of the issue. No one ever said that they believe your father should not hunt with you because he can't use a bow. the high majority, if not all of us, agree that in your case, your father should be able to use a x-bow during bow season due to his physical ailment. I think you are mis-interpreting the debate. Good luck to you and your father!!!!!--rossman [/ QUOTE ] Thank You Rossman John, My father, now at 74yrs old, put down his bow for what I'm fairly sure will be his last time using one 2 years ago. Due to his shoulder health at the time he could no longer hold it back..even with its high letoff and using 60 lb limbs dialed down and in the low 50's in draw weight. I gave him that bow 4 years prior to that with the intention of seeing him achieve a personal goal of his and taking his second deer with a bow...his first was with a 55# recurve when i was a small kid. I've said that to say this: "If he wanted to hunt with a crossbow he would not have to hesitate in recieving one from me..not for one second" He has passed down to me a love of the outdoors and of hunting. I'll do anything I can to see that he also enjoys as much of that possible for himself as long as possible. He kept things simple for me by making sure that whatever weapon I used while hunting to use it to the best of my ability. My personal stance about crossbows can be described best by describing my hunting history: At first I did not hunt but wanted to because I was too young... My father bought me a childs stickbow to learn how to shoot after he took his one and only deer with a bow... When I became old enough to go along with my father I was given a bb-gun to teach me weapons safety, first with many practice sessions before going into in the field... I was given a 22 rifle to practice with only under extremely strict supervision... After becoming old enough to hunt legally I was allowed to use his shotguns hunting rabbits and pheasants while hunting with him... After reaching the age where I could hunt by myself I was allowed to use his shotguns... When I was able to afford buying my own weapon to hunt with I bought my own shotgun then a 30-30 rifle and finally a hunting compound bow... I was never exposed to hunting with a crossbow in my hunting history. I've never shot one and I've only seen them in stores. I would still be only a shotgun and rifle hunter if I had not purchased the compound bow. The only reason I purchased the bow was to increase my time hunting...I did not hunt during bow season simply because I did not have one. Basically it's the same reason for my recent pruchase of a Muzzleloader...to increase my time hunting and with a different weapon than I've ever had. By now you are all probably wondering why all of this just to say my point about crossbows...here's why: It's not about the choice of weapon that I now base my hunting on. It's about hunting...I Love doing it! It makes no difference to me what weapon I use. I'll hunt as long as possible with any weapon that I can effectively use. I like the differences in the weapons that I now own and use. I dont like one over another their simply tools. IMHO...If a crossbow will extend that time hunting for me, at any age, ability, or disability, I'll buy one and use one where and when its allowed by regulations and legal to do so. I believe other people who feel the same way should have the right to do so as well. For me it's about being there on the first day through the last day of any hunting season...then waiting for it to happen again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Here are the hard facts of crossbow hunting in Arkansas last year. I can't see that the crossbow is taking over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] JMO is fine! But when the time comes when you can no longer pull that bow back, and you still want to hunt! What are you going to do??? You have that option! Or, are you just gonna sit it out and complain that you wish you can bow hunt again! [/ QUOTE ] LifeNRA: The day I can no longer pull a bow and arrow, I will learn how to bowhunt with a mouth tab. You see, I've never hunted with a firearm or crossgun. I've shot them before for recreation, but I was brought into the hunting community over 40 years ago by a father who built bows in the 60's, so archery is all I know. However, if all I could do was hunt with a crossgun, I'd expect to do it during a primitive or regular season, as it is NOT archery, IMO. Just so folks are clear on my view, I'm not at all opposed to crossbows or they being a legal means of hunting game animals in our states. I'm simply taking a stance (as is P&Y) and drawing a line on what I feel should be allowed in archery seasons. I hope those who hunt with them don't feel I am against them.....I'm not. Just not in the archery season is all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] I would still be only a shotgun and rifle hunter if I had not purchased the compound bow. The only reason I purchased the bow was to increase my time hunting...I did not hunt during bow season simply because I did not have one. [/ QUOTE ] With that first sentance, you guys in here are to blame for me buying a bow! LOL!!! I believe my father stop hunting with his bow many years ago because he had four kids to take care of. Also, when we all grew up it was more practical for him to take us out during the rifle season. But since I have been in this forum, I quickly found out I needed a bow! Now that I have one I am very greatful that my father will be extending his deer hunting as well! So remember, its your fault! LOL!!! But its a good fault to have been involved! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] JMO is fine! But when the time comes when you can no longer pull that bow back, and you still want to hunt! What are you going to do??? You have that option! Or, are you just gonna sit it out and complain that you wish you can bow hunt again! [/ QUOTE ] LifeNRA: The day I can no longer pull a bow and arrow, I will learn how to bowhunt with a mouth tab. You see, I've never hunted with a firearm or crossgun. I've shot them before for recreation, but I was brought into the hunting community over 40 years ago by a father who built bows in the 60's, so archery is all I know. However, if all I could do was hunt with a crossgun, I'd expect to do it during a primitive or regular season, as it is NOT archery, IMO. Just so folks are clear on my view, I'm not at all opposed to crossbows or they being a legal means of hunting game animals in our states. I'm simply taking a stance (as is P&Y) and drawing a line on what I feel should be allowed in archery seasons. I hope those who hunt with them don't feel I am against them.....I'm not. Just not in the archery season is all. [/ QUOTE ] Yeah but what are you gonna do if you have no teeth! LMBO!!!!! Your entitled to your own opinion, but if the state says its ok, well then its ok! Personally, I wont use one until I cant pull a regular compound back anymore! But your words about a crossbow, calling it a crossgun is a bit too much! But then, thats my opinion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muff Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** I have stayed out of this one because I am a cross bow hunter.....I hope some day to get a compound and have the time to practice....but right now I do not have time with my 2 young girls and 12 hour shift work. The 2 main reasons I use one is...well I did just say it no time to get use to a compound. and 2 I live on an Island at the bottom of lake ontario....when late season comes around it is VERY windy and cold here.....I find that the crossbow shoots a bit better in high wind and also when it is 0 f plus wind chill it is just easyer to use a crossbow. these are just my reasons.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] Just so folks are clear on my view, I'm not at all opposed to crossbows or they being a legal means of hunting game animals in our states. I'm simply taking a stance (as is P&Y) and drawing a line on what I feel should be allowed in archery seasons. I hope those who hunt with them don't feel I am against them.....I'm not. Just not in the archery season is all. [/ QUOTE ] Your opinion invalidates the crossbow as archery equiptment when it clearly meets the defintion. If you maintain that it is not archery equiptment, then you are in fact against its use in archery season and therefore, you are against it. The fact is that a cross bow in no way has a tangible advantage over a compound bow. There are plusses and minuses for both that probibly fair on the side of the compound. (Weight, manuverability, size, shape, sound) I've been hunting with a crossbow for several years and have found it much easier to pull up my scoped 25-06 with a 26" barrel and shiney laminated stock without spooking deer than it is for me to pull up my crossbow. You seem to have a strong opinion bassed on your feelings and no real evidence. I have shot compound and crossbow. Have you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] You seem to have a strong opinion bassed on your feelings and no real evidence. I have shot compound and crossbow. Have you? [/ QUOTE ] johnf: Obviously you missed that in my last post, but I'm glad to repeat it for you. Yes, I have shot both for recreation. However, there is a HUGE difference between a crossgun (aka: crossbow) and a compound bow, IMO. The crossgun is designed so you don't have to draw it back or hold any weight at full draw. It's locked in, sometimes scoped (just like a gun) and shouldered in the exact manner as a gun. Do I think it's more efficient than a compound bow? Not in my hands..... I found a compound to be much more efficient than the crossgun in terms of accuracy at longer ranges (out to 40 yards). However, we don't allow weapons in our bow season because they are less efficient (flintlocks, spears, etc.). We allow handheld bows ......again, JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** So if you agree that the crossbow (not known as the crossgun) does not have an advantage over the compound bow (formally known as the string gun) Why do you have this elitest attitude that they should be in a different season. That is like my post above, giving a season to every little differnce in weapon choice. So should we only allow bowhunters who can shoot 65#+ because they are most effective. It's the same arguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** This should make for some interesting reading for some people: http://www.horizontalbowhunter.com/news/news.asp?ID=16 What I find the most interesting about this discussion is the Emotionalism spent on "Tools". One persons favorite over another...instead of what the "Tools" are used for and what they can help someone accomplish. Anybody seen the Big Picture lately??? The roof leaks...who cares if the Roofer uses a "traditional" wood handled metal hammer, "compound" fiberglass handle metal hammer, or "Horizontal" air nail gun? The homeowner just wants the roof to stop leaking. (I forgot to add that some people will call the homeowner lazy for hiring the roofer in the first place) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** johnf: So now I'm an elitest? Wow, I guess the Realtight site hasn't changed much. Better not have a different view....or else! Again, since all you do is read what you WANT to read, I'll address your question...again. Just because the crossgun is less efficient in my hands (and many others), doesn't make it eligible for bow only season. It's not a bow. Have you ever tried shooting a flintlock or throw a hunting spear? Not very efficient either, IMO. Should we add them to the bow season as well? Of course not, becasue they are not bows.....and either is a crossbow (just for you ), IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** What does it matter??? It still uses a STICK and a STRING!! Shoots arrows, excuse me, BOLTS! It doesnt have the range nor the energy as a compound does. So whats the big deal. A crossbow hunter just has to get even closer to a deer in order to get a killing shot. Man! I am so glad I brought this subject up! SHEEEESH!!! Maybe its them gun laws you all have in California! Just kidding of course!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossman Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** How much closer is that? --rossman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Your use of the incorrect "crossgun" shows your disrespect for the crossbow as archery equiptment and your attitude for it. That is elitest any way you look at it. As far as the sight goes, there have been a lot of heated debates on many subjects in almost every room here. We normally try to give each others opinions validity and respect. By the use of your language concerning the use of crossbow (not crossguns) you do not give the crossbow or its users the respect that they deserve. I stand on what I've posted and what buckee and others have posted. You've yet to give a significant argument on why the crossBOW should not be used when legal. Opinion without substance is unproductive babble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Good analogy Gary I think it's pretty sad to see the rules,regs and private definitions, that belong to an elite game-scoring club like P&Y, spill over into the rules, regs and definitions of the rest of the hunting community. Crossbows ARE bows, whether P&Y recognizes them as bows or not, and have been around long before gun-powder was even invented. They just don't fall into P&Y's definition of a bow. Elite Clubs like P&Y, or B&C are entitled to define or categorize weapons in any way they see fit for their club, but that doesn't make it a legal definition or an acceptable definition to the other 98% of the hunting community. I hope P&Y doesn't start dictating our hunting laws for us now. CROSSBOW A weapon consisting of a bow fixed crosswise on a wooden stock, with grooves on the stock to direct the projectile. Description A crossbow consists of a prod (similar in appearance to a bow) mounted on a stock similar to a rifle stock, which has a mechanism to wind and shoot its bolts. These bolts are typically called quarrels, and do not depend upon lift as arrows do. The stock and trigger of hand-held firearms may have been copied from crossbows. More than Just my Opinion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** I love how all the features of crossbows are always subject of controversy....yet.... 80% let-offs, fiber optic sights, mechanical releases, lighted sights, carbon arrows, drop away rests...get the free pass... If you feel the need to shoot a compound bow to feel superior...that's fine, I get it...I'll keep shooting my compound for enjoyment and I won't feel the need to attack hunting methods others might chosse to do. I get my machismo fulfilled in other departments...hunting is my time to take in nature and relax a bit, and for the most part I get to do that. I realize having to draw back a bow when you're in a treestand machined from space shuttle grade alloys, in your $300 scent lok suit, with your $100 release, having the cams kick in and take off 80% of the weight you're pulling so you have to hold a whopping 10 pounds, while you take aim with a fiber optic sight that glares like the sun is after all far superior to all other ways to shoot a deer, because you view it as more primative or challenging. but really, unless I'm carving my own long bow from a limber hickory stick and then fashioning my heads from the rocks I find...I'm gonna save the "crossgun" mentality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** johnf: Again, I will re-post the issues and points I've already mentioned so maybe you can better understand. Note I said understand and not agree. I respect your opinion, and I won't resort to labeling you, as you have done me. The reason why I choose to refer to the weapon as a crossgun rather than crossbow, is in my opinion, it resembles and operates more like a gun than a true bow. Substance?? Okay, I'll give provide that with a simple question to you. Do you deny the crossbow (again for you) is sometimes scoped, always shouldered and fired exactly like a rifle, locked back, and never drawn by the shooter? If not, these are EXACTLY the reasons why I do not support them in bow seasons. I DO, however, support their use in other more appropriate seasons (primitive, firearm, etc.) Lastly, I respect and support any and all hunters....no matter what their choice of weapon is. I simply lobby (I currently sit on the state board) for bowhunters and do not support crossguns in bow seasons. I do support them being legal in other seasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** This is a lot of symatics here, but here is my personall situation. Tell me what you think. I have artheritis in my left shoulder, elboe and in both hands. I have broken 2 vertibre in my back and torn the tendon that holds my tricept to my elboe joint. I can pull back only about 30lbs (which is legal in some states) holding a vertical bow. Which is more ethical using a 30lb pull vertical bow or a 150lb crossbow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted April 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** [ QUOTE ] The reason why I choose to refer to the weapon as a crossgun rather than crossbow, is in my opinion, it resembles and operates more like a gun than a true bow. [/ QUOTE ] A more factual statement would be that a modern day gun resembles and operates more like the crossbow. Which came first, the chicken or the egg ? [ QUOTE ] I simply lobby (I currently sit on the state board) for bowhunters and do not support crossguns in bow seasons. I do support them being legal in other seasons. [/ QUOTE ] That's too bad (IMO) Were you voted in or appointed to that position ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOHNTR Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Re: Crossbow Facts ** Obviously the 150lb crossbow....start practicing with it and get ready for the primitive and/or general season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.