PAbowhunter86 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 How do you feel about Antler Restrictions? I for one like them. Here in Pa they were put in place a few years ago and I am seeing some big bucks, but along with the the Restrictions came a extended doe season. I am also seeing the results of that with the number of deer I have been seeing or should I say havent been seeing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? I like AR, but HATE HR!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? We're lucky enough in Ohio to have a herd that's healthy enough that guys seem to impose their own antler restrictions. Cue Ohiobucks' smart comment here... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? I would like to see statistics as to how license sales have been impacted in PA since the introduction of AR. Has anyone seen such numbers published anywhere? I would like to see if there is any loss of hunters as a result of AR. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] I like AR, but HATE HR!!! [/ QUOTE ] Ditto that. I think AR can work on smaller private pieces of land, but I don't think there is anyway they can succeed on a statewide level like PA. You may see an increasse in buck size in some areas, but if you look at the program in terms of the entire state it's not worth it. Plus, I see all this greed and expectations from other hunters that you have to shoot something nice or not shoot at all. You can't even shoot a basket racked 8 point anymore without at least somebody raising an eye brow. I feel pretty confident that AR will one day rip the hunting community in half. Just hope I'm not around to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] I would like to see statistics as to how license sales have been impacted in PA since the introduction of AR. Has anyone seen such numbers published anywhere? I would like to see if there is any loss of hunters as a result of AR. Doc [/ QUOTE ] I think you will see a loss of hunters in PA because of the Herd Reduction (HR), not AR! Most hunters I know like the bigger racks they been seeing, but them same hunters are complainning about the lack of deer last year, myself included! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? I think govn't mandated restrictions are bogus and I totally disagree with them.Point restrictions wouldn't make a bit of difference here in Illinois since most 1 1/2 old bucks already have 8 points.I have shot a few smaller bucks and enjoyed every hunt and backstrap. If a landowner wants to impose restrictions on his own land that is a different story. I personally pass on any deer younger than 2 1/2 just as my preferance because I get a lot of time to hunt and see quite a few deer.I've also learned a lot from hunting the past 17 years.I would not expect someone who has only hunted a short time to do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? I personally would like to see this state move forward and implement antler restrictions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? AR/HR/QDM/TDM - all of it has it's place, but none of it will be successful unless they (the regulating agency) do the science required to understand the herd and, to a certain extent, hunter attitudes. AR's are most effective in areas with excessive doe to buck ratios and in areas where the average age of a harvested buck is 1.5 years. The doe to buck ratio is improved because the focus of the meat harvest is shifted away from the younger bucks and over to the does. And the age class of the bucks is obviously improved when hunters are forced by AR's to only take 2.5+ year old bucks. But none of this will work if you don't have "buy in" from the hunting public. That's where education plays such an important part. The DEC needs to come in before implementing any plan and show the hunters the data to back up their proposal. Hunters also need to know what to expect both short term and long term from any proposed regulation changes. We've done that here and it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pabowhunt Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? I self imposed my own antler restrictions before the state did it. So I'm happy to see them do it. As for herd reduction, some areas are being hit a lot harder than others. My opinion, the GMU's are to large for the state to effectively manage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] I think you will see a loss of hunters in PA because of the Herd Reduction (HR), not AR! [/ QUOTE ] And when you do both at the same time, you are bound to lose a lot of hunters from an already diminishing hunter base. It appears from NY DEC stats that doing things that frustrate hunter success costs further losses in the hunter community. NY too, went too far with their herd reduction efforts in many parts of NY, and has now had to significantly reduce antlerless permit numbers. Just in this year alone, license sales went down 5% as a result. I can only imagine what that number would have been had we implemented AR across the state. Basically you would be telling people that they can pay the cash for their license, but don't expect to be able to shoot anything because we are not going to give you an antlerless permit and 80% of any bucks you might see will be illegal to harvest. [ QUOTE ] The DEC needs to come in before implementing any plan and show the hunters the data to back up their proposal. [/ QUOTE ] So far, the DEC has not bought into the AR schemes. There have been a few areas where AR was forced on them by people using outside political entities (Kind of like the tactics PETA uses) to perform an end-run around the DEC, but there have been statements from some DEC officials that indicate that they are opposed to statewide AR. Most of their objections that I have read is that AR is not appropriate for all areas of the state and that if it were to be implemented, it should be with regional habitat and herd population considerations in mind. Also, while I have not heard them state it yet, I think there is a feeling that such restrictions would further hasten the already serious problem of hunter losses. Could be they are right. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arrow32 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? Here in West Virginia id like to see them place a restriction. But dont think that will ever happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman2230 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? I hunt in PA, I dont mind the Ar's as much as I do that fact that there is no more doe season. In the past it used to be that if a hunter didnt get a buck then he probably wouldnt shoot anything at all. Most people wont take a day off just to hunt does. Now they dont have to, they can just shoot the first thing they see and leave which, in turn, lowers the deer population. Im sure its different if you hunt private land but if you hunt property that is game lands or not posted then you have people that just shoot at anything. On private land you can manage your heard they way you want to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tunkhannockbowhunter Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? AR works here in Pa. except it makes it harder on the state's rifle hunters, atleast the one's that expect killing a buck to be an easy accomplishment, because older deer get wiser every year. If you put your time in and hunt smart i dont see how you wouldnt love AR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAbowhunter4life Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] I self imposed my own antler restrictions before the state did it. So I'm happy to see them do it. As for herd reduction, some areas are being hit a lot harder than others. My opinion, the GMU's are to large for the state to effectively manage. [/ QUOTE ] You took the words right out of my mouth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? Doc, once again, you are more worried about the number of hunters in the woods and not what's best for the health of the herds. When it comes right down to it, I'm all for whatever improves the herd health, and if that means we have to lose a large number of hunters that don't get it, then so be it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman2230 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] When it comes right down to it, I'm all for whatever improves the herd health, and if that means we have to lose a large number of hunters that don't get it, then so be it. [/ QUOTE ] I also think that if we lose some hunters it would be OK. There are too many hunters that hunt all around me during the rifle season. Too many hunters can have bad effects. Last season some deer ran through the "gauntlet" as I call it....which is an area where about 7 hunters (not including me or my dad) have their stands and can all shoot at them at the same time. (the farthest hunter being 65 yards from my permanent stand) I was walking to talk to my dad when they ran through and I had a round go right through my backpack!! AND I WAS WEARING IT AT THE TIME!! So I say that if we have less hunters then thats no skin off my back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stsi36 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? i like the restrictions not the extended doe season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman2230 Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] i like the restrictions not the extended doe season [/ QUOTE ] I agree completely!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] Doc, once again, you are more worried about the number of hunters in the woods and not what's best for the health of the herds. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not sure there is any real way of separating the two. Since hunters are the prime tool for deer management, I suspect that the deer herd would be simply left to nature as far as management without a good healthy population of active and enthusiastic hunters. Also, it is just possible that without a strong influential population of hunters, some of the very improvements in management techniques that you are looking for would be impossible to fund or even consider. No, the bigger picture of future deer management tells me that it is very short-sighted to try to separate the hunter numbers from the herd health. You can't really have one without the other. The alternatives to a strong and influencial hunter population is management by political and financial entities and those non-hunting interests that can muster the most influence for their concerns, be they farmers, timber industry reps, insurance lobbies, nurserymen, animal rights activists, etc, etc. Do you really think that that is what is best for "herd health"? I think before we simply dismiss the steady decline of hunters,and arbitrarily offer up willingness to sacrifice our hunter base, we had better at least consider some of the ramifications as it applies to the future of hunting and the state of the deer herd. There are many sides to all of these questions, and one of those sides had better be how we manage the people who actually execute the management policies of the DEC. It's a point of view that in the bigger picture and long term view, could save both us and the deer herd from future disaster. In our frenzied zeal to produce future wall mounts, let's not lose sight of the common sense realities of deer management. It requires hunter support, hunter funding, and hunter execution of the studied results of the state's deer manager's efforts. Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowJoe Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? I think antler limits is a more feesible solution. Limit the number of bucks down to 1/hunter/yr. Once you take a buck, you are done. Makes people more selective. One other thing to help might be the Earn a Buck program where you can't take a buck til you kill a doe first. Keep the population even and until the number get to about 3 does to every buck keep the earn a buck system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? i am not in agreement with AR. AR has nothing to do with herd health it is simply trophy madness. if you want some really big bucks, how about a 10 point 20 inch wide AR. that will get some whoppers going. i cant understand where this selfishness that some hunters have has come from . you know deer hunting is just more than hanging a rack on your wall or seeing big bucks. i think quite a few people have gotten there priorities wrong. too many have big buck madness and they would do anything to have a chance to shoot one. if you want a big buck then hunt hard and impose your own AR. but dont ask the guy down the road to do the same just because of what you want. Shoot Strong Tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VtBowhunter Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? Tony, you may be right in some areas about the AR's being trophy madness, but in other areas, folks are viewing them the way they should be......a tool to allow younger bucks to age while, at the same time, removing more does, to balance the herd. That's how it's viewed pretty much throughout Vermont, with every hunter I speak to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spikekiller Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] Here in West Virginia id like to see them place a restriction. But dont think that will ever happen. [/ QUOTE ] Same here in Maryland...they want them all killed off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 Re: Antler Restrictions? [ QUOTE ] i am not in agreement with AR. AR has nothing to do with herd health it is simply trophy madness. if you want some really big bucks, how about a 10 point 20 inch wide AR. that will get some whoppers going. i cant understand where this selfishness that some hunters have has come from . you know deer hunting is just more than hanging a rack on your wall or seeing big bucks. i think quite a few people have gotten there priorities wrong. too many have big buck madness and they would do anything to have a chance to shoot one. if you want a big buck then hunt hard and impose your own AR. but dont ask the guy down the road to do the same just because of what you want. Shoot Strong Tony [/ QUOTE ] Tony, Tony, Tony...... You sure do feel pretty strong on this issue don't you? Well, I'll tell one other thing. You are dead-on correct! ................On every point!!! Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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