Reloader Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 I finaly got my new ML out for the first time today. Good news is that is shoots great! I didn't punch any paper just rang a steel gong from 50 yards for fun. The problem is that the bullets were next to impossible to seat. I have a 50 cal CVA inline ML; I am using 45 caliber Hornady SST 300 grain bullets in 50 caliber sabots (bought as a set not seperately); 90 Grains of Triple 7 powder; I swabed with a damp patch and a dry patch between every shot (once with 2 damp patches then the dry one to be extra sure). I completely disasembled the gun and cleaned it before I even got to the range to get the packing grease and all off of it. But, even the first round was dificult to load. I measured and poured the powder (duh) then seated the bullet in the muzzle with my fingers, then I set it with the short starter on my TC "T" handle before finishing with the full ram rod. The bullet was very dificult to seat with the short starter (I actualy have a small but nasty bruise on my palm from pushing on the short starter). Once it was started down the bore it was slightly easier but still required much more effort than the traditional conicals or patched round balls I have shot in Hawkins style rifles in the past. Do I need to lube these bullets in any way or am I doing something wrong? Once it was loaded it shot very nicely, but if I continue having this much trouble loading it I may not shoot it much... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... Should not have to lube the bullets. I use TC xtp mags with the sabots that come with them in the 240 grain bullets. Never have any problems seating these in my black diamond. I am sure AJ will correct me if I am wrong, but the way I understand, different manufacturers can have different bore dimensions + or - either way and still call the bore a .50 cal. Could be your cva might have a tighter bore maybe. Would suggest using some different combinations of bullets sabots and see what works best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patrick_White Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... First thing is to try some Shockwaves and see how well they load. They are the same bullet in a different sabot. The SST's come with HPH 12's and the Shockwaves come with HPH 24's. If the Shockwaves are still too tight you can try MMP's new 3 petal sabot. They don't have a name yet so you have to ask for them specifically when you call to order. They load easier than even HPH-24's. A few fired 3 petal sabots, a fired HPH 12, and a Barnes 250 in both the 3 petal (shorter) and an HPH 12. (870) 741-5019 http://www.mmpsabots.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooBear Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... Welcome to the world of sabots. They all load much harder than patched round balls or conicals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... Wtnhunt and Patrick have given some good data. There is no real standard with muzzleloading guns as far as bore diameter and yes they are different not only from manufacturer to manufacturer but from gun to gun. Yours could be a tight bore. On the plus side, I prefer tight bores. They give the best accuracy and highest velocity in my experience. On the downside they are harder to load. My Savage has a tight bore and it is a beast to load with SST bullets but I need a stronger bullet for the higher velocity. In a regular muzzleloader like your CVA, I see no need for a jacketed bullet. In fact, I do not use jacketed bullets at all in guns that use Pyrodex and Triple 7. I use pure lead bullets. They load a lot easier, are extremely accurate, and work on game as well as or better than a jacketed bullet. Different bullets/sabot combinations will give different loading pressures. One may be easier than another. Try a few different ones to see what your gun likes. The bore in your gun may not be as smooth as it should. This can also lead to hard seatng bullets. Give the bore a good scrubbing with some JB Bore Cleaner on a tight patch. Give it 25 strokes and get a new patch and repeat the process a few times. This will give a very clean barrel. I highly recomend using a bore guide to save the crown while running the patch a hundred times. Plastic fouling can build up and make it harder to seat bullets. Use a good stiff bronze brush to remove any plastic fouling. You do not want to lube plastic sabots. None of the bullet makers or the gun makers suggest it. The only bullets that get lubed are the big lead conicals and round ball patches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloader Posted April 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... I will have to try the shockwaves and a few others then, wish I had thought about it before I bought 2 boxes of the SSTs. anyone want to buy my unopened box of SST's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 23, 2006 Report Share Posted April 23, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... If they were 250 gr I would. I see no reason to shoot 300 gr bullets at a deer. I prefer 200 - 250 gr bullets for deer sized game. The Shockwave is the same as the SST. I mix them regularly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABS Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... I would think about trying some Powerbelt bullets as well. I think you'd find that your "hard to seat" problem would go away. I shoot 295 gr -- reason being is that I find my Black Diamond likes the heavier bullets. It groups 295 and 348 gr bullets much better than it groups 245. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdickey Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... Reloader.... try lubricating the sabots with a product called Bore Butter. It will make seating the bullets much easier! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JEV Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... After cleaning the barrel, I run a patch through it several times with just a little bore butter on it. It has made seating sabots much easier for me with little to no effect on accuracy. JEV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reloader Posted April 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... I do the bore butter every time I clean it before putting it away, but haven't done it between shots or on the sabot...may try that for the ones I have left...Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest andymansavage Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... That's the SST man. They are a beast to load no matter what. I've dropped two mulies with them and seen 3 other deer and two elk go down within 10 yards. I shoot the 300 gr. Try the shockwaves as suggested above. I just use a round starter that doesn't hurt my hand. I love the SST. Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted April 25, 2006 Report Share Posted April 25, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... Do not lube your sabots. They are not designed to be lubed. TC, Knight, and other gun and ammo makers say do not lube sabots. Her eit is straight from TC: Note about Sabots T/C's All Natural Lube 1000 Plus Bore Butter was designed as a lube to be used with traditional patched roundballs (lube the patches) and all lead conical bullets like our Maxi-Ball and Maxi-Hunters. If you are shooting sabots, DO NOT LUBE YOUR SABOTS. Sabots are designed to be shot right out of the package____DRY. In fact, you should remove any trace of Natural Lube, or any lube for that matter, from the barrel before shooting sabots. The less lube you have in the barrel when shooting sabots, the better, to achieve optimum accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... I use Brownells Sabot Solvent in my ML's. I put it on a patch, soak down the bore and let it sit a few minutes. Then I brush the barrel out and clean as normal. This stuff really helps remove the plastic buildup from the sabots. I have found improved accuracy as well as much easier sabot loading. Part no. is #083-000-011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... [ QUOTE ] I would think about trying some Powerbelt bullets as well. I think you'd find that your "hard to seat" problem would go away. I shoot 295 gr -- reason being is that I find my Black Diamond likes the heavier bullets. It groups 295 and 348 gr bullets much better than it groups 245. [/ QUOTE ] I agree! Get powerbelts. My buddy tried the new shockwaves this year and hated them for they wouldn't seat. He's going back to powerbelts next fall. Me, I like, no, LOVE the 348 powerbelts Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too_pointer Posted April 26, 2006 Report Share Posted April 26, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... I use the 295 grn. p.b.'s I would try them, but understand that they have a chance of not working for your gun , if they do great too_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooBear Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... [ QUOTE ] Reloader.... try lubricating the sabots with a product called Bore Butter. It will make seating the bullets much easier! [/ QUOTE ] BoreButter is not recommended for sabots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdickey Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Reloader.... try lubricating the sabots with a product called Bore Butter. It will make seating the bullets much easier! [/ QUOTE ] BoreButter is not recommended for sabots. [/ QUOTE ] Been using it for the past 6 years with no problems! Still shoots a very good group! Of course, I don't shoot a T/C either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Goose Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 Re: AAACCCKKKK!!!! Help please... nice avatar patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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