yooperkenny Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Thanks SLGD - that was a very thorough explanation and addresses some valid scientific concerns that make many skeptical of these garments. I personally use mostly scentlok and some scentblocker along with scent free soap, shampoo, deodorant, etc and they seem to help. But I always play the wind because I believe you can't eliminate 100% of human scent. Don't underestimate scent from your head and hands also. I picked up some scentlok glove liners that fit inside whatever gloves I'm using. Do you think it's important to use special laundry detergents for carbon clothing? Also, how long should I expect my scentlok garments to last? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scent_Lok_G_Designer Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Thanks for the questions. ALWAYS use our garments in a system and by all means use the wind as well. Mature deer are frustratingly (is that a word?) smart and their senses are sharp. Our garments will reduce you scent dramatically but good hunting tactics should still practiced. I cannot stress how much a headcover is vital to our system!!! over a third of a human's odor comes from their head and face. Keep it covered!!! Gloves are a good point as oils from hands stay on branches and other places much longer then say airborn molecules which get dispersed rather quickly. As for your direct questions; yes you sould use a scent free detergent. Any of them is fine, I would only suggest on without bleaches and brighteners. This is to maintain the superb details of the camo. Our tests show that at 20 washing cycles the effectiveness of the fabric is the same as the first wash. After 20 washing cycles it begins to lose effectiveness due to the lamination processes breaking down (glues breaking down due to the soaps) releasing carbon down the drain. However, regeneration can be done as much as you want without effecting the garment. Our cameramen are out for just about every season, all season and they say they only wash theire about five to six times a season. "Normal" hunters should be right around 2-3 times a season. The only x-factor here is in extreme heat where you constantly sweat. If you notice a slight "body odor" smell after some extreme Texas hunt....its time to wash your gear. Heck, if you smell some "body odor" on any of your clothes...it's time for a wash. Ha ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow Hunter Derek Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker I'm sorry, but as an engineer, I still can't buy into it. The fundamental element in regenerating carbon is steam, which you aknowledged in your response to my initial question. For those who don't know, steam acts as a carrier vessel for the contaminants on the carbon. The heat allows the release of the contaminants and the steam molecules act as the carrier. The problem with the house hold dryer is that while a wet garment will produce humid air, it does not produce "steam". Steam is produced when when the water source reaches above the boiling point or is in a pressure state that allows it to reach the saturation curve on a phsycometric chart. In true regeneration, the air is superheated. At 140 deg F, a wet garment in a dryer only produces humid air, not steam. The steam that you see outside of your dryer vent on a cold day is the result of a sudden temperature drop at which point, the temperature drops past the dew point for the given conditions of the air stream. It is not truely steam. OK, so I could see how water molecules in humid air could act somewhat as a carrier for some of the contaminates on the carbon. But there is not enough energy in the air or free water molecules to provide significant regeneration or reactivation (you call it what you want, but all scientific data that I have uses the terms interchangeably at 1,400 deg F temperature ranges). At 140 deg. F and full saturation, you are only talking approximately 200 BTU per pound of dry air. Now I don't know the exact dimensions of a house hold dryer drum, but let's say it is somewhere around 14 cu.ft. At 140 deg F that would mean that there is only about 185 BTU of energy in the air in the dryer. Folks, that is not very much. There is a reason it is not very much, you don't want to destroy your clothes. Further, you did state that "steam" was needed. So then how can you possibly regenerate a garment that has not been washed. You said that you can wash a garment up to 20 times before it starts to break down, but can just throw it in the dryer any number of times. A dry garment in a dryer produces no more moisture than what the general humidity of the air is at that time. Doing so simply shifts you to the right on a phsyc chart and actually decreases your relative humidity. So how is it that the garment can "regenerate" on low level heat alone? That goes against all thermodyanmic priciples right there. Sorry, I'm not out to knock your company, but until there are unbiased labs tests done by a group that has no affiliation to the carbon garment industry, I won't believe any test data that you guys can supply. I'm in business, I know how easy it is to sway a 3rd party to bias data. As an engineer, I know how easy it is to make the numbers look to one's favor. Thermo and physics don't lie. I just don't see how it is possible for these garments to work as claimed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scent_Lok_G_Designer Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker I can see you understand many of the principles and I understand your cooncerns. I certainly was skeptical when I started with Scent-Lok. I will also admit, though I have read the materials and had them explained to me by numerious experts; I cannot claim to know 100% about thermodynamic principles. That being said, the main terms of reactivate and regenerate are indeed vastly different in the scientific community. They, activated carbon experts gave me the analogy that the difference is like a dish washer getting plates clean(regeneration) and and autoclave system for sterilization(reactivation). This was "dumbed down" for me because obviously I have never had the pleasure of running a Gas Chromotographer (spelling?) or attended a leading scientific lecture. But the analogy shows the vast difference between the two. As for unbiased lab tests, we have had several independents test our claims and we have made that information available on our site under the science section. I can assure you that the only thing we did was make them easier to read for common non-scientists like me. I can say that the experts we have consulted with on activated carbon have dedicated their entire careers to this study and have defended our claims from patent offices to courtrooms, and time and time again the facts have supported us. In addition, we have sold thousands of suits every year and marketed our product very well. However, even the best marketing wouldn't be able to overcome the response if indeed it didn't work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Use the wind and don't spend any money on these gimicks!! There are more suckers on dry land than in all the lakes combined!! LOL!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker [ QUOTE ] Use the wind and don't spend any money on these gimicks!! There are more suckers on dry land than in all the lakes combined!! LOL!! [/ QUOTE ] Its nice to have someone from Scent-Lok come on here and take the time to explain. Usually the skeptics are the ones not willing to ante up and buy a scent type suit. If these suits were $50.00 for the entire outfit you guys would be saying they are the greatest invention since sliced bread. Please don't bash the product or the concept. I was thinking last night, Scent Lok has Lee Lasoky wearing their product, I may be wrong but isn't Lee an engineer too? Hmmmm, maybe he knows something we don't? I would have to beleive Lee was a skeptic at first too, its hard to convince an engineer but last time I looked he was wearing one. The trophies on Lee's walls tell me it must do something to put the odds in the hunter's favor. There will always be skeptics, but calling a product a "gimmick"on here is borderline bashing! If you don't like the product then let it be, but don't bash it if you haven't worn one. Like I said, more often than not its the cost that scare away people and make them skeptical. If the human element wasn't subsceptical to new things the hunting industry never would have evolved to what it is now. With everyone running out to buy the lastest high tech, high priced bows, broadheads, arrows, sights, rests, its just a matter of time when you start to look at your clothing and update it to the latest materials out there and there just happen to be companies trying to help control your scent. If progress wasn't made in the hunting industry we'd all be hunting with recurves with wood arrows shooting Bear broadheads dressed in our military woodland camo and we wouldn't be discussing it on the internet, we'd be writing letters to get other!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Indianscout Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker WELL SAID I'm thankful someone would take thier time to explain to me thier product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Dont think anyone is bashing or talking bad about this product. From what I have read, and written myself, seems some of us simply think it is not something we ourselves need or will use. As for the scentlok guy coming in here, he has to keep a job. People quit buying their products where is he? Of course he will tell you how it works and how it is a great product, wouldnt you? If at the very least it does the suit makes you more confident, then I guess it has worked for you. I personally am confident in my ability to get close to deer without. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow Hunter Derek Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker You simply can not regenerate carbon with warm dry air. The physics don't support it. If you could, every test lab in nearly every plant in the country would have a small drying oven to regenerate (even though not 100% efficient) carbon from small lab adsorber units. For the record, I've not bashed the product. Science is science. Business is business. The two are two entirely different concepts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scent_Lok_G_Designer Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Thank you very much for saying what you said here. I am researching the physics behind this and will report back to both Derek and the rest of you on what I find. Many of the labs we have used are in other countries and may take some time to research, but I will get back to the root questions he has posed. Lee was a chemical engineer and we did sow him data that backed our claims. However not all engineers have expertise in activated carbon and Lee is one of those. But man I'd love to have his trophy wall!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker [ QUOTE ] Dont think anyone is bashing or talking bad about this product. From what I have read, and written myself, seems some of us simply think it is not something we ourselves need or will use. As for the scentlok guy coming in here, he has to keep a job. People quit buying their products where is he? Of course he will tell you how it works and how it is a great product, wouldnt you? If at the very least it does the suit makes you more confident, then I guess it has worked for you. I personally am confident in my ability to get close to deer without. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry when someone uses the word, "gimick" to me that is bashing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker [ QUOTE ] Lee was a chemical engineer and we did sow him data that backed our claims. However not all engineers have expertise in activated carbon and Lee is one of those. But man I'd love to have his trophy wall!!! [/ QUOTE ] I knew he was an engineer, I'm a mechanical engineer but what do I know! I think a chemical engineer would be the one that would be most skeptical. None the less I will support Scent Lok and Scent Blocker. Both help the industry and both companies provide a great product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scent_Lok_G_Designer Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker To some of the other statements about my role here. This isn't my job to come onto chat rooms and talk my product up. I know not everybody will buy our product, but I do like to know what serious questions are out there so we can do a better job of explaining the technical nature of activated carbon. You will NEVER see bash another product even though I have opinions, and many times proprietary information. Many times on these boards things are said because people can hide behind a mask of an alias. They seem to bash at will knowing that they can log off and don't have to account for their statements. I have been all across the country talking to tens of thousands of customers in hundreds of stores and never has anybody used the word "gimmick" "sucker" or similar to me face. I have had people question and prod about our products which I politely answer the questions to the best of my knowledge. However on chat rooms, I also belong to several others and do prettty much the same thing, it seems to happen all the time. Its sad how people feel they can talk on a chat board at times. So I choose to move along over those posts and tend to spend my time researching valid polite posters such as Derek. Thanks and if you want a reply please use the reply button and it will send me an e-mail. That way I can respond rather quickly for you all! ~Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bow Hunter Derek Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Nick, your a good guy. I don't envy your position, out trying to sell a product to guys like me. I really respect you for what you are doing. Allthough working for hunting related company would be pretty cool. If nothing else, the nerd in me likes playing with the numbers and the physics behind something like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scent_Lok_G_Designer Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Funny thing is I haven't hunted in two years!!! While all of you are out having a good time at camp, I am here working my tail off for next year's products and answering phone calls. You would think I got it made, but man I would love to have a week off during that season. Ha ha. Now if you knew how many hours I spend behind a computer, you would see I am in the same dinghy!!! Now that would be something to write about on the board. The physicist and the marketing guy from Scent-Lok stuck on a boat to debate effectiveness until a passing ships picks us up. Ha ha!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Well I guess Orlan did call the product a gimmick. Like I said all along in here if it makes you more confident, then it probably makes you a better hunter and the product then has been successful,even if it does not work as the manufacturer claims it does. btw, I personally dont think calling a product a gimmick is really bashing the product, making derogatory remarks directed towards the product yes, calling it a gimmick no. Now the cough silencer, there is a gimmick, how many suckers have bought into that useless junk. Guess that is bashing huh ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker sounds to me like your hard to please! I must be a sucker too because I have the cough silencer, it does work. So I guess I am loaded with cash because I buy gimmick things all the time, from Scent Blocker to Cough Silencers, I am a hunting company's favorite customer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scent_Lok_G_Designer Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker I can go along with your point about confidence. I'll buy into that. I can think of many places a product like the Cough Silencer could have some other great uses though: Nagging Wife Silencer, Middle-Of-The-Night Dog Barking Silencer, In-A-Busy-Elevator Fart Silencer, Gangsta-Rap Silencer, Democrat Silencer, Republican Silencer, Ted Nugent Soapbox Silencer, Bill Mahar Silencer,...need we go on? Ha ha. By the way all of the above here is in good fun!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker SLG, Your analogy of a sponge may be more inline with your products effectiveness than an Autoclave. Especially since an Autoclave uses "Pressurized Steam" @ an average of 250*F(sometimes higher) in a gravity dispacement process to sterilize. Temperatures of 270*F are achieved in Flash Sterilizers used in hospital operating rooms which cycle through a pre-vacuam, heat-up, contact time, and cool down. Possibly the analogy of "Assisted evaporation of some surface bacteria that cause odors" may be more accurate in a home clothes dryer at only 140*F. Personally I'm in the group of people that finds products like yours cost prohibitive based on the possible advantages that may be gained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 12, 2006 Report Share Posted May 12, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Sorry Lou, I am more likely a bit of a skeptic, than I am as you say hard to please. No doubt some great new products do come along from time to time, then there are some that market a group just to sell that are cure all type products or are what the seller is trying to make us think are neccesities. Some things I have seen that really amaze me. Just in wal mart for example, I have seen some things like a 50 cent seamstress tape in fancy packaging to appeal to a hunter selling for $2.97 as a deer antler measuring tape. Regular orange construction marking tape like you buy at lowes 10 rolls for $3.97 sold as hunters flagging tape 1 roll in wal mart again in fancy packaging for $2.97 for a single roll. But quite obviously some people will buy it. Been a lot of posts in here abut the effectiveness of the cough silencer. Think personally that it is a joke, that is my opinion, however I have not field tested one. Didnt mean to hurt any feelings, just giving my honest opinions as have you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker This has been a nice little debate...wish they all go like this! I personally will not dispute whether it works or not...I don't own or wear any scent blocking clothing. I hunt the wind when posible and had good success. Heck, I even had to put out a smoke a time or two to grab my bow. Calling a product a gimmick maybe or maybe not bashing...however, there is also some borderline advertising going on as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scent_Lok_G_Designer Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker I understand only the very basics of autoclave systems. I was only trying to illustrate the vast differences between a dishwasher and sterialization and how they illustrate the point between reactivation and regeneration. Thanks though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Turkeystalker Posted May 13, 2006 Report Share Posted May 13, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker Realtree Roads trips has a new scent block suit out that look sweet. ASAT will also be available this summer with scent lok. That would be my first choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OUTSIDER Posted May 14, 2006 Report Share Posted May 14, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker I have a scent loc suit, i like it. Seems to work fine, i use it in conjunction with H.S. coverup scents, and red fox urine on the bottom of my boots. I say too, stealth dust works great, espically on your base layer (i use underarmor) when you sweat it comes directly in contact with the stealth dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted May 15, 2006 Report Share Posted May 15, 2006 Re: scentlok/blocker [ QUOTE ] Sorry Lou, I am more likely a bit of a skeptic, than I am as you say hard to please. No doubt some great new products do come along from time to time, then there are some that market a group just to sell that are cure all type products or are what the seller is trying to make us think are neccesities. Some things I have seen that really amaze me. Just in wal mart for example, I have seen some things like a 50 cent seamstress tape in fancy packaging to appeal to a hunter selling for $2.97 as a deer antler measuring tape. Regular orange construction marking tape like you buy at lowes 10 rolls for $3.97 sold as hunters flagging tape 1 roll in wal mart again in fancy packaging for $2.97 for a single roll. But quite obviously some people will buy it. Been a lot of posts in here abut the effectiveness of the cough silencer. Think personally that it is a joke, that is my opinion, however I have not field tested one. Didnt mean to hurt any feelings, just giving my honest opinions as have you. [/ QUOTE ] You didn't hurt my feelings William, I understand where you are coming from. So don't worry about me, I like to hear others opinions. This is a good thread, everyone has a side and we even have a representative giving us some information. So don't worry what your saying and I hope I didn't offend you, its all in good fun and thats what makes this place great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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