Racial slurrs

[buckee]

Sure pull out the racist card to defend a killer.

Your forgetting there was only one gun between all those who were shot and the murderer was starting to leave the bush, when he turned and started shooting. The murderer was somewhere he knew darn well, he shouldn't have been. Even if he was getting yelled at...which he deserved just for being there, that doesn't give him the EXCUSE to start shooting.

Sorry, but I don't see how one man can shoot that many unarmed men in cold blood, even if there was racist comments involved. Why didn't he just keep on walking. Am I missing something here.

[hoosierhunter]

Re: Racial slurrs

Completely agree buckee.......That man is a sick sick individual and "racist slurs" is not a legitimate reason to shoot somone PERIOD...........

[Hillbilly]

Re: Racial slurrs

First of all I don't wanna start a fight here on a topic that has already upset a lot of people in the world.

Dude, let's say you go to the victims families and say he was defending himself cause of Racial Slurs. What would their reaction be. Yeah we don't know the whole story, but we do know the ending. And the ending probably is worst than the rest of the story.

I'm not saying your defending him, but in that post you put up it kind of blamed the people who was killed. A tradition that friends and families do every year. And now Thanksgiving will be lonely for the families that lost so much.

[billygoat]

Re: Racial slurrs

I am with Casey. Hunting the whitetail in Wisconsin is a long standing tradition... it is cultural, ****, it's religion in these parts. As with any tradition, culture, or religion, there are rules, laws, and social norms that govern the tradition... Whenever an individual embarks on participating in a cultural event that is not a part of their own cultural norm, it is their responsibility to understand and adapt... much as if I were to go to China or Russia or South Texas... it is my responsibility to adapt and respect the practices of those areas. In general, the Hmong society has had poor success at adapting to the traditions of hunting in the north.... there have been numerous run in's and quite frankly it is amazing it has taken this long for something to happen. Hmong's are noted for tresspassing throughout this state, not to say that there are not a fair number of "northerners" who are law breakers either... however it was not one of them who went on the shooting spree.

Regarding Jeff's claim for "racial slurs". I once again return to the cultural diversity issue and our response to it. If a Christian calls a non-christian a stone cold sinner fallin to the pit of ****, does that give the sinner the right to retaliate, or if a republican calls a democrat an ****, based on his party mascot, how about that, or what about it I sit in the stand at a football game and tell the opposing teams star player that his mama.... does that give him the right to crawl up into the stand and beat the living @#$#% out of me... no, regardless of what "racial" slurs were said... Vang had a civil and moral responsibility to walk away and report the incident to higher authorities (if he truely felt violated), instead, he assumed the role of judge, jury, and executer... he was wrong. Provoked or unprovoked, he was wrong. He executed 6 unarmed individuals and why, because he was unwilling to accept the culture that is so strong in this State.

[slugshooter]

Re: Racial slurrs

JeffNY, you must be reading my mind, I was gonna come in here and post something nearly identical to what you said, now ,I am in no way condoning what this guy did, and there is no way to know exactly who acted in what way, maybe this guy didn't know he was on private land like he said in his statement, but like you said, not all people are sane civil people, even in rural Wisconsin, I've been all over this country and I've met people I wouldn't pee on if they were on fire, he claims they fired at him first, they say he fired first, he claims racial slurs and feared for his life, 1 gun out of 8 people or 8 out of 8, if I was in the woods by myself and 8 people came up to me with a gun and started yelling racial slurs and threatening me, well, I might not have a sane rational response, maybe this guy didn't know he was on private land, maybe he doesn't understand the concept like the story said, it in no way condones what he did, but try to put yourself in his shoes, if this is what happened, he thinks he is still on public land, gets in a treestand, all of a sudden 8 people come up to him and start yelling and using curse words, threats, racials slurs, one of them points a gun at him and tells him to get lost. Now, I know how I would react if I owned land and caught someone, I would be mad as heck, does it give me the right to point a gun at him and curse and use racial slurs, nope. There are 2 sides to this story, unfortunately, the problem is we will never know exactly what happened, and if I have learned one thing, is that people can be cruel heartless SOB's who only care about themselves, and unfortunately there are more out there than there needs to be.

[billygoat]

Re: Racial slurrs

Slugshooter, I understand the frustration that comes with racism, discrimination, and hate, but retaliation was certainly not the answer and note to everyone... the state of wisconsin prohibits placing "fixed" stands on public hunting grounds, only temporary stands may be placed there... from the police report, the stand was a large fixed wooden stand... had Vang been familiar with the Law of Wisconsin, he would have known by the presence of the very stand he was in, that he was trespassing, and as a result, removed himself from the property prior to ever being confronted. Recognize that I know racism and hate are very dangerous tools and that all of us on RT need to take heed that we ALL represent the sport of hunting and therefore all must be cognisent of the words we write and the thoughts that we express, as not to hurt the very sport we love.

[slugshooter]

Re: Racial slurrs

True, the racial slurs are not excuse enough for him to open fire, but the last report I read he claims they fired into the ground 30 feet in front of his feet, if that did happen, coupled with the racial slurs. What would you do, especially if you are a foreigner and didn't know he was on private land( so he says ) I can't pass judgement without the full story.

[billygoat]

Re: Racial slurrs

Point taken... God only knows the truth... the whole thing is quite sickening. Take some time to read the initial police report, posted in the lounge or on the Wisconsin State Journal web site, the report offers some insight into the murders but still, definitely not the whole story. Oh yeah, happy Bday (day late) slugshooter.

[Doc]

Re: Racial slurrs

Life certainly has gotten pretty cheap hasn't it? Now-a-days, apparently racial slurs are justification for gunning down people. I'm sure this guy's lawyer will make the most out of that aspect, and some sympathetic jury will turn him loose into the world.

This whole episode is so wacked out that we are all reaching for straws to try to make some kind of sense out of it all. However, read the newspaper and before long it becomes obvious that there are just some people who are just plain nuts! Plain and simple. Not all of the violence in this world has good logical reasons.

Doc

[shotupdeer]

Re: Racial slurrs

I haven't been paying too terribly much attention to this story, but I have paid a little. If he was told to leave, thats understandable. If he was threatened, shot at, whatever, I call it self defense. Reason being, 1. Its six against one. 2. At least one of the six had a gun. Perhaps he didn't realize he had gone off his hunting land. It happens quite frequently around here, two neighboring hunting clubs, and someone wants to get away from everyone else, but they overstep the property line. I don't know what happened there, the only person that does is Vang.

[Ohiobucks]

Re: Racial slurrs

He shot 22 times, some at close range. 22 times. All for supposedly being called a racial slur? No. The guy was way unstable to begin with. Mentally unbalanced.

From CNN:

"In the same affidavit, Gillis quotes Hesebeck as saying Vang walked away from the group after exchanging words with someone. Vang got 40 yards away, removed the scope from his rifle, turned and began shooting, in some cases pursuing the hunters when they ran away, Hesebeck said."

"Vang said he then removed the scope from his rifle and began shooting, according to Gillis. One of the hunters was shouting, "help me, help me," but Vang said he chased him and shot him in the back.

Vang said he also saw hunters coming toward him in an all-terrain vehicle, one of them carrying a rifle. Vang said he shot at them and both men fell off the vehicle.

Vang said when he returned to the site where the shootings began, he saw one of the men still standing.

"You're not dead yet?" Vang said he asked the man. He then shot in the man's direction but doesn't know if the man was hit.

Gillis said only one rifle was found at the scene, near Roidt's body. However, Vang said the hunters had several guns."

This guy was a time bomb waiting to go off.

[HuntingInMaine]

Re: Racial slurrs

I don't care what the other hunters called him, you could call me everything but a white woman and I am not going to shoot you! There is absolutely NO excuse for what happened. If this was a person who was scared for his life he would have shot and left the area, he would NOT have returned to where the confrontation began to make sure everyone was dead. I believe that Vang is full of it! He says that the others all had guns, yet only one was found beside one of the victims. I find it hard to believe that the one man left standing would have had the presence of mind to hide everyone else's guns before the police got there, plus he would have had to find all the empty casings and hide them too. Would you be thinking about this when you are surrounded by dead and dying friends? I know I would be in shock and unable to do much of anything!

I hadn't read the CNN article that ohiobucks posted, but now I am even more angry about the whole ordeal. Vang himself says he asked "You're not dead yet?"....I think that says it all. This is someone who should have never been allowed in this country, let alone in the woods with a gun!

[dartonman]

Re: Racial slurrs

Defending himself?????.......O.K, how is this theory for you....what if he was an anti-hunter, and set this whole thing up........the guy was walking out to 40 feet or so, and took his scope off his gun...WHY???, so he could shoot rapidly open sights, the way our military taught him......he is an army vet, and words are words, he still shot all those people, and no radio traffic heard by anyone left alive in the party initiates "self defense"......sorry, I feel he is a killer, and maybe wanted to be for a long time, and thought this out.........al

[wtnhunt]

Re: Racial slurrs

Who knows what was really said before the situation escalated to the murderous rampage. Whther they made racist remarks or not, that is not reason for him firing at them. If by chance they did in fact open fire on him first as he is suggesting, what I am hearing lately on the news, then he may have been defending himself at first. But then where did it go from self defense to cold blooded murder. If there was only one armed man in the group, then why did he continue to keep on gunning them down.

Personally I think he is trying to make up this story of racism and self defense in an attempt to save his tail. Whether anyone will believe it or not I tend to be very doubtful. The crime scene as they have shown and as they have described seems to be very apparent that those shot and killed never had a chance.

I say leave the race issue out and call him what he is. A murderer. The color of his skin has nothing to do with it.

[huntn4bucks]

Re: Racial slurrs

It seems as though there's alot of speculating and hypothetical scenarious being played out here. None of us will ever know exactly what happened that day. It was a very sad and tragic event for sure but to try and recreate what happened based on media reports and rumors is just not right. Six people are dead. We do know that Vang committed this violent act...we don't know why.

[ QUOTE ]

Sure pull out the racist card to defend a killer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Buckee, Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure you're not of Asian descent. You have no earthly idea what it's like to be "different". I am in no way defended what Vang did because I truly don't know what happened that day. Being a product of the Vietnam War I've lived all my life with the ignorance of "white-america". Yeah, my skin is brown. Was it my choice? NO!!! My parents made that decision for me. I'm proud of my Asian heritage but I truly call myself an American. My parents gave up everything they had to make life better for my brother and me. If anything, people's ignorance and racial bigotry has made me a stronger man. I came to America from Asia, I graduated high school, I graduated college, and I now have a successful job. All of which I earned...I never once played the race card to get where I'm at and I'd never use it to defend my actions. I am a person...a human being...no matter the race.

Delete this post if you want. It will just prove how most people can not tolerate someone that "differs" from their way of thinking.

h4b

[horst]

Re: Racial slurrs

You know, I can actually buy the self defense thing except for a few things.

1-He shot 8 people

2- e took the time to remove his scope to shoot them

3-He went back and shot some of them again while they were lying on the ground bleeding and clearly no threat to anyone.

4-Between 8 people only gun was found, 7 of them werent much of a threat and some of em didnt even show up till after he had started shooting.

the biggest one for me- he didnt stop shooting untill he was out of bullets.

These are not acts of self defense.If someones shooting at you you dont take time to take you scope off before shooting back.If your defending yourself you dont go back through and pump bullets into wounded people.You would only shoot untill you were safely through them and then keep going away from the threat.And he fired 20 some times, if there was only 1 gun present besides his thats a lotta bullets considering 7 of the victims were unarmed.

I dont care what he was called, he went off the deep end and 6 people are dead.If 8 guys had me surrounded in the woods and were calling me names, Id walk away, he coulda done the same.At any tme he coulda quit shooting and walked away he didnt untill he was outta ammo.Theres no justification for it.As soon as he stopped and took his scope off to begin shooting it became pretty well premeditated, it took some thought to decide he would have better luck gunning them down at close range without the scope.Its murder plain and simple, but as in a lot of cases since he is a minority a lot of folks will try to twist it around to make him look like the victim.Name calling is not grounds for shooting 8 people, if he didnt understand the hunting laws he had no businuess being out there to start with.At one time we didnt have to have muzzleloaders cased in the car as long as they werent capped, that law changed and Ididnt know, I got arrested for having an uncased gun in the car.I paid my fine and it was entirely my fault, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

[snapper]

Re: Racial slurrs

I was going to stay out of this...but you know me!

If he shot them because of shouting and racial slurrs, then he is truely messed up. However, if someone shoots at me, I'm defending myself however that may be. If 8 guys break into my home and only one has a gun that is pointed at me and fired...if I feel my life is in danger...it would be hard to stop shooting til I was the last one standing!

True, we will never know the entire truth and I'm not defending what he did because I wasn't there. It truely is sad reguardless of how it actually happened!

[wtnhunt]

Re: Racial slurrs

[ QUOTE ]

I dont care what he was called, he went off the deep end and 6 people are dead.If 8 guys had me surrounded in the woods and were calling me names, Id walk away, he coulda done the same.At any tme he coulda quit shooting and walked away he didnt untill he was outta ammo.Theres no justification for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen. Anyone in their right mind would have no matter how they felt about being called names.

Guess that raise another issue of this guys mental state. Wonder if lawyers will try and get him off of on some of the charges on a temporary insanity type plea.

[texastrophies]

Re: Racial slurrs

I know this won't be real popular, but I think there is some saying that goes something like "Innocent until proven Guilty"

Until all of the facts are known, I don't think anybody should be jumping to conclusions.

[buckee]

Re: Racial slurrs

huntn4bucks .. I understand what your saying. It is "very" possible that racist slurs and threats were made, and I don't doubt that they weren't made by at least one of the confronting hunters.

It sounds to me though, by reading the account from the police report, that there was a lot more going on here than just a self-defense position taken by the defendant.

1- Assuming he was turned around(lost) in the woods and not knowing where he was, why would he settle himself down in someone else's tree-stand and continue hunting??? That doesn't even make any sense to me. If I thought I was lost in the bush, the last thing on my mind is hunting. I would be trying to find my way out, not continue hunting. What if I got a deer??...where would I drag it too??...

I don't think he got turned aroundlost, until after the shooting spree. JMO

2- He was apparently deep inside the boundaries of private property (by a few hundred acres), not just on the out-laying border of the property.

3- Why did he stick around so long after being told to leave? He obviously stuck around long enough for the fellow who found him there to radio for his buddies and long enough for those buddies to show up. If you or I had of been caught on private property, sitting in someone else's private stand, we would have exited pretty darned quick after getting caught there by the owner.

4- If indeed it was a self defense issue, then why did he continue to shoot and chase down unarmed men and a woman?, when he could have fled at any time, which any sane individual would have done from the get-go.

5- Why would a person acting in self-defense shoot an unarmed man, pleading for help?? .. and other un-armed men??

6- If he was so fearful for his life, why did he throw the rest of his ammunition in the swamp after the killings, which he admitted to in the police report ??

7- And lastly..assuming once again, that the defendant here was shoot at first, why (if he thought his life was in danger) would he take the time to remove his scope from his gun, before unloading on the group?? Life and death situations don't ussually allow for such calculating actions (like Dartonman has already mentioned)

I'll be the first one to admit that bigotry and guns would make for a pretty volatile situation, but it sounds to me like there is a lot more to this story than just a scared trespasser defending himself.

No, I'm not Asian and we have a lot of bigotry in this area toward Asian people too, some because of illegal activity, but mostly because they are very hard workers who takes full advantage of opportunity. That seems to bother some people. I can't fault someone for that. I have worked with many Vietnamese and look up to them for their work ethics and their hard work. I'd be the first one to step up for any person who I saw being mistreated by some bigot.

It will definitely be interesting to see how this horrible tragedy plays out in the end.

When I first heard of the racist card being played here, I couldn't help thinking about OJ Simpson ...sorry

And Jeff (texastrophies) is right ..He is innocent until proven guilty in a court of law, but that doesn't mean we can't discuss what went on in the woods that day, since we aren't on the Jury.

[The_Kat]

Re: Racial slurrs

The whole ordeal is nothing more than a terrible tragedy that puts a black mark on hunters and the sport we all love so much an will do so for years to come. I don't know what happened, nor do any of you all. I can say he did this or he did that, and you can counter with well, what if he did this or that. The truth of the matter is we weren't there, we don't know...so arguing over it is pointless.

[huntn4bucks]

Re: Racial slurrs

[ QUOTE ]

I'll be the first one to admit that bigotry and guns would make for a pretty volatile situation, but it sounds to me like there is a lot more to this story than just a scared trespasser defending himself.

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely agree Buckee and like I said, I'm in no way defending this guy’s actions!!! The man committed heinous acts of violence...regardless of his race. It just upsets me that some people stereotype a complete race based on the actions of a few. Just yesterday someone made the comment that they would never go deer hunting with me now. It was just a joke and the person never actually made reference to my race but what do you think they were referring to? Believe me when I say this Buckee, I truly don't think or believe Vang should use race as a defense for his actions but unfortunately he and/or his attorneys probably will.

[fisherguy]

Re: Racial slurrs

[ QUOTE ]

I know this won't be real popular, but I think there is some saying that goes something like "Innocent until proven Guilty"

Until all of the facts are known, I don't think anybody should be jumping to conclusions.

[/ QUOTE ]NOrmally i would agree but the 8 people had one gun. After he shot that one man who was armed he thsn chased after and shot an unarmed man in the back(by his own admission), then finished off the others. Guilty! YOu confess to shooting someone who is unarmed and fleeing you no longer get the right to claim innocence or self defence.

[huntn4bucks]

Re: Racial slurrs

Grunter, I'm not saying that racial slurs caused Vang to do what he did and by no means am I saying it would be justified if they did. It's just sad that the actions of one person can create so much animosity not only towards hunters...but now Asians.

Everyone, please don't take me wrong. I'm not angry with anyone here and I hope no one sees me differently because of my posts. I'm just expressing my vantage point and experiences as somewhat of a minority. You're all still my buds!

[TreeStandBowHunter]

Re: Racial slurrs

OF COURSE HE IS GOING TO SAY THEY WERE SAYING RACIAL SLURS, THAT'S WHAT EVERYBODY DOES THESE DAYS! It's called an EXCUSE for their actions. It happens everyday in this country.

The man needs to FRY for what he did, PEROID...