OJR Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 Re: Do you tythe? $6,000,000 budget for a chuch is not a church but a big business and that is one more reason I could never believe in any organized religion that gets that big! In all churches, their number issue is money and that is the bottom line! If the people don't give enough, then throw some more scare tactics at them so they give more! All religion has gotten to be is "fear factor" so people will be lead to believe that unles they pay for their sins, they will not go to heaven! Pure rubbish!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted May 27, 2006 Report Share Posted May 27, 2006 Re: Do you tythe? I can't spell well, sorry. When realtree gets spell check I'll use it. You don't have a clue what our pastor, paster, Pasture does or what our church does. Would it make a difference if I told you that part of the churches budget includes over 3million in missions. Would it matter that we give over $750,000 to the community through our food pantry. Or would it make a difference to you if I told you that we have a private school that is subsidized with money from tythes and offerings to the tune of $400,000 so that low income families can send their children there at no charge. The school that we (the public school where I teach) annexed this year has less students then my churches school and the Superintendant made $72. His workload was less than half of what the churches school administrator. Our building complex is pretty big and we have a $5K a month elcetric bill, not to mention water or gas. For those of you who think $6Million is alot of money, you're right, it is. Would you want someone managing that money who couldn't afford to pay thier bills? God commands us to giv 10%. He dosn't ask or suggest or beg, He commands. Tything is being obidieant. If you you have 1K people in your churh that's going to be a lot of money. Our church is larger than average, but not big. If you think it's big turn on your tv on Sunday morning, you'll see what big is. By the way, our church or pastor has never asked for money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Re: Do you tythe? [ QUOTE ] $6,000,000 budget for a chuch is not a church but a big business and that is one more reason I could never believe in any organized religion that gets that big! In all churches, their number issue is money and that is the bottom line! If the people don't give enough, then throw some more scare tactics at them so they give more! All religion has gotten to be is "fear factor" so people will be lead to believe that unles they pay for their sins, they will not go to heaven! Pure rubbish!!! [/ QUOTE ] So, what you are saying is that if your church came to the point of where they had grown to an astronomical number in attendence and as a result of trying to keep up with everyone (i.e. hospitals, funeral homes, etc.) they had to staff 20 to 30 people to take care of it........that a budget of over a million dollars would be way to big? Last time I checked, churches have to pay light bills and water bills and gas bills and things like that, just like you do as a person. And as a result of it, it takes money to operate. I know for one, my church staffs three people. Myeself and two others. We pay our regular bills and then they pay our salaries but on top of all of these things, we have a big part of our budget set aside to give away for things like food kitchens and mission works and people who come in who need help. It doesn't matter to me what company or church that it is..........if it is going to be a good steward of what God has blessed it with..........then it has to watch its monies and set budgets to take care of all of it's needs. And in order for that to happen.........you have to look at the financial side of church work as a business. Don't believe me, ask the IRS, they will tell you that it is! And as far as you making the statement about all regligion becoming a "fear factor" and teaching people that they must pay for their sins is a false statement. Matter of fact, you have falsely judged me as a preacher and you don't even know me and have never heard me preach. You have falsely judged my church and you have never even once darkened the doors of it. Because never, and yes I mean never, would I tell a man that he would have to pay for his sins. Last time I checked, my Bible teaches me that Jesus has paid it all when He died on the cross for your sins and mine. It is a little something that we call "Grace"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowJoe Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Re: Do you tythe? I understand you being upset preacherman but you have to see it from the outside. If your convictions were so strong to serve the Lord then why do you only do it because you get paid for it? Would you do it for free? If so, then why take the money? God never said he would pay for you to serve him but he did say he would provide for you. That doesn't mean he would give you a comfortable life or one of luxury. The congregation is there but they work and are there when you are. They don't get paid to show up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
preacherman Posted May 28, 2006 Report Share Posted May 28, 2006 Re: Do you tythe? [ QUOTE ] I understand you being upset preacherman but you have to see it from the outside. If your convictions were so strong to serve the Lord then why do you only do it because you get paid for it? Would you do it for free? If so, then why take the money? God never said he would pay for you to serve him but he did say he would provide for you. That doesn't mean he would give you a comfortable life or one of luxury. The congregation is there but they work and are there when you are. They don't get paid to show up. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with you........God will provide for those who work for Him. And He has so graciously done that through a church who called me, not me calling them, but called me and asked me to come and be their Pastor. Would I do it for nothing? I have done it for nothing while working a secular job. Would I do it again? If the Lord led me in that direction, I would do it in a heartbeat. I am not upset or angry by the previous posts; I just can't understand the shallowness of thinking by some people concerning church and church work. I do see it from the outside. There are alot of preachers in the past and still today who do stupid things and as a result they make it that much harder for me to do my job. Case in point is me even having to defend my stance in this post. I have heard it all of my life. It wouldn't matter if a Pastor made $1 or $1,000,000 per year......they make to much. Everybody thinks the Pastor ought to "trust God" and let God provide for his family. And we do, every day of our lives. If you want to know the truth, I only make, after taxes, (self employment taxes mind you) $20,000 per year. This is in a growing "city setting" where the average salary for an average business man is $40 -$45,000 per year. I have had to sell and pray, cry and trust sometimes just to survive and provide for a family. It get frustrating when you go to Wal Mart to buy groceries and you can only buy a loaf of bread and so lunch meat and some necessities that you need all because you don't have the money to pay for it. Could I find a job making a whole lot more money? Yes, I could. But that is not what God called me to do or called me to be. You mention about the congregation being there when I am there. Brother, how wrong you are. A Pastor is on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. There is hardly a week that goes by that I don't work upwards of 70 hours and then some of those hours are after working all day.........you sit down to supper and the phone rings. You lay down in your bed at night and the phone rings. And these calls are from church people who need you. So, don't even go to the point that church people are there when you are there; because that it totally absurd and shallow. I don't know your pastor, even don't know if you go to church. But I know for one, that I work and I work hard every day. Sorry, if it sounds like I am upset........I am really not; just very frustrated at things like this; because I hear it so often and it is not the case everywhere you go. I hear so often, "think from the outside"........but the only problem with that is that people from the "outside" never think "from the inside". So, as you have asked me to "step out of the box"..........I encourage you to "step out of the box" and see what we, as full time Christian workers have to deal with on a regualr basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowhntr Posted May 29, 2006 Report Share Posted May 29, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? Most deffinately...10% and then some in additional offerings and donations to mission fields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? What I am saying is that ALL RRELIGIONS are nothing but a business to take money based on fear! I will admit that some do some good things for helping people in need, but that could be done without religion! There are more problems in the world on account of all these different religions than other factors! Look at Ireland, the Middle East and the Orient! Religion is the underlying factor to most of the problems in these areas! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? I have never felt any fear that made me want to tythe, nor do I feel fear when I havn't. I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. I would like to be able to give far more than 10%. Not out of fear or obligation or whatever. Just because it's the right thing to do. I'm sorry if you don't understand that OJR, I really wish you did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? [ QUOTE ] What I am saying is that ALL RRELIGIONS are nothing but a business to take money based on fear! [/ QUOTE ] Not true Orlan , but your entitled to your opinion. When I give, it's out of love, not fear. And I don't do it expecting to buy my way into heaven. That was already paid for in full, on the cross. I don't give blindly though. I make sure I know where my money is going before I commit. [ QUOTE ] There are more problems in the world on account of all these different religions than other factors! Look at Ireland, the Middle East and the Orient! Religion is the underlying factor to most of the problems in these areas! [/ QUOTE ] Can't disagree with that, but have you ever thought that maybe there is only one Truth, and the rest are lies, and that's why the conflict, or is it just easier for you to put the same label on them all and be done with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? To tithe is just part of the brainwashing process of religion! After they have anyone to the point of believing in religion, tithing just goes along with it! As to only one "Truth", it is all fantasy as far as I am concerned! Religion is the same as Santa Claus, Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny! There isn't any lies, it is just fantasy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? So is giving to charities or giving to others in need not in some ways similar to tithing even though it is not going directly to the church? This has been a really interesting thread. I kind of have to agree with part of what Orlan is saying here. Some churches(not religions) but the churches themselves are in fact ran as businesses, and they do make a lot of money. Think some of those businesses are not truly spreading what man needs and they are leading people to believe without coming out and saying it that so long as they are in the church and that if they are obediant that this pays their way. There is a way to ask without coming straight out and asking. When a plate is passed around, you are made without any words expressed to feel guilty if you do not give what you really are supposed to because of what is in you. Where do those thoughts come from? Who has conditioned the good christian to give that 10 percent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted May 30, 2006 Report Share Posted May 30, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? I can see where part of what Orlans saying is true.If it wasnt for fear you wouldnt even be in church.Deep down people dont know whats gonna happen after this life and it scares the crap outta them, so they goto church, give strangers 10% of thier income, and pray their not going to **** when the time comes.you cant hardly say its not correct, you might have other reasons as well for going to church but religion itself plays on everyones fears, thats why its lasted this long and is still popular. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowJoe Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? I just don't think money and religion belong together. I think the Catholics have more blame owed to them for the problems much of the world faces. I have my faith but I also have common sense. If your family is struggling to make ends meet then I can surely see your need to be paid for preaching but maybe the congregation needs to hear a sermon or two about God helping those who help themselves. Pass around the plate of responsibility to your congregation and get them to rely on their fellow sisterhood and brethren. Explain to them that you need to support you family and give them a financial boost as opposed to being at every beck and call for everyone. You will find great relief in showing them their own inner strength as well as helping your family more. About the outside the box comment. I grew up inside the box most of my life until I was about 19. I saw all sorts of performances where fire and brimstone were on the menu for the day. Of all the yelling, dancing, screaming and worry that was projected at almost every sermon, the one that I listened to the most was the one where they let me talk too. I asked questions and got answers. Too many times the preacher does all of the talking and none of the listening. I think the congregation looks for the preacher to have all of the answers but no one asked any questions. I think where people started losing interest in the church is when they were being lectured and not involved. If you can get a group of people to ask questions and make comments on topics then you have involved people and made them think without every shouting one word. If you want an example then take a look at this forum. People are here more than they are a church. It's family oriented and we very often talk about religion. This is one of my favorite sections of the forum. Open the doors and let the people have a voice. Jesus' disciples had that oportunity and look how dedicated and faithful they were. Jesus did not just preach to them. They asked him questions and he was involved with the whole group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? Best pastors/preachers I have ever listened to had either full or part time jobs and spoke their messages at the church without ever getting paid by the church. For some reason to me they just seemed more genuine. Also have to agree with what Joe is saying above. I really dont care to listen to one mans interpretations and be limited to hearing only what he thinks without be given the opportunity to share my thoughts. When we did go to church, I much preferred sunday school where you had an opportunity to speak over actually listening to a sermon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Re: Do you tithe? When you got to a church with 1K+ members like me it would be anarchy to have an open forum during church. Not that it doesn't happen occationally, but it's not something that needs to happen all the time. Jesus did have discussions with his deciples, but how many questions did he answer during the serman on the mount? I do question my pastor. I do have debates with him. He doesn't always convince me and he knows it. Sermon time is not the time for questions. We have our debates in the hall or in his office, or sometimes in his home. A good preacher will make time for his church. As far as helping each other out, I couldn't tell you how many times our church or Sunday school class, or just a group of guys or ladies have seen a need and have filled it. Whether it is monitary donations, clothes , cooking diner or going to someones house to clean up or fix a fence we take care of our own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Re: Do you tythe? Heck no my wife doesn't. And I won't allow it. The folks sitting in a treestand are more of an honest supporter of our creator than the BMW and Cadillac driving fake-smile, ask-how-you-are-then-talk-about-you-behind-the-back do-gooders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathcoerracin Posted May 31, 2006 Report Share Posted May 31, 2006 Re: Do you tythe? [ QUOTE ] $6,000,000 budget for a chuch is not a church but a big business and that is one more reason I could never believe in any organized religion that gets that big! In all churches, their number issue is money and that is the bottom line! If the people don't give enough, then throw some more scare tactics at them so they give more! All religion has gotten to be is "fear factor" so people will be lead to believe that unles they pay for their sins, they will not go to heaven! Pure rubbish!!! [/ QUOTE ] wow man thats a messed up view! ive never had a pastor try to scare me into titheing or however you spell it. I give my 10% whenever i can and i plan on doing so till the day God takes me home! Matter of fact i leave to go on a mission trip this friday! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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