wtnhunt Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 With what took place in Wisconsin and some of the comments that have been made I have to admit I am a bit irritated. what difference does it make that is was an sks. The sks has not ever been on any weapons ban lists as far as I know unlike the similarly designed ak-47. The sks is getting a bad rap due to this idiot. What if he had a semi auto bar with a 5 round capacity and he reloaded a few times? After reading the report from another link in here, Vang did in fact reload before firing more shots. So what is the difference really if it was this rifle that may not look like most hunting rifles, the people were killed and it is not the fault of the gun. Blaming this on a type of weapon is just what the antis want to hear and hearing some of the remarks from other hunters in here because it is not a weapon you would use is pretty irresponsible. Dont bash the weapon for this monsters actions. I read one comment in here that just does not set well with me. The suggestion that setting up an sks for hunting is in any way difficult is an ignorant statement. I took mine out of the box after I purchased it in the early 90's, and it was dead on with the factory open sights. Shot my first deer with that gun without ever having had made any adjustments to it whatsoever and it was the cleanest kill on a deer I have ever had, that deer went three steps and fell dead. Was not going to bring this up, but the thought of some folks out there giving way to the idea that this what some are calling an "assault" type rifle made the situation any worse for those who were murdered is just not something that should be presumed, and this type of mentality leads to seperation amongst hunters. The sks as manufactured does have a 10 round capacity. Some semi auto rifles designed for hunting have 5 or even 6 round capacities. He did reload. many popular hunting rifles are semi autos. An sks can be sportorized with synthetic stocks and other accesories to look just like a modern hunting rifle. We as hunters need to recognize that this nut not the gun is responsible and blaming the gun is only adding to what the anti gun people are out to do. Fact is most states say you are supposed to only have so many rounds in the mag. Here in TN it is supposed to be only 3, in yet I hear folks out there with semi autos shooting 4 and 5 successive rapid shots during the deer season on occasions. Bottom line is this guy was willingly breaking the law and his killing spree is not the result of what weapon he was using, but was due to his lack of respect for human life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon Guns, tanks, hand-grinades, missiles, bombs, etc, etc, etc, don't kill people ...People kill people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon i new this was coming, the anti's look for any kind of ammo (sorry for the pun) to use against our rights. I'm sure if it was a bolt action the whole situation would have been avoided It will all blow over, especially when more truths come out about that "community" this whack-o belonged to. I would like to be in charge of his punishment, he would die slowly and painfully. It's guys like him that will eventually ruin our heritage, he's already destroyed several families. Let's remember to keep the survivors and the families of the slain in our prayers. Man, I'm fired up about this whole mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oo_buck Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon I made a reply in one of the other posts on this forum about the situation..... I'll paraphrase in this reply... I believe that a baseball bat in the hands of a madman, is an "assault weapon".. That re-stated let me keep going. I don't care if the guy jumped out of the tree and bludgeoned these people with a sledgehammer, it was wrong, PERIOD. The means by which he chose to kill these people is not important. The act of killing these people is the problem.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon [ QUOTE ] It will all blow over, especially when more truths come out about that "community" this whack-o belonged to. [/ QUOTE ] Muggs...Lets not turn this tragedy into a racist public linching OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest huntinsanobsession Posted November 24, 2004 Report Share Posted November 24, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon i agree with you 100% GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE. PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archerjg Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon It would not have mattered what the guy was using, it is just being blown out of proportion because it was an SKS and it should not be. Archerjg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billygoat Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon William: here is my original post: His latest claim is that he was shot at first after racial slurs were thrown at him, so he began to shoot back. I don't mean to dog the SKS (I am certainly not for the restriction of firearms) but that rifle has been nothing but trouble to the deer hunter since it showed up in the early 90's. It is difficult to set up, and many (some) of the individuals who hunt w/ it set it up like an assault rifle. You hear them rattle of 15 to 20 rounds at a deer and wonder what the **** their thinking. The sad fact is, this whole situation is bad for all of us hunters. I am not a racist, and certainly strive to promote unity between all cultures, however, the mung community is notorious for tresspassing and as previously mentioned they are often exempt from prosecution due to their inability to understand the english language. This might be crazy : but I believe any individual applying for a liscence (in today's society) regardless of age, race, sex, or ethnic background, should be required to present a valid hunter education card. That might bother some individuals in their 40's and 50's who have hunted for years, but for the good of the sport, and to weed out the idiots, I think it is necessary. I can see where you would perceive the statement as ignorant as you read through the description of the SKS being "nothing but trouble"... what I should have, and meant to say, was that the rifle lends itself to trouble... I know I have owned 3. They have the capability to be set up w/ multiround clips, fold away stocks, bayonettes, (as stated, any rifle CAN lend itself to trouble, and indeed, it is the individual who does the killing) in fact, I do not know how Vang's Gun was set up, my understanding is, though, that he did have a clip that exceeded WI's limit and I would bet the farm that he was shooting FMJ ammo (which is also illegal in WI) since it is so cheap and readily available (once again, I do not know that for a fact)... I DO think, that if a gun is "set up" in a manner that does not promote ethical hunting... does it really have a place in the woods. Whether it is an SKS spraying 20 rounds at a running deer, or a Ruger 10/22 spraying 50 rounds at a rabbit, it is the responsibility of the hunter to use a weapon that promotes a clean kill. If you are able to set-up your SKS in a manner to effectively take deer (and I was able to w/ a fair amount of gunsmitting), then by all mean carry it afield, but I will take Odds w/ any hunter who takes a weapon to the field, w/ improper ammo, w/ an intent to spray shots, or w/ an unsighted weapon... we are sportsman. I do appologize for a rather poorly placed post initially (as this incident began to evolve). I think many of us will look back in retrospect, and wish we had not be so quick to press the submit button. People certainly kill people, not guns, and our goal as sportsmen should be to promote legislation that encourages ethical, moral, and knowledgable, hunting behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon I've noticed (in my opinion) during these type of tradegies that if the killer is shot dead, it seems more emphasis is put on the weapon (i.e. assault rifle), but if the killer is still alive, more emphasis is put on him/her. It's like we channel our attention to the one last thing we can put our hands on. That's what I see anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetailkiller Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon [ QUOTE ] Guns, tanks, hand-grinades, missiles, bombs, etc, etc, etc, don't kill people ...People kill people [/ QUOTE ] my sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!! thanks bickee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted November 25, 2004 Report Share Posted November 25, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon Hey man I dont know. I once shot myself right in the hand with one of those "staplers". I am now in the process of sueing the manufacturing companies for millions because it was a dangerous weapon.... Asking for banning of all semi auto and automatic "staplers", Etc etc etc...... Yea see how stupid it looks and sounds when you put any other word in the place of the word "gun"....??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon billygoat, I can see what you are saying. It is not just your post, but also have seen some views in here that seem to share the same idea that no one needs to have a gun like this in the woods. Seems that some people think because they would never hunt with a certain weapon which may be perfectly legal, that it is bad to hunt with that weapon. With hearing the crap coming from the media so quickly about this and some of the stupid questions they asked I think we as hunters really need to stick together whether you personally would hunt with the gun or not. The negativity directed towards this particular weapon in this situation and others in cases where a whacko loses it, lets those uneducated about firearms get lead to the thoughts of that weapon needing to be banned, because it may have a capabilty. All guns have a capablity to kill innocent people. The sks is not by itself responsible for anything that took place, and it did get a bad rap due to this nut that used his, however it was equipped, to kill human beings. I do agree that a 20 or 30 round clip has no place in the woods and that should not be an issue. The gun itself however is a very effective deer rifle with very little needing to be done to it. As for the ease factor in equipping the gun, I do remember taking the bayonet off of mine, think that is all I did with it prior to hunting aside from cleaning the grease it was packed in off of it and the practice shooting I did with it well before hunting with it. As I said before out of the box my sks was extremely accurate and with the sights out to 100 yards it held very tight groups. Here in TN the law says 3 rounds in your mag and no FMJ ammo is not allowed here either. The capacity on the sks from the factory is 10 rounds, but so long as you only load what is allowed by your state it should be perfeclty legal as a semi auto hunting rifle for use in rifle hunts in state that allow rifle hunting. The hunter or person who is using it should know and follow the laws set forth by their state. Bottom line with Vang, if he had a 20 round clip and had it loaded to capacity he was not intending to hunt deer and he was in violation of the law, exceeding the number of rounds allowed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitetailkiller Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Guns, tanks, hand-grinades, missiles, bombs, etc, etc, etc, don't kill people ...People kill people [/ QUOTE ] my sentiments exactly!!!!!!!!! thanks bickee [/ QUOTE ] sorry buckee i didn't mean to call you bickee!!!!lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon Far from me to say about not allowing the SKS for deer hunting! If its allowed in your state, great! But I just glad PA doesn not allow semi-auto rifles. There is enough IDIOTS here with rifles whom I feel personally need more training with them! But this is nothing more than more fuel for the anti's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon [ QUOTE ] sorry buckee i didn't mean to call you bickee!!!!lol [/ QUOTE ] bickee, buckee...what's the difference eh ...I've been called worse I'm not saying I think that anyone and his brother should be able to own tanks, hand-grinades, missiles, bombs, etc, etc, etc ..I was just stating a fact about who kills who, not what kills who. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted November 28, 2004 Report Share Posted November 28, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon As has been pointed numerous times in this post, it is people that kill, not guns. To blame a particular type of firearm or firearms in general is ridiculous. It's the EXACT same thing as blaming CARS for people killed by drunk drivers. It just doesn't make sense. This guy committed first degree intentional homicide. I think as Wisconsinites, it's time for hunters to organize and push for some of what billygoat suggested. There should not be ANY exemption from hunter safety certification regardless of age---everyone should have it. Also, we need to make sure that those who commit violent crimes are punished severely--so much so, that they will not have a chance to commit them again. All cheesehead hunters who support the death penalty should organize as well and push the state to reinstate it. Oh yeah, and let's not make it pleasant like lethal injection either. For the death penalty to actually BE a deterrent, it must be public and painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billygoat Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon States Attorney General should be pressing charges against Vang this AM, hopefully, by the wording of the Charges, we should gain some insight as to Vang, previous criminal activity, and his role as a "hunter", then hopefully we will see a quick and just trial... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldawg Posted November 29, 2004 Report Share Posted November 29, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon This is a bad case of people trusting that other people will just talk a problem over. Too many people bit the dust in this case, because they weren't thinking. After the first guy got shot, I would have sniped the little bugger out of that treestand, instead of riding into his sights with a 4 wheeler. As far as the gun goes, it can't do a single thing on it's own power. It needs a goofball behind it to kill people. Cut, and dry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted November 30, 2004 Report Share Posted November 30, 2004 Re: Blaming a weapon If guns cause crimes,then my pencil cause mispelled words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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