Orion_70 Posted October 12, 2002 Report Share Posted October 12, 2002 I have to say Watch Out for Anything the Lerftist Media has to say. I agree with Deerslayer on this, just because they say it's not a popular hunting round, what is their agenda for saying so. It's just another good reason to ban sniper type weapons IE. BOLT ACTION 223 maybe? Why not just ban the cartridge for civilian use and only leave that for a Military Caliber since it's not a widely used hunting round anyway. I don't trust anything the media does, just look at the President's Address the other night, only ONE station carried it. THe others didn't want to give him any media exposure. Why, it's simple the media is a bunch of Left Wing, Liberal, Gun Hating people. It's sad, but they will use anything to further their agenda, even the killing of innocent civilians by a lunatic. I'll get off the soapbox now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddpipkin Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Well, wtnhunt, you and Katie and lots of others should research more thoroughly before speaking. The .22 centerfires are perfectly legal in several states. I know that for the smallish deer in South Alabama where I sometimes hunt, they are fairly popular and quite effective. I have used a .223 myself a couple of times and never had a problem. I will admit that the .22's are not ideal for deer; the hunter must be extra cautious of range and shot placement, but shouldn't it be that way for ALL calibers. For smaller game (coyotes, groundhogs, turkeys, crows, ets.) .22 centerfires are nearly perfect. I wonder how the Maryland/D.C. LEO's know that they are dealing with a .223, not a .222 or .222 Magnum or .22/250 or .22 Hornet or any number of .22 wildcats or ........... You get the picture. They say they found an empty .223 case near one shooting scene. So what? I found a live 20mm cannon round in the woods while hunting one time. I found a piece of grapeshot on the site of a civil war battle in 1968. Had to have been there at least 104 years. I lost a whole bag of 100 rounds of 7mm Rem. Mag. brass when I accidentally left it on top of the toolbox of my truck when I left the range. I drove 30 miles before realizing my goof. As far as the news media telling those who don't know any better that the .223 is not poular for hunting---- Do YOU believe everything that the leftist media say? No? Do you want the people who will be voting in a few weeks to believe everything they say? No? Then you had better hope that those same people don't believe them now on this issue, either. They can say "Ban this caliber. It isn't used for hunting, only by the military and by criminals for killing people." If the "sheeple" believe them and allow it to happen, .308 (invented by and for the military) is next. Then .30/06. Then any caliber that has EVER been used by the military. Then any caliber that has EVER been used by a nutcase to kill or injure or even attempt to harm someone. DON'T, by your implied agreement, give them the proverbial inch that gets them going on our mile !!! [ 10-12-2002, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: wing_0_nut ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billkay Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber So lets see if I have this right, if the media, the "Leftist" media that is, makes any connection to the sniper with hunters, that's wrong, however, if they say this type of weapon has no real hunting value, that's wrong too. Which is it guys? I don't see how you can have it both ways. You think the determination of the .223 caliber round may have come from ballistic tests from retrieved bullets form the victims, and not just from an empty case found at one of the scenes? I guess some people will never be satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddpipkin Posted October 13, 2002 Report Share Posted October 13, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Except that recovered bullets can tell a lot about the bullet, but not necessarily about the cartridge that the bullet came from. My point is that MANY calibers use bullets of .223 diameter. The fact that an empty .223 Remington case was found in the vicinity of one crime scene is NOT definitive proof that a firearm of that caliber was used. Yes, it does lend strong credence to the hypothesis, but it is NOT proof. It is not known from where the shot was fired. It is not known if the shooter dropped the empty case. Even if he or she did, it could be a red herring to avert suspicion from his .22/250, or .220 Swift, or....... Oh, DANGIT, not again. I belive that it is irresponsible to release information of this type without being sure. So, the upstanding media are not connecting this to hunters. Then why have I heard so many references to "hunting rifle" on the news networks ? This is an OLD tactic."Dam*ed by faint praise."(Stinkin' auto edit asterisks, force you to misspell !!!) Hey, wtnhunt, when did you stop beating your wife ?? [ 10-14-2002, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: wing_0_nut ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Hey wing_o_nut...the stinkin' auto edit is there for a reason...not for you to figure out how to spell something different to get around it!!!!!! Please go in and edit your reply. And what was the whole "beating the wife thing"? I hope that is some inside joke that I know nothing about. If not...please take care of that too! As far as a .223 being a hunting round? I know several people who own that cal. for many perposes...just because it isn't a popular cal. for some...doesn't mean we should let the media ban it! Not positive...but I think if they do tests on the case that they found...they can determine how long ago it was fired (if it was recent). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Im with Billkay on this, you guys cry when they connect the gun to hunters, you cry when they say its not a hunting caliber.Does the word Paranoid have any meaning to some of you.Theres a guy running around shooting people and your worried about how its gonna affect your rights cause of some crap the media puts out.Well I got to say its probably no worse than any of the other crap the media puts out 365 days a year.Wing nut, I agree with you on one part, the caliber never should have even been made public.But I agree with Snapper on the rest, please edit your post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeWalker Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Keep it clean guys....we're having a good debate here....no reason to beat the "auto-edit" or eachother up for that matter... Myself find it refreshing that the media is misinformed in our favor for once.......we need all the help as firearms owners, as we can. I found it interesting in another report..as they we're describing the use of AR15's..and how they have been illegal for the public to own since 1994..I don't exactly know what they were referring to, because I bought my Colt H-Bar Elite brand new in the box in '99(semi-auto)....and I believe if you're willing to pay the federal charge ($300 annual ?)and register yourself, you can own yourself a full auto....anybody know for sure ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber What would be better for the media to say? “Hunting rifle used in killings” or “Hunting round used in killings” Or how about this; “Assault rifle used in killings” or “Assault rifle round used in killings” I don’t think anyone wants to see any of these headlines in any paper or on the news. It indirectly links hunters with a mass killer running loose in the D.C. area. Why not something like this for the news caption; “Mad man on the loose” or “Insane killer stalks area” When this guys is caught and lets pray it’s soon, what if it turns out to be someone that’s a “hunter” and maybe a “construction worker”. Will you care then if the media turns this into a circus directed and construction workers that happen to hunt also? The media has classified you then, linked you with a mass murderer, will you give a rats behind then? The .223 round is used quite a lot, it’s a great round and in my opinion one of the best rounds if you’re needing something that’s flat and accurate. I’ve used that round shooting small game at long distances, the military has also used that round in combat for years. Somewhere someone in a political position is thinking at this moment that this type of round shouldn’t be available for the general populace. And in some hair-brained twisted agenda will suggest that it’s for the good of all American’s if the government would just take all these rounds off the market. There goes my primary ground hog and praire dog rifle not to mention my AR-15. All of which are legal to own today. Remember, a politician can construed things into sounding like they’re good but in the end are useless. You reap what they sew just so they can get re-elected. Snap, the wife beating thing is a metaphor. “Have you stopped beating your wife yet?” Answer No and it implies you have beaten your wife and continue to do so. Answer Yes and it implies you have in the past but have stopped now. Either way you answer the question you’re screwed, you’re labeled now, classified with a certain group. Starting to see the picture? Yes horst we cry a lot when someone classifies to a mass murderer in the same group as hunters, the question is why don’t more hunters cry foul? Was Son of Sam or the Boston Strangler a knife collector? Was Aileen Wuornos a gun enthusiast? Was the guy in Texas just a baseball fan or baseball bat collector? Was Donald Harvey just another nurse? Yeah, and Jeffery Dalhmer was just looking for his next meal. The question is why does the media seem to have to link someone killing others with certain groups of people. It seems perfectly appropriate to classify them as mass murderers. But no, we choose to argue among ourselves on who’s right, who’s wrong, who really doesn’t care anymore and who's offending who. PH [ 10-14-2002, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: ParrotHead ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion_70 Posted October 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Yeah Horst I guess I do CRY when someone in the media tries to make a conneciton with hunters and gun owners to some crazed lunatic running around shooting people at random. I hope they catch the guy soon. The less people will die and the less BAD Press gun owners will get out of it. Somebody better be screaming. Oh, I forgot we can still purchase all the guns and clips we did 10 yrs ago. Guess I'm being Paranoid thinking someone in the government might actually ban some type or model of firearms and clips holding more than 10 rds. How silly of me. [ 10-14-2002, 10:46 AM: Message edited by: orion_70 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber So by them not linking this gun to hunting its gonna open the door for some politician to ban your guns?Becuase thats what this post was started out as saying.Is it linked to gun owners in general, yes.It always is.I think its kinda refreshing myself that someone actually took the time to see what the gun is used for.At least for once their stating facts and not still harping on what was first reported.Orion, i hope people will stop dieing to so you dont get anymore bad press,screw the victims just so you aint getting any bad press huh, thats quite a statement. PH, you are right, these people should all be classified as mass murderers.The fact that this wackos using a gun instead of a knife shouldnt classify him as something hes not, a hunter.But the media tries to take the focus off the gun being a hunting round and is still upsets people, thats the part Im having trouble figuring out, what exactly could they report that wont offend anyone?Maybe they should focus more on his shot placement, would that make everyone happy?I hear he just winged a couple of em.See, i bet I just offended someone.Theres no way they can say anything now thats not gonna get people upset, weather its right or wrong, i just dont understand how some people can go through life looking for a government conspiracy behind every door, some things you just gotta let go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber If a killer used a knife would he be stereotyped as a butcher, or a chef or a ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion_70 Posted October 14, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Horst, Why don't you go buy a 30 rd clip for a 10-22. That's right, you can't because they've been banned. (unless they were already made) By the media not linking the gun to hunting yes they are opening the door for an argument of why does the civilian market need this caliber if it's not widely used for hunting or recreational target shooting. I believe it was James Carville, Clinton's political strategist, that said he doesn't believe there is a Constitutional right to own a firearm, but it's a loser political issue. Maybe you should wake up and realize that there are plenty of politicians out there that believe no one besides the military should own firearms. I'm not looking for Black Helicopters and sweeping for bugs on my vehicle, I'm looking at the facts and that is some guns and clips have already been made illegal by our government. No conspiracy there, just cold hard facts. There are politicians and groups out there now just waiting to use this tragic chain of events to advance their case against privately owned firearms. That's sometihing I don't want to see and something we as gun owners need to speak out against. The media shouldn't focus on the gun that was used or caliber, it should focus on a deranged psychhotic out there murdering innocent people. It's not the guns fault a psycho behind it is pulling the trigger and I don't like to be associated or classed by the actions of those deranged individuals just because I own guns for hunting. I think everyone wants this individual to be caught quickly so more innocent people won't die. Yes, I do feel for the victims and their families and may God watch our for them, but I'm not going to stick my head in the sand either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber I believe I stated to Snapper in another thread that the only way you'll never offend someone is to keep your mouth shut horst. I hope that never happens because without offending someone, problems will never go unseen and problems will exsist only inside until they cause us to explode. Again, the media doesn't need to classify or even insinuate some type of classification until they know who's doing the killings. Before you know it, the .223 rounds will be solely classified as sniper rounds or assault weapon rounds and guess what, they'll be banned just like the guns and magazines were a few years ago. One more step, one more ban, one more win for tryanny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Let me give you an example. How many Postal workers have actually walked into a place of business and shoot up the place with a AK-47? The way most people steryotype Postal workers you would think it was almost a pre-requsite to filing for an application. You can't continually offer up any class of people when comparing to mass murderers.....it's just not the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Ok....never really heard the "wife beating thing"...guess I'm too young! But I'm still not happy about someone spelling a word differently to get around the editing software! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Orion, thats the best explanation Ive heard for what you are trying to say.If its not a widely used cartridge it could be banned.I now understand where you are coming from.Im well aware of the politicians out there who dont think civilians need guns.It was my opinion this post was about the media, not politicains, that would kinda be off on a whole different thread such as how will the politicians use this to ban our guns or something.But i guesse politicians and the media go hand in hand so maybe im wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddpipkin Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Is what the shooter is doing "hunting" in the normally used sense of the word? NNNOOO!!! Then why is the word "hunting" used in the news coverage at all? For one reason -- PROPAGANDA !!! They have absolutely NO IDEA what type of gun the bullets they recovered came from. The best they can say is that it had a bore of .223, and that it had (this many) lands and grooves. Yet they hold up an AR-15, an AK-74 and a couple of other examples of what they call "assault weapons", alongside a Remington 722 and other telescopically sighted hunting "weapons", all the while harping on the word "sniper", which, in the minds of the uneducated, permanently links the word with the picture on the screen. If you think that this linkage is accidental, you have your head in a dark and stinky place. Yes, that is another metaphor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddpipkin Posted October 14, 2002 Report Share Posted October 14, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Sorry, you guys were posting as I was typing. I was so using both fingers! Other post edited. orion and PH--thanx for helping make the point clear. [ 10-14-2002, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: wing_0_nut ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldksnarc Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Bottom line is - it is personal responsibility. Pure and simple and regardless what anyone (media) would have us believe. I have a number of weapons - hunting, personal defense, duty. Shoulder and handguns. I can take any one of them and lay them out in public view/access. It will sit there forever until someone comes along and picks it up. The person that picks it up determines what will happen with it. One person who picks it up will use it to hunt and feed himself and his family. The other will use it to cause harm to others. The gun has no mind of its own. The manner it will be used is in the mind of the holder. Every gun can be used as a sniper weapon. Sniper means someone who fires on another human from a covert position. It's not the gun. It's how its used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted October 15, 2002 Report Share Posted October 15, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Well Snap ole buddy, there will be a lot of things in this lifetime that won't make you happy. Some will be avoidable and some won't and most won't be worth the time you worry about them. I believe the true measure of man is his ability to remain calm while those around him panic. You posses a lot of these characteristics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toddpipkin Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 Re: Not a popular hunting caliber Are you speaking for yourself? I have not purchased a Pepsi product, or an Arm & Hammer product, or Clorox, or ....... many others since I found out that they supported the "Brady Bunch". I found out that KFC, Burger King and Taco Bell were owned by Pepsico, stopped eating there.(These have since been sold off to new owners.) Hallmark Cards, Southland Co. (7-11 Stores), others. Lots of other companies,too. Be careful where you spend your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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