Are we spoiled shooters?

[Jeramie]

While I was shooting this past weekend I got to thinking about something. I shot my .243 prone off a bi-pod. Then I shot an M1 off a monopod, etc. Eventually I pulled out the old 30-30 Winchester and shot off hand.

I was pretty amazed and the groupsl They werent anywhere close to where I thought they would be! Ive gotten spoiled to shooting aids. Honestly any of the shots would have killed a deer but non could really even be considered a group.

With the world of shooting aids I wonder if its even mandatory, in any degree, to shoot off hand or if we are getting remotely spoiled?

I had a off hand shot on a doe last year with a ML. I was in the edge of a field with nothing to use a rest. I took a 50 yard shot. Occasionally its a skill we still need, but then again thats just my $.02.

What say ye?

[wtnhunt]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

Dont know Jeramie, dont have a bipod or monopod on any of the guns we have. I prefer to shoot sitting with a good solid rest, but realistically I know that in a couple of my ladder stands I dont have a rest and so I do practice shooting from different positions. Dont think I would really say I am spoiled when it comes to shooting aids, but I am probably the wrong person to ask.

One of my best deer ever killed was shot with me standing at 85 yards taking an off hand shot on a quick stop with a mouth call to the deer.

[VTbowman]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

I "try" to use some sort of rest even if its a branch or the side of a tree, etc.

I do not carry bi-pods or a mono-pod but I do most of my hunting from tree stands and box stands where I have a good rest to rely on.

However I have taken off hand shots and there are ways to aid in a more steady shot.

If your able to, take a knee and use it to rest your elbow to help steady you,

Obviously prone is the most stredy and just use a pack or available brush, rocks, etc.

While standing a good sling wrap-n-grab helps too.

A couple years ago I too had a out in the open, long grass field shot.

320 yards on a buck that was broad side.

Remington 700LSS 300 Ultra Mag, big Luppy scope and no sling.

Real off hand shooting. LOL

I hit it twice 4 inchs apart.

1st shot I was not sure I hit it with the recoil obscuring my view. It started to trot off.

2nd shot dropped it with a spine hit.

[OJR]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

There is a multitude of things to help us when it comes to shooting. I will use anything there is to make my rifle steady before I shoot. This is to make sure that I don't wound any game and it goes and I can't find it and it suffers because of it!

I have taken a lot of game with offhand shots, but it has to be the last resort before I will do it!

[hutchies]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

Jeramie, Shooting without a stead rest if for the movies. Even the old timers used the trees. I don't own a mono or bi pod. I do however go cut me a treelimb before season that looks like a Y and that is what I shoot off of. Freehanding is fun at the range but it is not the best idea for hunting. I did shoot one of my does freehand last year and hit her right behind the shoulder but I still prefer a rest.

[Jeramie]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

Oh I prefer a rest, thats why I buy them. But much like last year, there are occasions when you dont have time or a rest available.

I hit the doe hard but I felt like a fish out of water throwing the ML up free hand. To me that a shot that should be practiced for those quick shots that dont offer a steady rest.

[Guest littlered]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

i sight in my gun on a good solid rest. after that i spend 70% on my time practicing off hand shots. after time on the range i'm breaking clays at 100 yrds with open sights. i think most people depend on rests to much and when they don't have one they end up making a bad shot and wounding animals they'll never find.

however i do agree that whenever a rest can be used it should be used.

red

[Washi]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

I think if you don't practice offhand shooting you give up opportunities at deer unnecessarily. Deer are not 100% predictable. In fact I think everyone should practice running shots too. Just because it might be rare you need a second shot doesn't mean you won't eventually need to take one. Those second shots are almost always running offhand shots.

[Guest HaDeRonDa]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

I sight in with a solid rest and during the season I let hte distance usually determine what shooting position I take.

Rarely do I ever need to be prone. Most shots I take are from the sitting position though many are from the offhand position. Using a manufactured rest I have not done. A Y stick or a tree branch works wonders. Less to carry too!

[Jeramie]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

[ QUOTE ]

In fact I think everyone should practice running shots too. Just because it might be rare you need a second shot doesn't mean you won't eventually need to take one. Those second shots are almost always running offhand shots.

[/ QUOTE ]

At first I was like.....

But you are correct! Rarely do you need that second shot but if you drift a little far back/ forward youll need that ability.... Good Point.

[elkoholic]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

Short answer is, yes. Any hunter will agree that, whenever possible, one should use a rest, but if you can not make an off hand shot from at least 50 yards, or better yet 100, you may miss that one opportunity. In my style of hunting, where I am often trailing a buck or still hunting likely looking terrain, there is not always a tree or rock handy to use for a rest, and any movement such as employing shooting aids would spook the animal, I have to be competent at shooting off hand. I much prefer to slip from tree to tree using tree trunks to steady my aim, but those pesky deer and elk have a way of ruining those plans. I personally find the increasing reliance on "gadgets" instead of skill to be somewhat disturbing. But, that's another story.

[257bob]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

It was once put to me this way.

"Why wouldn't you want to give yourself every advantage of making a clean and precise shot?"

I practice off hand quite often. A great way to practice (and a ton of fun) is to shoot jack rabbits on the run with your deer rifle, but when I'm hunting deer or coyotes I always have a bipod on my gun and carry shooting sticks for the times the grass is taller than my bipod. I always use a rest for deer and coyotes.

[AJ]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

Personally, I will not hesitate to shoot offhand, running game, etc. I do shoot quite a bit and if I am not working up a load or sighting in a scope, I shoot a lot offhand. I know some shooters that can shoot better offhand than some can from the bench. They are high power silhouette shooters. They shoot 500 yards off hand. Granted it does not have to be a vital shot on the metal rams, but overall they are better shots than the average hunter on a bench.

I prefer to use a rest whenever possible. I have taken shots offhand while my stix layed on the ground as they would not allow me to get high enough to clear grasses. Actually, I have found it's easier to hit running game offhand than it is to shoot stationary game offhand. If I am swinging on game, I have very little verticle movement of the crosshair. Once the desired lead is there, its a dead critter.

[257bob]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

AJ, it is true I know people who can hit a ram at 500 yards off hand, but that same guy's group will shrink tremendously if you give him a solid rest everytime . We should all practice off hand and running shots, however; well over 75% of the time their is plenty of time to get a solid rest and take the shot.

Another thought, a guy who customizes his load to shoot half inch or better (at 100 yards)is going to without a doubt be more prepared to hit his target off hand than the guy who is happy hitting a pie plate at a 100.

[too_pointer]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

I agree, if there is some type of rest available, I will use it. I sit on the ground most of the time and when I use branches and tree to make up some sort of cover, I lay something to use for a rest. I have yet to wound and lose a deer in 40 years and a steady rest has alot to do with it !!

too_

[AJ]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

[ QUOTE ]

well over 75% of the time their is plenty of time to get a solid rest and take the shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have not found that to be the case with my hunting. The majority of my shots are offhand. Granted not all are long range, but I would say that less than 40% of my kills have been from a rest of some sort. The last half dozen deer I have shot have been running also. I regularly see deer that are stationary or under ideal conditions, but the deer I have shot have not given much setup time.

[Doc]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

My deer hunting is generally done from a prepared ground stands with plenty of gun rests available. however your question was are we getting spoiled by using such crutches. In my case, the answer is probably yes. There is no question that I cannot shoot as well offhand as I can using some kind of rest. Of course it is also true that I cannot shoot as well using open sights as I can using a scope. It is also true that I cannot shoot as well using an old flintlock as I can using any of my more modern rifles. There are a lot of improvements that we use to shoot better. If they're available, why not use them? If you are interested in being a purist about some form of your shooting, that is something else. But, I adjust my equipment to suit my abilities and limitations, and I am very honest about assessing my shortcomings. Given the amount of time that I have to donate to shooting sports, that seems like a realistic thing to do. Is that being spoiled or simply being realistic?

Doc

[Jeramie]

Re: Are we spoiled shooters?

Very good answer doc!

I wasnt saying that we are spoiled because we use sticks and such, persay. It was more of a "Are we prepared?" question. Personally ive been shooting most of my life but last year found that a quick off hand shot was a little out of place. I realized how much I had come to lean on rest....

I take advantage of todays technology too. Trust me, I only one own rifle without a scope and its an old Winchester 30-30.

Regardless, great reply!