Yes it does affect you.

[heathcoerracin]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

[ QUOTE ]

I'm just going by what I see in todays society.It used to be a black man would work hard for his family, have decent values, and still be ridiculed for being black. Now most( not all) black people are content at being in poverty and don't do a thing about it except beg for handouts and say they are "disadvantaged". Most "especially younger african americans" embrace a culture of "gangsta's and ho's", foul language and other perversions. They're not inherently bad, they're born into it. It's just a difference of cultures, right and wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree 100%!!!!! I see it every day in the public school! AS they say..the apple dont fall far from the tree

[BowJoe]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

The basic surmise of what I think is this: Life isn't fair. Fair is where you buy a quilt and pet rocks. If the world were perfect, gay men and women would be straight, pedaphiles would only like adults, the light would always be green just for you and St. Judes would never be needed. Unfortunately it's an unfair world and we can't always get what we want. I don't approve of the gay way because nature itself dictates that it's wrong. I don't need to detail why it's true but it's true. If you don't believe me then ask your mommy and daddy. I think that judging a person based more on their own individual actions and personality is more important than a broad paint brush coating. That being said, there is a thin line between fact and fiction in what somebody says is typical about a certain race, sexuality and devious behavior. I grew up hearing the same racist remarks about minorities and in the back of my mind I thought they were all false and just couldn't be true. Now however, I believe their is some truth to some commonalities. As far as personality goes, most of the gay people I work with are very polite and not at all straightbashers and constantly looking for the next guy or girl to be a friend to. I don't however see why anybody has to talk or walk a certain way just because they are gay. Always baffles me. As far as perverts and child molestors go, I guess the Catholic church has proven my point better than I could even try. It goes to show that you don't know what's on the inside of a book unless you open it up and read all the dirty little secrets. I don't care how a person sins as long as it doesn't harm anyone else in any way. Just my oppinion

[wtnhunt]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

I thought I was going to back out of this debate, but it has gotten kind of humorous. I certainly don't understand this idea of having no control over your own mind, honestly that makes me shake my head.

Like mentioned above the deals with the churches, where do they get the notions to take these evil actions? John, you yourself have several times come right out and blasted the Catholic church, even sent me a pm about another member here and how you felt he was ticked at you or had something against you because of your comments about the catholic church. Do the priests watch porn John, what outside factors have conditioned them to molest little boys and engage in homosexuality. you really got me curious on this one? Oh I know maybe it is all wal marts fault or the media, give me a freaking break. Of all the people that should be surrounded by good influences, you would think it would be those who are self proclaimed to be so close to God who would likely be more distant from this type of activity, so why then is it that we see this type of things happening in these places?

Anyone can lie blame, to say you have no control is a LAME EXCUSE. We all have within us the ability to chose right and wrong as we know it. Problem is in todays society many kids are not being taught right and wrong and too many people are getting away from God or removing God and in the process leaving behind what they themselves learned as right and wrong. The world is changing, but we still have the right to make our own choices.

[WaCoyote]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

BowJoe, Thats EXACTLY the way I see it. Very well put.

[johnf]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

I'm not saying that we don't have control over our minds, what I am saying is that if we don't actively keep ourselves on the right track then outside influences will change our perspective.

In world war I less than 10% of the soldiers fired upon the enemy when they were fired on. They practiced shooting at a square target and were good shots. After world war I they changed the target into a roughly human shaped silouete. When put into the same situation the men in WWII did not hesitate to fire. The only difference in their training was the shape of thier target.

Socialogist base the difference on the fact that hundred of rounds fired at a man shaped target made it easier to shoot at a man.

That's my point

[WaCoyote]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

Your statement is false. The shape of the target was not the reason and the improvement was still not that great in WW2. There are a whole host of contributing factors so this is not a accurate analogy. Everybody didn't start firing until Korea and vietnam, Then in vietnam they fired too much. Sorry you'll have to come up with a better one than that. I've been there done that, and read numerous studies during my stint.

[johnf]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

That was according to a military study I saw on the history chanel. I may have gotten the wrong wars, but the results are the same.

[ QUOTE ]

There are a whole host of contributing factors

[/ QUOTE ]

What are the other contributing factors?

If there are other contributing factors then they are other outside influence that made it easier for one man to kill another. Which means the more outside influence there are the more likely it is to change the perspective. I think if anything, that strengthens my argument.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

John you still fail to answer, if it is primarily outside influences that cause people to deviate from good as you are suggesting, on just why exactly it is that there are so many problems with corruption and pedophiles(including homosexuality) in the churches where the influences you are suggesting are so bad, are most likely in many cases in limited existences if not nil.

I may be wrong, but would be willing to bet that priests taking advantage of young boys has been occurring since well before the media and tv programs became an issue. There in you have homosexuality and pedophile behaviour occurring without this outside influence you are suggesting is to blame for why the world is the way it is today.

Personally I think the problems in the world today are more likely a result of people being more stressed and society in general having a completely different perspective or attitude than they did years ago, they just don't care like they used to.

[johnf]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

I never said it was primarily outside influences. All man has a sin nature. We are all naturally selfish creatures. We make decisions every day that dictate what kind of person we are going to be. When we subject ourselves to outside influence that are contrary to what we know is right they affect our perseption. We must then avoind things that are contrary to what we believe to be right and surround ourselves with things that conferm or strenghthen us.

We all battle within to keep sin out of our lives as much as we are able. Why then would we subject ourselves or our kids to something that is going to push them/us toward it?

[wtnhunt]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

[ QUOTE ]

Why then would we subject ourselves or our kids to something that is going to push them/us toward it

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems I asked you this very question in a different manner at the beginning of this post John.

I am not saying that outside influences will not change some people, some people are truly mindless, look at the peta followers, great example. I do still totally disagree with you though about this idea that they alter us all.

Only way something can change you or your views is if you let it. Furthermore, I will even go so far as to say that some people in this world are so closed minded that they will not be changed by anything.

[ QUOTE ]

I never said it was primarily outside influences.

[/ QUOTE ]

You sure?

[ QUOTE ]

Anytime you hear, see or experiece anything it changes you in some way. Take language for instance. When my daughter was 4 years old she spoke nearly perfect english. Her usage and grammer skills were better than most adults and she even correct my speech when I was wrong.

I moved to my current job when she was in the 1st grade. Our school is about 80% black and about 85% poverty. After about the first month we started the "Great Ebonics War". "I am" became "I be", We are became "We is" and so on. 3 years later we are still fighting the war with her and with ourselves. I've caugh myself telling kid "You be doin that wrong". It kills me, but I've done it.

Now back to topic. When we or our kids see things like, Ellen, Rosie, Will & Grace, "Next" (show about blind dating where gay couples are often on the show) the perception of homosexuality changes. They tell us that not only is it ok, but but that it's also natural. When these people make fun of people who don't agree with this perversion, they are telling you and your kids that not only is it natural, but that it's right.

[/ QUOTE ]

Guess I somehow misinterpreted your words here John? Thought what you were saying there was that these influences changed us all.

If YOU allow your kids to watch such shows as will and grace and do not at the very least talk with them about these shows, then it is not wonder you are looking for excuses to why they will fail.

[johnf]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

[ QUOTE ]

Only way something can change you or your views is if you let it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly what I'm saying here. The soldier in the field wants to be a good soldier, he wants to fight and live, therefore he doesn't fight the emotional changes that training gives him.

I don't want my kids to be influenced by bad tv programming, so I don't let them watch it. I don't want my daughter to use poor grammer or bad language, so I'm on her about it constantly. I don't want to have a low opinion on women so I avoid things that would lower it ect.......

[ QUOTE ]

Thought what you were saying there was that these influences changed us all.

[/ QUOTE ]

They change us if we allow them to. If we don't fight thier affects, they will change us.

If you never washed your hands what would they look like.

[WaCoyote]

Re: Yes it does affect you.

[ QUOTE ]

If YOU allow your kids to watch such shows as will and grace and do not at the very least talk with them about these shows, then it is not wonder you are looking for excuses to why they will fail.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.

Other factors? 1. Dehuminizimg the enemy. People were more likely to kill a Japanese soldier than a German due to race and the fact that they snuck us on pearl harbor. In fact more soldiers WANTED to kill Japanese Vs. Germans. 2. Soldiers were actually scared to use up ammo and run out. Now with the M16 you can physically carry much more ammo. Thats why in vietnam they shot too much and the military came up with the 3 round burst on the modern 16's. 3. WW1 was a different type of war you shot volleys at an aimed target. In WW2, Korea, Vietnam, and present you lay down suppressing fire to make the enemy stay low so you can then close in and over run. Therefor everybody shoots. Yes Yes I know we still aim but thats not the sole idea behind modern warfare. 4. Just the ammount of training is more than the average WW1 or WW2 soldier. Those were about numbers. They gave a city boy a weapon, had him shoot it, then sent him off to fight. Now everybody goes through extensive traing so you feel comfortable using a given weapon. In fact (numbers arent totally accurate) 1/2 or so of WW2 vets did any shooting. Only about 1/2 of them did the killing. They were the "good shots". Similar to fighter pilots when guns were used to bring down a plane. Do you need more??

Maybe this strengthens your arguement, maybe not but my point was not to debate a particular point you were trying to make. It was only to let you know that a sillouette target vs. a square target is not the reason people were more willing to take a life in one war over another.