Hoyt03 Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Wow jbeck thats a shame someone had to sneak on your land and take that buck you knew was there but were waiting to hunt. I imagine that kid had been spotting your place before and saw that buck and had been hunting on your place more then once. By him donating the meat it was clear he was only after the head and i do not think I would have given the head up. I see forgiving him etc, but he would have not gotten the head, I would have gave him the meat. Very tough situation and sorry you wont have the chance to hunt that deer. Hopefully you get rewarded with a bigger buck that you havent seen around yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, [ QUOTE ] the only reason I wasn't pressing charges was because the bible tells us to forgive sins against us if asked to. [/ QUOTE ] The bible also tell us that we must live by the laws of the country as long as they don't enterfere with Gods law. The fact is, this kid broke the law. You do have the right for forgiving him for yourself, but you don't have the right to forgive him on the behalf of the state you live in. God gives us forgiveness for our sin, but not absolution from the earthly consiquences of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Boy this opened a can of worms, LOL The thing we all need to remember is that he took the deer with leagal archery gear, in the shooting hours. He did tag the deer. Yes, he was hunting on land without permision, but I have advised him that regardless of if the ground is posted or not, he can't hunt without permission. The only thing I can do in this instance is get him for trespassing, so it wasn't a crime against the state in any way shape or form, it was a crime against a land owner, Me. I must admit that I agree with every thing from forgive to prosecute, I just don't know what I'm going to do yet. Thanks for all the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, If he didn't have permssion to hunt on the land that he was hunting on, then he illigaly killed an animal under the jurisdiction of the GNC. That's a crime against the state the way I see it. If he was on your land and cut down a telephone pole it may not affect you, but I imagine the phone company would be another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, You have a good point John, I'm still not sure I agree, but it is a valid aguement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missouri hunter Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, jbeck i like the way you played it. you said he was a kid, and kids do stupid things, we all have. and if he learns the lesson of forgiveness then it is better than any trespassing ticket. if you catch him again though, i may not be so patient. and i wish everyone else would not bash on his decision. it was HIS decision, his land, his deer....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Thanks MH for the support, I do have a call in to the Game Comission to see if they have any violations they want to pursue with this case, I won't protect him from that, but I'm not going to press charges on my behalf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoss Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, (it wasn't a crime against the state in any way shape or form, it was a crime against a land owner, Me.) may be im looking at this defferently.yes the kid shouldnt have been on yur land. but its up to the land owener to decide if they press charges for trespassing not the state. no you didnt have to give hem the head. as long as the kid understands what he done was illegel. it was your land as long as you feel in your heart the kid learned the right lesson i comend you. i dont know if i could have been so nice. but eighter way pressing charges on trespassing is your decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunten4life Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Alright guys why are you giving jbeck such a hard time. He did what he felt was right in his heart. It takes a big man to stand up and say I forgive you, and you all should respect his decision on this. None of us were there to see if the boy was sorry or not. He did something stupid, and had to face the landowner for it. I would rather face a conservation officer who would not think of it as a big deal at all than to face the landowner who has watched, patterned, and intended to take this buck. The man who has put all of his hard work into letting this buck grow up and getting ready for that opporunity to kill this one. Let him be, he did what he thought was right!...just my .02 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Well, if you notice the title to this thread, it IS title, "POACHED DEER", which leads ME to beleive that this deer was killed ILLEGALY. Only AFTER the first post was it determined that this deer was in fact taken "legally" but only by a trespasser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Beg to differ Gator, if you tresspass and shot a deer, you poached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Beg to differ jbeck, but YOU are the one who said it was taken legally......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, This is what I used to determine my opinion in my post above [ QUOTE ] Boy this opened a can of worms, LOL The thing we all need to remember is that he took the deer with leagal archery gear, in the shooting hours. He did tag the deer. Yes, he was hunting on land without permision, but I have advised him that regardless of if the ground is posted or not, he can't hunt without permission. The only thing I can do in this instance is get him for trespassing, so it wasn't a crime against the state in any way shape or form, it was a crime against a land owner, Me. I must admit that I agree with every thing from forgive to prosecute, I just don't know what I'm going to do yet. Thanks for all the input [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted October 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, When you trespass, you broke a law. I feel the deer was poached, I don't wish to press charges because I feel the young man was truly sorry for what he did. But make no bones about it, but for grace, he would loose the deer. Just because I'm not bringing in the law on my behalf doesn't meen I aprove of what he did, nor does it make it legal. It just meens that I'm hoping he learned his lesson, and It had better never happen again. Second time is criminal trespass that carries 1200 dollar fine. This he is aware of. What this boy did was wrong, but I don't think legal action would do a better job of teaching him a lesson. Any fine would probably be paid by his mom who really can't afford it. I am extending grace only, not condoning what happened. Please all of you understand that. I really do appreciate all the advise though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
missouri hunter Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, don't split hairs, it was taken using legals means, he did not spot light or anything, so legal means. but off of jbecks land means poached, even if not in a court of law in the court of hunters it is poached. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sskybnd Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, i think you are a good hearted man, but where you said the law wouldnt teach him anything, well going to court becouse of a pouched deer, he would have lost his weapon, weather be a gun or bow and befined 250.00 or more and lose the right to hunt the rest of the yr, that would be the lesson that boy would need, after they got done with him thats the last thing he'l ever want to do again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoyt03 Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, I think Jbeck made the right call, I would have not given the boy the antlers though. And yes I believe the deer was poached b/c he was illegally on private ground. I dont see anyway that boy can be proud of looking at those antlers, which is another reason I think Jbeck gave them to him. Imagine how crappy you would feel re-telling the story of how you killed that deer, heck he didnt even find it after the shot, let alone make or take an ethical shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, [ QUOTE ] don't split hairs, it was taken using legals means, he did not spot light or anything, so legal means. but off of jbecks land means poached, even if not in a court of law in the court of hunters it is poached. [/ QUOTE ] The phrase "By legal means" encompasses more than just the weapon in your hands. "Legal means" means everything that encompasses the act you are involved in: #1 Legal open season ? #2 legal firearm or weapon ? #3 legal permits ? #4 land-owner permission to be on land ? etc He may have had #1-#3, but by not having #4, he also poached a deer, which is an entirely separate issue to tresspassing. The deer was not taken by legal means, because he failed to fullfill all the requirments to make it legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillbilly Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, [ QUOTE ] I dont see anyway that boy can be proud of looking at those antlers, which is another reason I think Jbeck gave them to him. [/ QUOTE ] I bet you would be suprised if he came home and told his family about the buck, you really think he'll go home telling his family that he broke the law and tresspassed. Right now he's grinning from ear to ear knowing that he just got away with poaching. You really think he'll tell his buddies what kind of hunt really went on. This boy didn't learn anything. He's telling a whole different story. If I was in the same boat and didnt press charges I would have called his parents and would have told them what he did and what he needed to do for me. That would stop any story he would have dreamed up to telling his family or friends. Jbeck should have at least called his family up and let them know what he has done, but I would have pressed charges. Now back to Jbeck, I can't believe what I'm reading here. This post tells me that you have no respect for yourself, for the sport of hunting and the buck you were after. This buck was taken on your land from another hunter that had no reason to being on the land in the first place. He decided to break the law take a unethical shot and then didn't recover properly. You find the buck and wait for the shooter to come forward, you allow him to tag it, take credit and then take the rack home. I would have donated the meat, not let him. Do you really know if he donated the meat or not. Did you call the church and ask? You should have called the law on him but that is your decision not mine. Poaching is one thing, but catching a poacher red handed and letting him walk is another. You have put shame on our hunting heritage and tradition. Your just as guilty as the young man. Your letting poachers kill our heritage and tradition we keep fighting for every year to keep alive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, I am SO CONFUSED now. One minute I am told that the deer was taken legally, the next I am told it was poached, so which one is it? If it was poached, and you didn't turn the deer AND the offender in, are you any better than a poacher yourself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted October 9, 2006 Report Share Posted October 9, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, [ QUOTE ] (it wasn't a crime against the state in any way shape or form, it was a crime against a land owner, Me.) [/ QUOTE ] Technically there were two crimes commited. Here is why. The boy has admited to trespassing on land. He was forgiven and charges were not pressed. While he was comiting that crime he shot a deer off of private land without the permission of the land owner. That's a completely different crime. Game animals unless they are pets are considered (in Arkansas) as state property untill legally harvested or natural deat accurs. If the boy didn't have permission to hunt on the land the deer was taken illigally, therefor it is the states decision to prosicute, not the land owners. It's like I said before, he destroid state property on private land. The land owner, in Arkansas, has the responsibility to report that to the state officials and let them decide if they want to persue it or not. I had a friend that had the same situation on his land, but he pressed charges because they shot a deer in his front yard while they were at home. The guy would have gotten a $500 fine for shooting a deer on private property, he got a $1500 for entering private property without permission (to recover the deer), and $1000 for fireing a gun within 300 yards of a dwelling without the homeowners permssion. Sence no one actually saw him shoot the F&G dept. was forced to drop their charges, but persued the other two for the land owners. The guy lost his license for the fireing a gun next to a dwelling and was out $2500 and lost the company truck he was driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbeck Posted October 10, 2006 Author Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I dont see anyway that boy can be proud of looking at those antlers, which is another reason I think Jbeck gave them to him. [/ QUOTE ] That would stop any story he would have dreamed up to telling his family or friends. Jbeck should have at least called his family up and let them know what he has done, but I would have pressed charges. Now back to Jbeck, I can't believe what I'm reading here. This post tells me that you have no respect for yourself, for the sport of hunting and the buck you were after. This buck was taken on your land from another hunter that had no reason to being on the land in the first place. He decided to break the law take a unethical shot and then didn't recover properly. You find the buck and wait for the shooter to come forward, you allow him to tag it, take credit and then take the rack home. I would have donated the meat, not let him. Do you really know if he donated the meat or not. Did you call the church and ask? You should have called the law on him but that is your decision not mine. Poaching is one thing, but catching a poacher red handed and letting him walk is another. You have put shame on our hunting heritage and tradition. Your just as guilty as the young man. Your letting poachers kill our heritage and tradition we keep fighting for every year to keep alive. [/ QUOTE ] For you judgeful information, I CONTACTED THE PEOPLE FROM MY CHURCH AND DONATED THE MEAT, AFTER HIS MOTHER REQUESTED I FIND SOMEONE THAT CAN USE IT. I also sat down with him and had a face to face. Careful, No one better question the respect I have for the game of hunting. Showing grace is only proper if your the one asking for it. Is that what I'm hearing. I think alot of people better rethink this, I was there, I talked to this kid. I work with young people in the high school through church as well as at our church. Don't question me.... I really hope that we all don't get what we truly desirve. I will know tomorrow if the state want to press charges. If they dont' I guess I'll have there permision to decide for myself. Any one that wants this kids head on a platter, send me a check and buy into this property I've sacrificed for, and you can have him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Guy or kid sneaks onto my land, takes a buck that I was watching and trying to get legally if the chance presented itself, I could not call the DNR fast enough. If they don't learn at a young age to me its a lifetime of unethical hunting and its not fair to the game and what "fair chase" is all about. Some people tend to lose their common sense when a big buck approaches, they feel they are entitled to take it regardless of whether its legal or not!! The DNR usually drives home the point and the punishment will fit the crime! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, [ QUOTE ] Guy or kid sneaks onto my land, takes a buck that I was watching and trying to get legally if the chance presented itself, I could not call the DNR fast enough. If they don't learn at a young age to me its a lifetime of unethical hunting and its not fair to the game and what "fair chase" is all about. [/ QUOTE ] Does not even have to be a big buck. Any deer or game taken on my land and I catch them, I would have been contacting the warden. Poaching is a serious problem, and it is not too often you can catch a poacher. I hope you are right in your decision jbeck, but really would be afraid that this kid may be having a feeling of having gotten away with it, which could possibly lead to him trying to get away with more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeygirl Posted October 10, 2006 Report Share Posted October 10, 2006 Re: Poached Deer Pic, Wow, all of a sudden this has turned from a thread jbeck posted to vent and tell what happened into one giant argument. Jbeck did what he thought best - isn't that what matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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