about to give in

[wtnhunt]

About ready to give up on trying to manage our small property for better quality deer, or at least stop passing on all of the 2.5 year olds and younger bucks that I see. Have passed up so many younger bucks over the past couple years here on our property that there should be some pretty nice ones around, but it just is not happening. The area has the potential for some great deer, but there are just too many people nearby who are shooting everything they see and wounding many that later likely die, letting those "hunters" continue to get back out and kill or wound yet even more bucks.

My thoughts were in passing deer up over the years that maybe some would slip through and I might see them again the next year. Really am beginning to think that is just wishful thinking on my part.

Yesterday at work my wife found out that one of the properties behind us is hunted by one of her co-workers and that woman’s husband. They don’t lease it or anything, the landowner just lets them hunt it. She told my wife they have lost a bunch of deer back there and that they have already lost a few back there this year. Ironically the area they hunt is one of the same areas we often hear multiple shots, just about every time we hear them shoot it is 2 or 3 shots. The other property next to that one behind us is just as bad, if not worse. Have talked to the man that runs the lease several times over the years and he tells me there are only supposed to be 3 guys hunting that 300 some odd acres and they are trying to only take mature deer, but I know his brother shoots everything he sees. Have on many occasions watched young deer on the other side of the river walk to where his stand is only to hear him shoot a couple times. From what I can tell all too often he wounds deer to never find them, which really does not help either. Will never forget not a week after a phone conversation with the leaseholder and him telling me they were trying to pass up little ones, I watched a spike walk across my field one morning that I later confirmed from the leaseholder himself that his brother had shot. Turns out his brother shot at it twice only to graze the shoulder.

Then we have those who come in and hunt where they are not even supposed to be like the guy last year I caught who shot a deer from a property where he had permission to hunt, but the deer was not on the property he had permission to hunt. Really he could not prove that deer was where he said it was when he shot it. I tracked it back and it was not ever at any point where he said it had been when he shot it.

I have continued to see these 1.5 year olds and let em go. Have had a few really good shot opportunities, including one early on in the season with the bow on a little 1.5 year old 7 point with a lot of potential. Really am doubtful now that he is still around. Have been fortunate enough to tag some pretty decent bucks for this area the past 3 or 4 years, but this year I have yet to see any really good mature bucks. Have tried to help hold more around with food plots and we do have a good number of deer that hit the plots. Have seen as many as 14 deer in our one-acre grower plot this fall at one time in an afternoon, just no mature bucks. The buck doe ratios do not seem to be too out of whack either. Had several bachelor groups of 1.5 year olds visiting our camera at our minerals back before the gun seasons opened up.

Really am starting to think that maybe I should consider lowering my standards with so many people around killing all these young bucks. What would you do?

[huntinsonovagun]

Re: about to give in

forget about age. Shoot what you want to shoot. I see no glory in fork horns, would rather have a doe. Now, if it is a nice 8 pt or bigger, he is going down. You just have to set your own standards and hope a few slip through the fingers of the other guys. Some will never learn. Your passing of the little ones WILL pay off. You say you have shot 3 or 4 good ones in the past few years, I think you're doing a good job then. I think this year has been a bad year for most (I am having a GREAT year personally though). You will always have poachers and idiots who shoot everything, but it is legal (well, not the poaching part ), nothing you can do.

I say keep passing the 1 1/2 yr olds unless you really consider them a trophy. I have heard a bunch of guys say a mature doe is harder to kill than a mature buck. Good luck....hope your problem resolves itself, but be prepared for the worst.

[buckee]

Re: about to give in

Pretty tough when you have that kind of circumstances around you.

[Norm Sauceman]

Re: about to give in

I have the same problem on my dads farm wtnhunt, it really ticks me and my son off...but there is nothing we can do except scream..

[horst]

Re: about to give in

I pass up small bucks from Oct 1 to dec 3 every year, then in two weeks time 99% of the same bucks I let walk are killed by shotgun hunters.The ones that make it through the shotgun season either get into a refuge and stay there or get into someones ground that will not allow any hunting at all and will prosecute anyone caught tresspassing.

Its not nieghbors in my case, its the whole county theres not a lot you can do about it, like everyone else said.You wont be able to change your nieghbors hunting methods but have you talked to state game agency?They sometimes will send someone out who can look over your land and make suggestions on other ways to improve it and keep more deer on it year round so they dont get into your nieghbors land.Food plots are good but sometimes you can improve the cover and get some natural growing foods deer like started with a little planting and selective tree cutting and things like that.Dont pressure the deer on your property to much during the gun season and you might get some of the bucks from the nieghbors property using yours as a kind of sanctuary.Just a few things you could try, you cant change your nieghbors but making a few improvements and keeping the pressure low might save some of these bucks from wandering into the nieghbors property during gun season.

[ QUOTE ]

Really am starting to think that maybe I should consider lowering my standards with so many people around killing all these young bucks. What would you do?

[/ QUOTE ]

you might have to lower your standards a little, I dont know your deer situation.I spent several years hunting for big bucks and looking back on it my expectations were pretty unreasonable for my area.You cant get a 180 class deer out of an area thats only got 120 class deer in it.I lowered my standards a little, I dont shoot small bucks anymore but instead of looking for a wallhanger I just look for bucks that are good by this areas standards, I see more shooter bucks now and have more opportunities to shoot and still let tons of small 1 1/2 and 2 1/2 yr old deer walk every year.By worying to much about getting a monster buck I wasnt only wasting shot oppurtunies on nice bucks, I was driving myself crazy and taking the fun out of it by looking for a deer I realisticaly wasnt gonna see around here.Shoot what makes you happy, you might just have to find a happy medium.

[MUDRUNNER]

Re: about to give in

SOUNDS JUST LIKE ONE AREA I HUNT.I DO SEE SOME NICE BUCKS BOWHUNTING,BUT DURING SHOTGUN SEASON YOU NEVER KNOW WILL HAPPEN.A LOT OF SPIKES AND FORKIES GET SHOT.NOTHING I CAN DO ABOUT IT BECAUSE IN ANOTHER HUNTERS EYES THAT DEER MAY BE A TROPHY OR PUT FOOD ON THE TABLE FOR THEIR FAMILY.THERE ARE A LOT OF DEER WOUNDED FROM HUNTERS TAKING HAIL MARY'S OR MAKING UNETHICAL SHOTS.I USUALLY LOWER MY STANDARDS A LITTLE AFTER SHOTGUN SEASON AND I AM JUST AS PROUD TO TAKE A NICE EIGHT POINTER.I SAY SHOOT WHAT YOU THINK IS A NICE DEER,ESPECIALLY LATE IN THE SEASON.

[Tominator]

Re: about to give in

well William, i guess you have to be true to yourself. personally i have a Pope and Young goal every year, and i stick to it. (the property owner wants us to stick to it too, so that makes it easier ) i haven't shot a buck since 2001.

think about your goals. if you just want any ol' deer, shoot the 1.5's and does. if you want a trophy, you're going to have to wait. you can't control what other people will do, and it's only frustrating to dwell on it.

[wtnhunt]

Re: about to give in

[ QUOTE ]

You cant get a 180 class deer out of an area thats only got 120 class deer in it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree with you Chris. I am not looking for a deer that is beyond what this area is capable of producing, I know we have had a 145-150 class deer on our property in the past, and it is not really very likely I would ever see one like that around here but it is possible that I could see deer in the 120's. I have a pretty good idea of what the area here is capable of producing, it would be pretty foolish for me to expect to see a 180 class deer here, the deer here just do not get an opportunity to get old enough to grow that much. Have been trying to hold out for 3.5 year olds though and have passed quite a few decent younger bucks over the past couple years that I am sure most people around here would shoot without giving any tought to letting them walk.

[JimT]

Re: about to give in

Well, if your standards are so high that your not getting a buck at all, then I would lower them for sure. Us guys in the northeast would love to have the chance at even seeing a descent eight or even six pointer,regardless of age. Believe it or not, your lucky to have the whitetail hunting you have there. I am not trying to make it sound like it is a cake walk to get a deer for you. But it does seem to be easier for you southern guys to get your deer. I am not the only one having a bad season up here. Two of my buddys that hunt as much as I do are about to go deerless this season also. If your the only one practicing qdm in your area, then it is going to be very hard to do. I would hold out till the last few days, then shoot a descent buck regardless.

[VTbowman]

Re: about to give in

This is the exact same reason I am so estactic about our state putting limits of buck harvest and antler restrictions. With "3 inches on one side" being legal now, just about any buck seen can and WILL be shot around our state. It does not pay to pass on a legal small buck with hopes of it becoming bigger when the properties next door will blast it for sure.

Being legal there is nothing you can do other then spend a mint on high fences... LOL

Seriously, our state is at the point of ONLY having 1.5 year old deer so if you hunt thats what you get or nothing.

Personal preference, but I take my legal deer.

Next year, and possibly for the next 3 years, I am expecting not to get a buck because seeing even fork horns here are rare. I hope this new plan helps some of our bucks grow up a bit so we can be a bit more picky about what we harvest.

JMO but I do not blame you for trying to make things better and then giving up. Until its illegal to shoot young bucks, they will continue to be hammered.

Again JMO, but I am sure I am not alone here...

[horst]

Re: about to give in

Last year I passed up a buck that woulda been the biggest one Ive ever killed, he was a P&Y class 10 pointer standing broadside at 30 yrds. I was drawn back and aimed at him but never shot, there was a much bigger buck Id been hunting and he was standing 100 yrds down the field from me.If Id killed the other one Id of had a real nice buck by this areas standards.But Id of never known if I woulda got a chance at the bigger one later on, it woulda left me wondering all year if I coulda got a better buck but missed the chance because Id settled for a buck I wasnt even after at the time.

Later in the year I shot my 8 pointer, he was close to P&Y size but probably not the size of either of the other two bucks Id seen in the field that night.But this one was one of my better bucks, and I crawled up on him and killed him from ground level.Its an experience I wouldnt have traded for anything.

Guesse what Im saying is, you might have to do what I do.Dont really lower your standards, but be flexible enough to decide on a case by case basis.sometimes other factors besides a deers age or rack size can figure into a hunt and make it well worth your time to lower your standards and take a little smaller deer than you had hoped for.For me it was the hunt itself that made killing that 8 pointer one of my more memorable hunts.Having standards is a good thing but having such strict standards that it takes the fun out of hunting will burn you out fast.

[dogdoc]

Re: about to give in

I can feel your frustration. It is tough to manage for mature bucks on smaller pieces of property. On my 80 acres I have been "managing" for 3 years now I have not shot a buck on it yet. My goal was to give it 3 years to see if I could make a difference. The deer sightings are way up and last year I did have once mature buck that frequented for a short time.

William---hunting is a passion, a hobby, and suppose to be fun--so enjoy it!!!! Don't let the idea of having to shoot a 4.5 year old buck or older ruin the wonderful experience of hunting.

good luck and I'm glad your grower plot is doing well.

todd

[wtnhunt]

Re: about to give in

[ QUOTE ]

William---hunting is a passion, a hobby, and suppose to be fun--so enjoy it!!!! Don't let the idea of having to shoot a 4.5 year old buck or older ruin the wonderful experience of hunting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Believe me, I do enjoy it Todd. Just gets a bit frustrating at times.

[Stinger-Hunter]

Re: about to give in

If they are shooting like crazy then I'd imagine the older bucks are heading out or hiding out. Only thing I can think of is let your area be a santuary for a little while. This willl build the confidence of the other bucks to go to your land for safety. Maybe then the older deer will be more visible to you, rather than them.

Just a possibility...

[LifeNRA]

Re: about to give in

[ QUOTE ]

If they are shooting like crazy then I'd imagine the older bucks are heading out or hiding out. Only thing I can think of is let your area be a santuary for a little while. This willl build the confidence of the other bucks to go to your land for safety. Maybe then the older deer will be more visible to you, rather than them.

Just a possibility...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I was thinking too! We hunt private land, next to State game lands and an area that gets hunted real heavy. Once the shooting starts the deer head towards us! Since we have antler restrictions in place we are seeing more better bucks! But the heard reduction now is killing the heard to very low numbers!