carbonhunter Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 should have been gun owners for bush. It is a lose lose sitiuation, put kerry in office and we lose our guns. put bush in office and this is just the beginning The Bush administration has dropped any pretense of providing serious long-term protection for endangered salmon species in the Pacific Northwest. Last Tuesday, the administration proposed to roll back restrictions on commercial development across millions of acres in California north to the Canadian border that had been designated four years ago as "critical habitat" essential to salmon recovery. The next day, the administration ruled out demolishing four dams on the lower Snake River - even as a last resort to save the fish. Both announcements represented departures from the Clinton's administration's more robust approach to salmon recovery. Both also reflected the degree to which the administration is prepared to contort science and common sense to slide out from under its obligations under the Endangered Species Act to ensure long-term recovery of the fish instead of merely slowing their rate of decline. Earlier this year, for instance, the administration proposed to count millions of hatchery-raised fish as wild fish - a bit of mathematical casuistry that would instantly make wild populations seem healthier than they are, undercut the need to keep wild salmon on the endangered species list and give the green light to federal agencies to drop protections against logging, homebuilding and other forms of commercial development. But this was nowhere near as preposterous as its argument, in the dam ruling last week, that the dams were immutable parts of the landscape, like a mountain, and thus beyond the reach of the Endangered Species Act and "beyond the present discretion" of the government to remove them. The administration offers endless justifications for its proposals, chiefly the insupportable claim that both dam removal and habitat protection would exact an unacceptable economic price. It also promises mitigating measures, including technological fixes to help the fish over and around the dams, and more "focused" habitat protection, albeit in a much smaller area than the fish's historical range. But clearly the administration's heart isn't in it. The underlying message here is that commercial interests come first, salmon second, even if history suggests that the two can comfortably coexist. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/06/opinion/06mon4.html?ex=1103338513&ei=1&en= a8e2bd822133aef6 i also read where they will deny sage grouse protection. So what im getting at here is simple. I know how we all feel about bush and guns but how do you feel bush will treat the things we need to actually enjopy our sport and the reason many of us take part in these activities...to be out with nature. What do ya think about the conservation methods of the bush adm.?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Now CH, those steelhead and salmon swim past my house in 2 rivers. It's about time that Bush got rid of those reg's of Clintons. There have been more steelhead and salmon across those 4 dams in the last 6 years than ever before. The media does not print the amount of fish that is going over these dams anymore because it is against all the BS they have spread about the dams! I am glad that this administration is doing something other than kiss the tree-huggers behinds!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted December 8, 2004 Report Share Posted December 8, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... I said it before, what good is a gun gonna do when all the natural habitat is gone for oil wells and paper mills. Bush is more a friend to the energy industry then he ever will be to gun owners and hunters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ravin R10 man Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... slug....when you stop driving and use a corn cob for your "paperwork" maybe I'll listen to your B.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nut Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Carbon and slug.... you 2 should know by now how blind some people are. Some just are not hunters at heart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] slug....when you stop driving and use a corn cob for your "paperwork" maybe I'll listen to your B.S. [/ QUOTE ] LMBO!!!!!!!!!! Yeah one post you talk about your truck, what good is your truck when you have no ga to put in it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slugshooter Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] slug....when you stop driving and use a corn cob for your "paperwork" maybe I'll listen to your B.S. [/ QUOTE ] Not sure what you mean by corncob, but your reply was very "Christian" maybe you should rethink your B.S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Once again everyone in here did nothing but take cheap shots. what a bunch of idiots.........no one commented on the question at hand. READ DOPES dont know what i was thinking posting an enviroment question to a bunch of "hunters" anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Once again everyone in here did nothing but take cheap shots with the exception of orlanid. what a bunch of idiots.........no one commented on the question at hand. READ DOPES dont know what i was thinking posting an enviroment question to a bunch of "hunters" anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] What do ya think about the conservation methods of the bush adm.?? [/ QUOTE ] Ok, this "dope" will bite. The article falsely and slanderously states that the Bush administration has foregone science to change laws and now wildlife is in danger. Democratic administrations have been ignoring sound science for years to push their hands-off wilderness don't step on the pretty flowers agenda. They've put animal rights before human rights time and time again. There are places where protection is needed, but these people will not be happy until mother earth is restored back to the state she was in before man set foot on her. This administration is finally using some common sense and weighing all costs when making a decision. On top of that, do you honestly expect anything from the New York Times to be unbiased? Come on now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] Democratic administrations have been ignoring sound science for years to push their hands-off wilderness don't step on the pretty flowers agenda. [/ QUOTE ] And it was exactly that misguided policy that gave us the devasting wildfires out west during the late 90's and early 2000's. I believe there must be a balance between the needs of society for energy, raw materials, etc. and the needs of wildlife for total wilderness. FYI - Oil wells are all over the area where I deer hunt in west Texas and I'll put the quality of hunting there up against anywhere else in the country. And in east Texas some of the very best deer hunting is found on large tracts of land owned by timber companies. If those 2 industries are so terrible, there shouldn't be "hide nor hair" anywhere around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AaronS Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] And it was exactly that misguided policy that gave us the devasting wildfires out west during the late 90's and early 2000's. [/ QUOTE ] Yep, we can "thank" the USFS's own Smokey the Bear for a lot of that mindset also. Here's a little more info on how anti-environment the Bush administration is. You won't find this in the NY Times. Copied and pasted from North American Hunter Online: [ QUOTE ] Bush Administration Signs Bill To Protect Nevada Wildlife Habitat RENO, NV - President George W. Bush signed a bill last week to protect approximately 1,200 square miles of wildlife habitat north and east of Las Vegas, Nevada. The signing represents what some are calling the single largest designation of federally protected wilderness in Nevada history. The bill creates 14 new wilderness areas across a total of 768,000 acres. It also directs the Bureau of Land Management to auction up to 90,000 acres of federal land north of Las Vegas. [/ QUOTE ] Oh the horror. I'm sure the oil companies are somehow behind this and it's all a ruse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... FYI - Oil wells are all over the area where I deer hunt in west Texas and I'll put the quality of hunting there up against anywhere else in the country. And in east Texas some of the very best deer hunting is found on large tracts of land owned by timber companies. If those 2 industries are so terrible, there shouldn't be "hide nor hair" anywhere around. ------------------------------------------------------------------------You obviously dont know much about the differance between fish and deer then. pretty ignorent statment. We have alot of wells around here as well and some great deer hunting, i love the smell or cruid oil, and deer piss in the morning, put that with the sounds of a well thumping away. makes for a great experiance. i wonder how those deer would have faired living on an island in the Cuyahoga when it was burning. We have a ton of steelhead and salmon here in ohio, go fishing, and feed one to your pregnant wife, wait nine months and then we discuss the differance between oilwells on land and fish in water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 9, 2004 Report Share Posted December 9, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------You obviously dont know much about the differance between fish and deer then. pretty ignorent statment. We have alot of wells around here as well and some great deer hunting, i love the smell or cruid oil, and deer piss in the morning, put that with the sounds of a well thumping away. makes for a great experiance. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds and smells from the wells around here are really pretty limited. You've got to be very close to a well to experience those. And I have on occaision sat on top of an oil platform and saw plenty of deer. They certainly don't care. [ QUOTE ] i wonder how those deer would have faired living on an island in the Cuyahoga when it was burning. [/ QUOTE ] Obviously, they would have swam away and left the fire. [ QUOTE ] We have a ton of steelhead and salmon here in ohio, go fishing, and feed one to your pregnant wife, wait nine months and then we discuss the differance between oilwells on land and fish in water. [/ QUOTE ]The only consumption advisories for the Cuyahoga river is for bullheads, suckers and carp - You might eat those but I'm not interested. You may have my portion. Seriously, I assume you're talking about Lake Erie and that has been a problem for years. How much of it is the fault of oil and timber companies? I don't have that data but I suspect its minimal. Most of that pollution is residuals left over from the heavy industry that used to be so prevelant in the area (before it became the rust belt). Modern technology and regulations have reduced the pollutant output from oil and timber sites to a very low level. Now we just need to get the old/existing pollution cleaned up. Hope this helps clarify my position. I hate it when I sound "ignorant". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... BTW - carbohunter, how do you think they get the carbon for your shafts? If you're really serious about protecting the environment shouldn't you be "woodenshafthunter from trees that naturally fell over" or something like that? Sorry, couldn't resist the dig... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] ------------------------------------------------------------------------You obviously dont know much about the differance between fish and deer then. pretty ignorent statment. We have alot of wells around here as well and some great deer hunting, i love the smell or cruid oil, and deer piss in the morning, put that with the sounds of a well thumping away. makes for a great experiance. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds and smells from the wells around here are really pretty limited. You've got to be very close to a well to experience those. And I have on occaision sat on top of an oil platform and saw plenty of deer. They certainly don't care. [ QUOTE ] i wonder how those deer would have faired living on an island in the Cuyahoga when it was burning. [/ QUOTE ] Obviously, they would have swam away and left the fire. [ QUOTE ] We have a ton of steelhead and salmon here in ohio, go fishing, and feed one to your pregnant wife, wait nine months and then we discuss the differance between oilwells on land and fish in water. [/ QUOTE ]The only consumption advisories for the Cuyahoga river is for bullheads, suckers and carp - You might eat those but I'm not interested. You may have my portion. Seriously, I assume you're talking about Lake Erie and that has been a problem for years. How much of it is the fault of oil and timber companies? I don't have that data but I suspect its minimal. Most of that pollution is residuals left over from the heavy industry that used to be so prevelant in the area (before it became the rust belt). Modern technology and regulations have reduced the pollutant output from oil and timber sites to a very low level. Now we just need to get the old/existing pollution cleaned up. Hope this helps clarify my position. I hate it when I sound "ignorant". [/ QUOTE ] Mercury is caused by coal fired power plants, and is in very high levels, i dont know where you got that advisery but its prob because those are the only fish in the river, largest mercury levels are found in the grand, and ashtabula, tons of steelhead there but your advised to only eat one fish a year and none if your pregnant. Mer. levels have not dropped at all, in fact all they do is keep adding fish to the toxic levels, example TUNA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... If you're sooooooo worried about the environment, can you please explain why you're driving an automobile, heating with oil and wiping your **** with paper? Lead by example please. I hear all these sad stories about the sky falling and everyone that's complaining is not doing one thing about it. Here's a novel idea - how about the 48 million of you that voted for Kerry stop driving your cars and the environment will make leaps and bounds to toward the good. Course, you'll send the auto industry into a tailspin and unemployment will drop to say....30 plus percent but what they hey, we'll all have salmon to eat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... i didnt vote for kerry and we just got a electric hybred honda....so id say im leading a better example then some idiots we know. salmon employs a pretty large number of people as well, and one more word for ya ETHINOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParrotHead Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Ummmm....do you fill the tank with gasoline? Yes you do. Does it have tires made from rubber, steel and oil? Yes it does. Does it require you change the oil every XXX thousand miles? Yes it does. Does it omit polutants into the air? Yes it does. Yup....you're doing your part....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... fftttt........stupid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... carbonhunter, I think you are the one who is still confused. In an earlier thread you were against illegal aliens coming across the border and picking crops for the farmers. A job you said Americans are willing to do. You mentioned that the illegal aliens were taking jobs that Americans wanted. Now you say your parents bought a Japanese car, a hybrid, and that means that "You" are doing your part? I am sure the American Auto Workers didn't need your business anyway, right? All those American Auto Workers are really proud that you are "doing your part." Those American Auto Workers don't buy anything that comes from the American Farmer? I don't think you even know where you stand on any of the issues, but that doesn't keep you from voicing your ever-changing opinions. Opinions, I might add, that continue to entertain some of us. .....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OJR Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Amen to what Popgun said!!!! LOL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... [ QUOTE ] carbonhunter, I think you are the one who is still confused. In an earlier thread you were against illegal aliens coming across the border and picking crops for the farmers. A job you said Americans are willing to do. You mentioned that the illegal aliens were taking jobs that Americans wanted. Now you say your parents bought a Japanese car, a hybrid, and that means that "You" are doing your part? I am sure the American Auto Workers didn't need your business anyway, right? All those American Auto Workers are really proud that you are "doing your part." Those American Auto Workers don't buy anything that comes from the American Farmer? I don't think you even know where you stand on any of the issues, but that doesn't keep you from voicing your ever-changing opinions. Opinions, I might add, that continue to entertain some of us. .....popgun [/ QUOTE ] ******* The honda civic....and hybred are made right here in central ohio, in fact honda employs the largest number of people in them manufacturing sector in ohio. so yes i will support a foreign car maker who employs and makies there product here on US soil. Compairing Scabs (who you support or seem to buy your past posts) to Auto workers(who happen to be americans) is ignorent. But to be honest nothing you say is entertaining its disgusting, so i will keep entertaining and you can keep pimping illegal aliens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted December 10, 2004 Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Carbonhunter, you really don't know me at all. "...and names will never hurt me." .....popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted December 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2004 Re: Sportsman for bush... Im done arguing with someone who makes excuses for illegals. No hable espanoil!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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