Guest wally76 Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 I'm new to the forums, in fact I'm not quite sure how to post my own message yet, but I've been a bow hunter and Realtree boy for about 16 years. I need any help I can get from my hunting pals. Recently the Pennsylvania Game commission has over abused it's own power and "stripped" my father and me of our hunting licenses for this entire season! The game warden didnt belive we provided a correct adress (we did) and accused us of baiting deer (i was one mile away from the nearest corn). He then proceeded to simply take our licenses while speeding off down our driveway and running over our steel strand gate while ripping the trees down that the strand attaches to! This was hit and run destruction of property by a game commission employee! Several days later this same officer offered to accept 400 dollars to "make this all go away" an OBVIOUS OFFER OF BRIBERY! And if that wasnt enough even eluded to burning our cabin down! Imagine having your hunting privilages stollen, I will not be out in the woods this year enjoying the fall colors while deer hunting. I have been robbed of my quality outdoor experience with my hunting buddy and father. I ask that while your out there in the tree stand waiting for that monster to walk by you think about my situation and remember that it could also happen to you no matter which state you reside in. Please help me in any way possible. Do you also hunt in pa? can you offer any assistance in this matter (legal etc)? My father and i are in for the fight of our lives against a large organization that has a history of bullying the smaller guy, your "friendship" and support would be much appreciated-Walt ([email protected]) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Wally, look at where it has teh tabs in the different rooms. Click on post to create your own post. I notified a moderator. Maybe they can move your reply here to a new post for you. As for the writing above. Really think there are a lot of soldiers who get this same feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popgun Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Welcome to the Realtree Forums wally76. You will need to get a grasp of your emotions for a few minutes and give us a few details. First, you hijacked a thread about a different subject. Second, you really threw out a thought provoking zinger. Third, you are so new to this site that no one knows you enough to know whether or not your accusations are founded on truth. And fourth, you have disappeared. A moderator needs to move this to a new thread either in the lounge or in the deer hunting room. Questions: Have you and your father been to court yet? Do either you or your father have any prior convictions for anything illegal? Was the address provided on your license correct? Does the address on your Hunting License correspond with what is shown on your Drivers License? Since all Wildlife Officers have supervisors, have you made contact with the supervisor? Bribery and threats are very serious allegations, have you any proof? If it is yours and your Dad’s word against the officer, what do you have in your favor that would convince the Judge to take your word over the officer? Do you have a marked map, or aerial photos showing where you were hunting in relation to the baited area? Do you have any photos showing the damage to your property that the wildlife officer caused? What is this history you speak about, wherein the Pennsylvania Wildlife Commission is “bullying the smaller guy”? ….popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nutz4bucks Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Well said popgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newarcher Posted October 24, 2006 Report Share Posted October 24, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! I have no idea whether or not you are telling the truth or how all of this went down. If what you are telling me is correct, I would allow an attorney to listen in to the phone call where you ask for an explanation of 'the other day you said $400 would make all of this go away....how exactly would that work and how do I know you wouldn't come back for more later". Then let the lawyer handle it. If you can tape conversations, carry a tape recorder with you or tape the phone call on your answering machine. Besides that, I would talk to your State Senator or Representative's office and provide them with the details. They should be able to help if things are how you said they are. New Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pa_sportsman Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Walt, Did the Game Warden give you a citation [for address issue and/or hunting over bait] or simply confiscate your license? If you were cited, you will have your day in court. Assemble all of the evidence that you can - residency information and past/current addresses, written statements from witnesses, pictures of damage, map with your location and location of any bait, etc. Unfortunately, you may lose a hunting season while the legal process progresses. If you weren't issued a citation and the Game Warden simply told you about the "issues" and took your license, I suggest that you contact the PGC in Harrisburg for assistance. Explain your story and provide them with your license number. They should be able to tell you if your license was suspended pending a hearing, or if the PGC hasn't heard anything about your encounter. Since you obviously don't have your current license, refer to your doe license or harvest card. If I remember correctly, the backtag number is printed on the bottom of one or both of them. That backtag number may be able to provide some means of identification. If the PGC in Harrisburg hasn't heard of any issue with you, contact your regional Game Commission office to inquire whether the encounter was reported there. If not known there either, I would ask that the regional office investigate and inform you of the findings. If there is no record of your license being taken, discuss with the Game Commission its status as lost and your ability to obtain a replacement. If I remember correctly, replacement licenses cost $5.00. I believe that the accusation about the incorrect address warrants questioning of the PGC. Was the address provided a valid current address or previous address or simple misprint or typing/writing error? Did you intentionally misrepresent your address to hide some previous issue? Unless something changed recently, moving from one address to another within the state didn't affect a resident license or cause it to be invalid. However, I don't know that the same consideration is given for a resident who moves out of state. Regarding the baiting, I suggest that you research that issue in the hunting regulations booklet or on the PGC website. I don't remember what PA considers as hunting over bait - minimum distance from bait, line of sight, etc. If the Game Commission has a record of its officer taking your license on your property and you have documented evidence of damage, you may have some recourse at that time. Otherwise, you may have to pursue the matter in civil/small claims court. Without proof, your claims of bribery solicitation and threats against your cabin aren't more than heresay (your word against his). I wouldn't expect him to repeat those comments. I suggest that you follow up with the PGC in Harrisburg first, and your regional office if necessary. If the PGC gives you no satisfaction, you can always consult the local television station or newspaper. I think that you would find interest in your story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deer huntin k-man Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! [ QUOTE ] If you can tape conversations, carry a tape recorder with you or tape the phone call on your answering machine. [/ QUOTE ] If you choose to follow this advice be very carefull. I am a criminal justice major in college and few weeks ago we were taught that it is illegal to record any phone calls or conversations with out the other party knowing they are being recorded. If you choose record phone convo's you need to let everyone know they are being recorded. An example of this would be to say your phone is ringing. When you answer the phone you need to say, " Hello, you are being recorded." or something to that extent but make sure they clearly know that they are being recorded. The same goes for your answering machine. When the machine kicks in you could say, "Hello you have reached the JohnDoe residence. You are being recorded. Please leave a message and we will get back to you as soon as we can." The only way to record someone with out them knowing it and it being legal is to go before a judge and explain your case and ask for a warrent allowing you record without the other party knowing about it. Again be very carefull if you choose to record anything. If not you may be prossecuted just because you were trying to build your case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Well said Popgun. You said what I was going to say and then some. Welcome to the forums wally76. Looking forward to hearing more also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Popgun words are to the point, pure genius! Welcome wally76, hope these issues clear up for you. Dark cloud over you for some reason, may things get better quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wally76 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Well, first off wanted to say thanx to everyone for their advice. I didnt knowingly add a post and sabotage any forums. I am new, and simply didnt know how to post in an appropriate area. In any event The current update to the pa game comm. problem is that after repeated e-mails to state representatives and lawyers as well as the game commission they decided to return our licenses! Still no word on any charges (this just happened two weeks ago) but atleast we can legally hunt. As for answering the questions previously stated: The adress on our licenses did correspond to our legal residence, drivers licenses, voter reg, tax records etc. So there was no wrong there, we happened to speak with a slightly different slang then the officer and he didnt appreciate that. As for the "history of the PGC" one need only to type in abuse of power and the penn. game commission and find all the related links. They have a history in pa of accusations and over stepping even their own almighty power. I won't go into that here. As for the baiting (illigal in pa) the story gets better or worse depending on your view.. This officer personally placed piles of corn less then 50 ft from our land inorder to bait bear to transport to other areas, here he is accusing us of baiting and he has corn 50 ft away! I have spoken to lawyers and there is a strong case building of false accusations, personal property damage among other things.. thanx again for all your words of wisdom, may you all enjoy the hunting season.... p.s. we do have pics of the damaged property, and "proof" of his offer of bribery via cell phone conversations.. and someone prior posted that its illegal to record without prior disclosure, the game commission routinely does this! as recent as this week....Walt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unioncountyslayer Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! I smell fish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Welcome to the forums Wally! I hope next time you post it will be under happier circumstances. I suggest you keep your evidence to yourself until the dust settles and the papers are filed. I would hate to see your case destroyed/compromised because you leaked evidence to the public. Good Luck and keep us updated! Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! [ QUOTE ] Well, first off wanted to say thanx to everyone for their advice. I didnt knowingly add a post and sabotage any forums. I am new, and simply didnt know how to post in an appropriate area. In any event The current update to the pa game comm. problem is that after repeated e-mails to state representatives and lawyers as well as the game commission they decided to return our licenses! Still no word on any charges (this just happened two weeks ago) but atleast we can legally hunt. As for answering the questions previously stated: The adress on our licenses did correspond to our legal residence, drivers licenses, voter reg, tax records etc. So there was no wrong there, we happened to speak with a slightly different slang then the officer and he didnt appreciate that. As for the "history of the PGC" one need only to type in abuse of power and the penn. game commission and find all the related links. They have a history in pa of accusations and over stepping even their own almighty power. I won't go into that here. As for the baiting (illigal in pa) the story gets better or worse depending on your view.. This officer personally placed piles of corn less then 50 ft from our land inorder to bait bear to transport to other areas, here he is accusing us of baiting and he has corn 50 ft away! I have spoken to lawyers and there is a strong case building of false accusations, personal property damage among other things.. thanx again for all your words of wisdom, may you all enjoy the hunting season.... p.s. we do have pics of the damaged property, and "proof" of his offer of bribery via cell phone conversations.. and someone prior posted that its illegal to record without prior disclosure, the game commission routinely does this! as recent as this week....Walt [/ QUOTE ] So this guy accused you of hunting over bait that he put out on his property? I cant really add anything else that hasnt already been covered in the above replies. But, you can say what you want about the Game Commission, if what you say is true it should not be very hard to bring this guy down if you go through the appropriate channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newarcher Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! If it were me and you guys are truly on the up and up, I would contact your State Representative and the head of the PA Game Commission and tell them that you want a different ranger patrolling your area. I would then offer to set up regular inspections of your property to prove to them that there is nothing wrong going on. Be as transparent as you can. In the mean time, I would walk the property frequently to check for any planted corn or other violations. New Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wally76 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! i know that you all dont know me, but this story would be too much to make up! We just happened upon one "bad apple". As for "leaking evidence" I'm merely asking for advice. And yes the ranger really did place bait corn less than 50 yrds from our property boundry on a neighbors land, without notifying us of his bait. In other wards, we could have been hunting near baited land that he placed and not even knew about it. I'm unfortunately going to have to refrain from any further info as you just never know whos listening.. thanx again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOMSD5 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! 3 seasons ago i had a fed.officer go beyond his atthority and he since been transferd out of the state to a new location....some of you on here may remember the situation... but done right you will get justice...welcome to the forums wally... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turkeygirl Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Well I hope everything works out. I'm surprised a state agency like the PGC would do something so...erradic unless they had a legitimate reason. Of course now a days you get new young guys fresh out of training and they have a high ego and go on a major power trip - probably not all but some. I would suggest staying low key and don't do anything to provoke anything and if this is all true, best of luck to you. Oh, and welcome to Realtree! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Glad to see this got moved where it needed to be, and again welcome to the forums Wally. [ QUOTE ] p.s. we do have pics of the damaged property, and "proof" of his offer of bribery via cell phone conversations.. [/ QUOTE ] Hope everything works out and justice is done. Too bad there are bad apples in all sorts of places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wally76 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! thanx again everyone, an update for all interested would be that last night the PGC agreed to return our licenses, today the regional officer (the problem local agency) began to drag his feet and said "he may return the licenses friday"we have yet to be issued any citation or for that matter paperwork, and quite frankly I'm not even sure what I'm guilty of other than less than propper ammount of square orange. The young gun- ho type isnt our issue as much as the local county mounty that wants no outsiders moving into "his hood" and likes nothing about change. It's considerably deeper than what this forum/ site will allow. just wanted to give a heads up to all regarding the often abused source of power. There's not much higher than the game commission, in Pa they can enter your home without warrant and do as they please... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doughboy1956 Posted October 25, 2006 Report Share Posted October 25, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! I wish it were under happier circumstances, but welcome to the forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wally76 Posted October 26, 2006 Report Share Posted October 26, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! on a lighter note the bucks are really starting to move, i have seen 3 wapper bux in the last week around dawn while driving. Several heads chopped off road kill (this is normal in pa) As for the licenses, tomorow is supposed to be return day, we'll see, you guys seem like a great group of hunters, thanx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! Wally, I dont know your whole story apparently and thats ok.Dont take what Im about to say wrong, Im not failiar with PA game laws so I might be off base here. We have a lot of grey areas in our state game laws here, most states do.By using vauge definitions some laws are often left open to the arresting officer to decide if youve broken the law or not.Baiting laws are often in the grey area. For instance if your story happened here you would indeed be guilty of hunting near bait if one of your stands is within so many feet of a bait pile.It may not sound right but its the hunters responsibility to make sure theres nothing in that radius that could be considered bait.If the bait pile was on the nieghbors property the officer was under no obligation to tell anyone but the nieghbor that it was there.I personaly dont like this law because it leaves a lot of room for error, if you had crossed the property line to look at the area you would have been tresspassing{if you didnt have permission}, but if the nieghbor doesnt let you look you can be guilty of baiting, its a bad situation.I gueese what Im saying is you could be guilty on nothing more then a technicality and not even realize it, it happens more then you might think. If you plan to take this any further then getting your licenses back you better make positively sure that theres no way you could be considered to be hunting illegaly, its a tricky thing sometimes when the laws are vauge and theres more then one property involved.Good Luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wally76 Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! well, The good news is the licenses were returned to their rightful owners. The bad news is that the good ol boys are determined to "catch" us on any such technicality possible. They didnt much like that we made a stink about them running over our drive way gate, and they liked it even less when i notified their superior and posted an official complaint. I'm not the sit down and shut up type and i belive that wrong actions from no matter how high a power are still wrong! Stand for something or fall for anything, I intend to stand- and although i may not always win I ALWAYS FIGHT... tHE PEOPLE WHO SUSPECTED THERE was more to the story are correct, a brief rundown: we're not "from" this area although we do own land and have been hunting there for 15+ years we're still not "local boys." Number two- When you ruffel the feathers of these good ol boys they get mad, I've ruffeled alot with this situation. Three: their superiors totally sided with the offending officer. number 4: my grand pop was killed by a hit and run driver- so when this warden ran over our drive gate and ripped down trees without so much as a sorry- i was pissed. And lastly even though all my legal papers (drivers license, voters reg, tax info etc) state that property as my legal adress, this gung ho officer is determined to investigate it as though we were guilty of adress fraud. thats basically all the info that i didnt want to bombard anyone with earlier.... now i can hunt, i just have to dot my I's and cross ALL T's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Equalizer Posted October 27, 2006 Report Share Posted October 27, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! i'm glad that u got your licences back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebeilgard Posted October 28, 2006 Report Share Posted October 28, 2006 Re: hunting privelages STOLEN! Legally!! welcome to the forums. glad you got your licenses back. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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