Mosquito with a Cannon?

[wtnhunt]

but when that 200" Kansas whitetail stands up 450 yards away at last light, that .243 or 30-06 is just going to leave me broken hearted. I

Broken hearted why???

I dont claim to be a marksman, but if I am going to take a shot on a deer at 450 yards which is not likely that would ever happen, it will be a dead deer whether it is hit from a 30-06, a 308 or a 300 win mag, I dont see where there would be that much difference so long as I KNOW what my gun will do at that range. At 500 yards according to remingtons ballistic tables, a 30-06 shooting a 180 grain swift scirroco is going to be very similar in performance to a 300 win mag shooting a core lokt ultra bonded, both carrying over 1400 lbs of energy and almost identical velocities. Drop is a little more significant with a difference of 10 inches, but so long as you are accustomed to shooting those ranges with the gun you are hunting with, that should not be a problem.

You can drag the same boat to the lake with a half ton or a semi..... Both would be perfectly effective but which makes more sense?

Nice analogy there Jeramie, that is right on the money.

[Jeramie]

but when that 200" Kansas whitetail stands up 450 yards away at last light, that .243 or 30-06 is just going to leave me broken hearted. I know the Ultramags and even Mags are overkill 99% of the time and shoulders are sore after sighting in at the range, but wouldn't it all be worth it if you had the capability of capitalizing on that 1% opportunity. Just my two cents.

Wow, I missed that! For some reason my brain registered 200yds. Personally I wouldn't take a 450 yard shot on any deer. The longest ive ever even considered was 286 and I passed it up. After the deer meandered off I took a shot at a tree right next to where the deer wast standing. It hit dead money but Im still glad I didn't take that shot. If that deer gets a cold chill it could throw the shot off. I would NEVER take that long of a shot, unless I was shooting a patriot missile.

[257bob]

With today's cartridges, that you call overkill, in a well built rifle, 450 yards is a REALISTIC shot. That is using the the method you preach.

"Years of practice, preperation, and a steady hand come together in making that perfect shot."

If a person doesn't put in the time to develop a load and learn how it reacts in different situations through practice he/she doesn't have any business shooting past 250 yards. I on the other hand know the capabilities of my firearms.

I think the boat analogy works only if we were comparing 30-06 to a 50bmg, but we are comparing .243s to 30-06 to 300 Win mag to 300 ultra mag. When the differences in recoil with a 30-06 and a 300 mag are so minimal it would be more appropriate to say.

You can drag the same boat with a half ton or a 3/4 ton diesel, both would be perfectly effective which one makes more sense?

All my statements are in good fun. I do not intend to get under anyone's skin, but I just see it another way.

[Jeramie]

You're not under my skin...

I load my own and will target shoot well over 300yds. However, in a hunting situation its different. If a buck stands up at 450 yards you may have a clear shot but even at todays velocities, if that buck takes a step the instant you pull the trigger it could be a mess.

Granted a conditioned shooter and the right rifle (even factory, unaltered rifles such as Savage, Tikka, or the Remington 700) have the ability to make that shot but there simply to many factors such as the animals will. A 450 yard shot is very possible and even plausible on a stationary target but not knowing the 100% condition of that animal makes a shot that distance very, very risky.

[OJR]

Bad Judgement!

I normally don't shoot my deer over 100 yards (I also like to sneak in as close as I can and be a "HUNTER"), but when that 200" Kansas whitetail stands up 450 yards away at last light, that .243 or 30-06 is just going to leave me broken hearted. I know the Ultramags and even Mags are overkill 99% of the time and shoulders are sore after sighting in at the range, but wouldn't it all be worth it if you had the capability of capitalizing on that 1% opportunity. Just my two cents.

This statement just goes against my definition of a "Hunter"!

With today's ammo, calibers and guns I would NOT take a shot at 450 yards! That is just taking too many chances! Wounding an animal is one and by the time you get across the landscape, who knows where that poor critter might be!

I have hunted for over 55 years and learned a long time ago that the MAXIMUM that I would shoot at any animal is 300 yards! It doesn't make any difference how bit the animal is or how small! No more than 300 yards when out in the wild and hunting!

If I would see a HUGE buck or bull elk that is over 300 yards, I would do my best to get closer and if I couldn't do that, then I would let it go and remember just how wonderful it was to see such a monster!

That is how I have hunted and have never regretted it!

[texastrophies]

Those who can, DO. Those who can't, come up with excuses :D:D

[Strut10]

Personally I wouldn't take a 450 yard shot on any deer.[/b]

Probably not me either. But I know full well I could do it should I choose. I've shot groundhogs waaaaay farther than that. A stationary, deer-sized animal would be a chip shot.

The longest I've ever even considered was 286 and I passed it up. After the deer meandered off I took a shot at a tree right next to where the deer wast standing. It hit dead money but Im still glad I didn't take that shot. If that deer gets a cold chill it could throw the shot off. I would NEVER take that long of a shot, unless I was shooting a patriot missile.

........or an OTPG gun. The last deer I shot with a gun was at 276 yards. The 140 gr. bullet (still carrying 3000 ft/lbs of energy) hit her on the exact hair I was aiming for, just like we had practiced. No fuss......no muss..........no cold chill. Fact of the matter is, that rifle is capeable of the same results twice that far. Probably will never do it. But could.

[wtnhunt]

Think the otpg guys might want this other thread in here to slip away without much notice http://www.realtree.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61288

Think this video was shot at an otpg recruiting drive:eek:.

Far as the comments on energies, how much more do the medium size bore rifles carry at 500 yards? I mean a 375 h and h and a 375 ultra mag are still not carrying that much more than a .30-06, and 1400-1500 ft lbs of energy is still going to kill a deer just as dead whether it is from the non magnum .30-06 or from the medium bore magnum, which is not going to make a difference to the dead deer.

If the argument that a magnum kills a deer deader and is bigger better faster without the added recoil as Bob is saying here with comparing the 300 to the .30-06 I kind of fail to see any advantage other than a slightly flatter shooting cartridge, which is likely not going to matter to the dead deer granted the shooter is capable of making the shot with either, knowing their holdover.

[Jeramie]

Probably not me either. But I know full well I could do it should I choose. I've shot groundhogs waaaaay farther than that. A stationary, deer-sized animal would be a chip shot.

I have no doubt there are a lot of shooters out there that can do it. I would even that shot on a 100% stationary target but on a whitetail.. no thanks.

Just a bit to far to poke. If that deer takes a step Paunch shot. To many variables other than the gun and shooter.

........or an OTPG gun. The last deer I shot with a gun was at 276 yards. The 140 gr. bullet (still carrying 3000 ft/lbs of energy) hit her on the exact hair I was aiming for, just like we had practiced. No fuss......no muss..........no cold chill. Fact of the matter is, that rifle is capeable of the same results twice that far. Probably will never do it. But could.

I know I could have drilled that doe over 280yds but it didnt feel right. My later shot confirmed it. I knew I could make the shot but again there is that variable "X" that you can NEVER consider.

[Strut10]

Far as the comments on energies, how much more do the medium size bore rifles carry at 500 yards?

Between 30% and 40%.........depending upon which .375 you choose. The 250 gr. load I am using in my .375 Wby. retains virtually the same energy at 300 yards as the 30-06 generates at the muzzle with a 180 gr. (and the .375 Wby. is flatter shooting to 500 yds. than the '06). That being said........there's a BIG difference between them. But it's not a fair comparison at all. Apples to oranges. Deer rounds should be compared to deer rounds, etc.