Sunday Hunting

[drkillemquick]

Re: Sunday Hunting

Thank you to everybody who posted. While I still will choose to not hunt on Sunday hearing all your views and opinions has at least given me the understanding of those of you who do, and it will give me the ammo I need to defend it to the non hunting public. Thanks to everybody for not getting mad at me for asking, that's what I love about this place!

[wtnhunt]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Personally I think everyone should be in Church but thats personally.

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You are entitled your opinion to which I would have to disagree. Who says being in the woods with your child can not be church to some Jeramie. I personally have no need for any building or another MAN to give me direction. I can read and decipher for myself and ask God for guidance, and can carry on conversations about my faith with people outside a building and still be in my own sense of church. Just don't understand why so many people think we need an interpreter or middle man(preacher/pastor) for God to love us and listen to us and provide us guidance or direction.

Imposing your thoughts on another because of what you feel is wrong and is well really quite simply if you really think about somewhat hypocritical. I said it before and will say it again, forcing people to not be allowed to hunt Sunday will in NO WAY make some of those people turn to faith, and some people who are in church buildings are there every time the doors are open and are truly NOT people of faith.

[drkillemquick]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Personally I think everyone should be in Church but thats personally.

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You are entitled your opinion to which I would have to disagree. Who says being in the woods with your child can not be church to some Jeramie. I personally have no need for any building or another MAN to give me direction. I can read and decipher for myself and ask God for guidance, and can carry on conversations about my faith with people outside a building and still be in my own sense of church. Just don't understand why so many people think we need an interpreter or middle man(preacher/pastor) for God to love us and listen to us and provide us guidance or direction.

Imposing your thoughts on another because of what you feel is wrong and is well really quite simply if you really think about somewhat hypocritical. I said it before and will say it again, forcing people to not be allowed to hunt Sunday will in NO WAY make some of those people turn to faith, and some people who are in church buildings are there every time the doors are open and are truly NOT people of faith.

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I can understand your opinion! But I agree with Jeramie that everyone should go to church. Can you worship god in the outdoors. Absolutely. God is everywhere! I also believe that I don't know everything, and that only in a good church setting where christians come together can you grow as a christian! Just like this forum for hunting, at church I learn something almost every Sunday that makes me a better christian! I constantly have questions, which need answering, and some I am still looking for answers for.

As for not allowing people to hunt Sunday, I agree, if they are not christians, just because they don't hunt on Sunday, it doesn't mean they are going to be in church either! I started this post because I wanted to hear other opinions and I am glad I did. I think Jeramie and I are the same in that I wish everybody would come to church on Sunday, but we can't hold a gun to your head either! It's peoples choices, and I can understand that now with the Sunday hunting issue. It is everybodys choice! Just because I make that choice doesn't mean I have to force that on you.

As for non christians sitting in the church pews every Sunday. I beleive they are there as well. But at least they are there, and hopefully they will find christ! They have better odds of becoming a christian sitting in a pew than in a tree stand!

[wtnhunt]

Re: Sunday Hunting

Don't take this wrong, some people really do need to be in a building for them to feel their souls are in the right place, I am just not one of those people, and am not totally convinced that many of those people are there for anything more than an acting session to which they are sadly only fooling themselves and maybe some naive people around them.

One question for you and think about it before you answer and maybe even talk with your pastor/preacher, just because a man is in church does this mean he will be saved? If a man of faith is not in a building called a "church" does this mean he is condemned and will not able to make it to heaven?

Your heart and mind can and will be in the right place only when YOU decide to give your life to God and chose to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Being in a building called a church is totally irrelevant to the state of mind of many people.

Furthermore being a true Christian has nothing to do with any organized Religion or building you refer to as a church, but instead has everything to do with ones faith.

[drkillemquick]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Don't take this wrong, some people really do need to be in a building for them to feel their souls are in the right place, I am just not one of those people, and am not totally convinced that many of those people are there for anything more than an acting session to which they are sadly only fooling themselves and maybe some naive people around them.

One question for you and think about it before you answer and maybe even talk with your pastor/preacher, just because a man is in church does this mean he will be saved? If a man of faith is not in a building called a "church" does this mean he is condemned and will not able to make it to heaven?

Your heart and mind can and will be in the right place only when YOU decide to give your life to God and chose to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Being in a building called a church is totally irrelevant to the state of mind of many people.

Furthermore being a true Christian has nothing to do with any organized Religion or building you refer to as a church, but instead has everything to do with ones faith.

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Being in a church alone will not save you! I probably didn't become a true christain until I was in my twenties, yet I spent every Sunday in church, durring my youth. I am just not sure I would have found my way without it. I was married to a non christain for a few years and my faith suffered terribly. Now that I have a new girlfriend who is also a christian, I find myself getting stronger in my faith almost daily(believe me I have along ways to go).

Again you are right you can be a christain and not go to church, and you can go to church and not be a christain.

However I find, not going to church, it is hard to grow as a christian, and hard to have me being a christian be relevant!

[johnf]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Don't take this wrong, some people really do need to be in a building for them to feel their souls are in the right place, I am just not one of those people, and am not totally convinced that many of those people are there for anything more than an acting session to which they are sadly only fooling themselves and maybe some naive people around them.

One question for you and think about it before you answer and maybe even talk with your pastor/preacher, just because a man is in church does this mean he will be saved? If a man of faith is not in a building called a "church" does this mean he is condemned and will not able to make it to heaven?

Your heart and mind can and will be in the right place only when YOU decide to give your life to God and chose to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Being in a building called a church is totally irrelevant to the state of mind of many people.

Furthermore being a true Christian has nothing to do with any organized Religion or building you refer to as a church, but instead has everything to do with ones faith.

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I agree with 100% of what you said there, and I'll go a step further. I can't remember where it is right now but there is a place in the bible that says "Wherever 2 or more are gathered in My name....." that is no less church then sitting listening to the preacher. I've sat with my daughter fishing and talked about Christ's life, bible stories and specific bible verses. We were in church.

But........you knew that was coming didn't you.

The bible also talks about the paster being like a shepherd among sheep. We should look to them for guidence and better understanding of the word of God. We should not follow them in blind faith, but use them for direction. You can't do that if you're in the woods.

The Holy Spirit has convicted me every time I've been in the woods on Sunday (when skipping church) and I've never seen a single deer. The only time I didn't feel convicted is when church had been canceled.

If you feel convicted, you shouldn't be out there.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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The bible also talks about the paster being like a shepherd among sheep. We should look to them for guidence and better understanding of the word of God. We should not follow them in blind faith, but use them for direction.

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Unfortunately on that note right there John, some people put too much faith in MAN, and sometimes that man they are putting faith in might not be leading them down the correct path.

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Wherever 2 or more are gathered in My name....." that is no less church then sitting listening to the preacher. I've sat with my daughter fishing and talked about Christ's life, bible stories and specific bible verses. We were in church

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You and me both John. Every time I take my oldest daughter deer hunting we close our eyes and say a prayer when we first get in the stand.

[Jeramie]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Don't take this wrong, some people really do need to be in a building for them to feel their souls are in the right place, I am just not one of those people, and am not totally convinced that many of those people are there for anything more than an acting session to which they are sadly only fooling themselves and maybe some naive people around them.

One question for you and think about it before you answer and maybe even talk with your pastor/preacher, just because a man is in church does this mean he will be saved? If a man of faith is not in a building called a "church" does this mean he is condemned and will not able to make it to heaven?

Your heart and mind can and will be in the right place only when YOU decide to give your life to God and chose to accept Jesus Christ as your saviour. Being in a building called a church is totally irrelevant to the state of mind of many people.

Furthermore being a true Christian has nothing to do with any organized Religion or building you refer to as a church, but instead has everything to do with ones faith.

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I agree with 100% of what you said there, and I'll go a step further. I can't remember where it is right now but there is a place in the bible that says "Wherever 2 or more are gathered in My name....." that is no less church then sitting listening to the preacher. I've sat with my daughter fishing and talked about Christ's life, bible stories and specific bible verses. We were in church.

But........you knew that was coming didn't you.

The bible also talks about the paster being like a shepherd among sheep. We should look to them for guidence and better understanding of the word of God. We should not follow them in blind faith, but use them for direction. You can't do that if you're in the woods.

The Holy Spirit has convicted me every time I've been in the woods on Sunday (when skipping church) and I've never seen a single deer. The only time I didn't feel convicted is when church had been canceled.

If you feel convicted, you shouldn't be out there.

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Here you go John.

Matthew 18:20 - "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them."

Take a look at this entry from Webster’s

Main Entry: 1church

Pronunciation: 'ch&rch

Function: noun

Etymology: Middle English chirche, from Old English cirice, ultimately from Late Greek kyriakon, from Greek, neuter of kyriakos of the lord, from kyrios lord, master; akin to Sanskrit sura hero, warrior

1 : a building for public and especially Christian worship

2 : the clergy or officialdom of a religious body

3 often capitalized : a body or organization of religious believers: as a : the whole body of Christians b : DENOMINATION <the Presbyterian church> c : CONGREGATION

4 : a public divine worship <goes to church every Sunday>

5 : the clerical profession <considered the church as a possible career>

Even Webster’s knows that a “church” is different then a “Church.”

Now for a few scriptures….

** (Deut. 31:12-13): "Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law: And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it".

** Hebrews 10:25: "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

Romans 10:17: "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

Here is my outlook on it. The building is just a building. The Church is actually the God dedicated, Christ following members that house the building. As Christians we start out on Milk (as Babes in Christ). Through study, practice, faith, and a close walk we graduate to meat. Assembling together was not only ordered by God, it’s a way to avoid and overcome the things of this world.

Think for 10-seconds about the things you’ve encountered today alone that could Cause you to sway in your walk to be like Christ. Granted in most cases it’s a small thing but you’re dealing with a barrage of that on a daily basis. Church is the counterpart to dealing with sin. It’s a chance to get Uplifted as a Christian and fellowship with people of like faith. The best symbolism would probably be taking a Warm shower after working and sweating all day. That shower is so refreshing.

Why do people go to Football games? It’s more interactive and you take home so much more than simply sitting at home watching it on ESPN. Church is no different. Granted you can sit at home and read your Bible but sitting in a room listening to a Spirit filled preacher delivering a message led by God will have far more impact and appreciation in your life.

Church is a support group for believers. People think that makes you weak but they are wrong. The Bible speaks of demons and says that a believer can put 1,000 to flight yet two believers can put 10,000 to flight. There is nothing weak about that. It’s because of the verse above (about where two or three are gathered).

The Bible also talks of teaching. There are many different levels at a Church. You’ll have people that are farther in their walk with Christ than you are and it seems you may never get there (such as Billy Graham) and in that same context, you’ll be farther then others. The Bible also commands us to teach. By assembling at a Church you not only encourage others but have the ability to offer your testimony and teach. If you’re living and breathing you can look back at events that you thought you couldn’t make it through. Now you’re sitting here today and a believer knows how you made it through. When we assemble we can encourage one another. Someone else there may very well need to hear that you’ve been through the same thing and are still strong. ). Even the Disciples gathered in the upper room after Christ’s execution. They didn’t understand a lot of what was happening. All the knew is that God incarnate had been killed for his Love. Even though they didn’t quite understand the Bible says He sent a comforter and they were all filled (Holy Spirit). There is a lot to be said for Assembling.

Just before Christianity opened a direct contact with God the father people had to have Priest go into the temple for them. God opened the door for everyone when Christ died. The Veil tore from top to Bottom to show that God loved us all enough that he would give his only begotten son, that who so ever believed in him should not parish but have ever lasting life. We no longer have to have a priest make intersession for us. We can simply Come boldly unto the throne of Grace. God has endowed us with so much.

Prayer is also the greatest weapon we as Christian poses. When you are part of a Church you have people of like faith that will cry with you, laugh with you, and raise you up when needed. Safety in numbers is an understatement. Being surrounded by Christians that intercede your needs to the Father is a powerful tool!

There are so many reasons I cant even begin to scratch the surface. In the end it boils down to this with me. There are a lot of denominations that believe once you are saved you are always saved. I changed denominations and that simply doesn’t fly with me any longer. At one time that was something I chose to believe because I simply wanted to live differently every day. Sunday I was a Christian and Monday I lived like He11. Today I understand that Eternal Salvation is so much more important than my wants. The things we were promised and have already been given are so worth my spending Sunday and Wednesday in Church. I get load of encouragement, have a family I can depend on (the Church), and have learned scriptures and lessons that have carried me over some hard times.

The closest I’ve ever felt to Christ was when I dedicated myself to him in every way possible from reading my Bible everyday, to Bible Study, to three services a week, to even tuning in to preaching on the radio. Does this have to be an all or nothing thing? I honestly don’t know but I’ve never felt Joy like the Joy of the Lord I carried when I made that commitment. If nothing else 1st Corinthians 2:9 says enough for me,

“But it is written, eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither hath entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.”

“Neither hath entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.” With all the beauty and Riches we have on this Earth, knowing that what awaits me far surpasses that, knowing that man slapped God in the face and he not only forgave us (as a whole) but He has cared for us and carried us all our days and has built an eternity that is unfathomable…… that is enough for me to Love my God and spend a few days a week in His house.

Btw, sorry about the Length. When I get to telling off on God I get excited.

[Jeramie]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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The bible also talks about the paster being like a shepherd among sheep. We should look to them for guidence and better understanding of the word of God. We should not follow them in blind faith, but use them for direction.

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Unfortunately on that note right there John, some people put too much faith in MAN, and sometimes that man they are putting faith in might not be leading them down the correct path.

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Thats very true and that person will have a lot of answering to do on Judgment day.

On that note, thats why its so important to know the Bible and have firm belief. Find a church in like faith and you're all set. Also, there is NOTHING wrong with questions a Pastor. If something clicks in a sermon, look it up and see what you get out of it.

Plus, a Church is far more than a pastor. There are classes, studies, etc. Taking part in them is very important. A lot of what you learn will help you to discern if something isn't truthful. If you find a good God filled Church, that will never be an issue.

[Jeramie]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Imposing your thoughts on another because of what you feel is wrong and is well really quite simply if you really think about somewhat hypocritical. I said it before and will say it again, forcing people to not be allowed to hunt Sunday will in NO WAY make some of those people turn to faith, and some people who are in church buildings are there every time the doors are open and are truly NOT people of faith.

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Whoa! Read the rest of that one! I said personally followed by.....

"In reality they shouldnt be able to govern that. (which they dont in Oklahoma). "

Id Love to see everyone in Church every time the doors open (thats where the personally came in) but I didnt push that off on anyone!

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Don't take this wrong, some people really do need to be in a building for them to feel their souls are in the right place, I am just not one of those people, and am not totally convinced that many of those people are there for anything more than an acting session to which they are sadly only fooling themselves and maybe some naive people around them.

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Btw, you've been to the wrong Church. A true Spirit filled Church leaves nothing to the imagination. People get touched in a very big way. It has nothing to do with pity or fooling anyone.

Thats kind of like comparing the City hunter that only hunts Rifle to kill and the Guy that dedicates himself in every aspect. There be a whole lot more to it then just sitting on a bench come Sunday.

[SUGARKAHNE]

Re: Sunday Hunting

"There are a lot of denominations that believe once you are saved you are always saved. I changed denominations and that simply doesn’t fly with me any longer. At one time that was something I chose to believe because I simply wanted to live differently every day. Sunday I was a Christian and Monday I lived like He11. Today I understand that Eternal Salvation is so much more important than my wants."

I believe that once-saved, always saved. Salvation is eternal; you cannot gain it by works neither can you lose it by works. I see what you're saying about how people claim to be Christians on Sunday but live like a heathen on Monday, but actually if you do that you're not a Christian at all, just a hypocrite. And some people really are saved but they are backslidden if they act like that. It doesn't mean you've lost your salvation, it means that you're out of the will of God and you can't have His blessing on your life. But if you truly mean it when you give your heart to God then nothing you do, no mistake you make can make you lose your salvation.

[markyj987]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Just don't understand why so many people think we need an interpreter or middle man(preacher/pastor) for God to love us and listen to us and provide us guidance or direction.

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William, I agree with you completely. I'm not theological expert, but isn't that premise the foundation of Protestantism?

Going to church edifies my faith--but it doesn't define my faith.

[preacherman]

Re: Sunday Hunting

I guess that it is time for me to chime in.........because you guys are about to cook my grits! Yes, I am a little upset and offended by all the statements about the "middle man" and the "pastor" being thrown around here like a rag doll.

I think if you go back and read all of the posts that have been said concerning church and hunting on Sunday.........everyone who mentioned in favor of church, mentioned being in favor of church; but not the preacher. We get the bad rap for everything; when truthfully, NOT ALL OF US ARE BAD PEOPLE! For those of you who are saying this, I am sure that there are bad people in your occupations as well.....but we don't go around saying that you are a bad employee because of what some other idiot did at your place of employment! So, be careful who you judge.......because truth be known........if we are going to read every book from cover to cover, we might find some tainted pages in all.

Do, I believe that hunting should be legal on Sunday? Yes I do! Would I hunt on Sunday if I could, YES! I would just choose to do so in a manner where I could get back to church. What is wrong with that? That is just as much my right as a red blooded American as it is yours to go hunting all day and stay in the woods.

I love the outdoors..........there are many days when I use the outdoors as a get away to commune with my Maker about my relationship with Him. And if I choose to do that for 5 days and spend one day as a day of rest to spend it with Him and His children in His house; then that is my right as a free American. And lastly, if you want my opinion on it...........the one who said "imposing your thoughts on another because of what you feel is wrong is somewhat hypocritial" is absurd! That is the most shallow and unthought of statement that I have ever heard in my life. And the reason that I say that..........is becuase if you will stop and look at what you have been doing all throughout this thread........you did nothing by it; but call your ownself a hypocrite!

[Jeramie]

Re: Sunday Hunting

Scott, you are absolutely right. That was thrown around a lot. For years I’ve seen first hand what is required of a preacher/ pastor. It is not an easy job. People complain, wine, and expect so much of a Pastor. Also a pastor should NEVER be considered a middle man. That requirement died on Calvary. Through Jesus we have been adopted into the kingdom of Heaven and the right to Communicate directly with God. We do not need another soul to get us there. The Bible speaks of false profits, God will deal with them. The Bible also says, “Work out your own Salvation with Fear and Trembling before the Lord.” That means no one can save the person next to them. Its up to you to get to Heaven. However, a Pastor’s job is to lead us through our walk of faith, both by teaching and example. That walk is often called “The straight and narrow.” A pastors job (in fact a Church’s job) is to keep us on that path and looking at those pearly gates in the distance. It has been that way, with the men and women of God, all through the Bible.

There were several contexts where people have stated “Middle man” and put a bad label on the leaders of a Church. I’m not sure whether that was due to bad past experiences with Churches or whether some are looking to convince themselves that Churches and Pastors are bad so they can avoid them all together and dismiss conviction. As you’ve stated, that label is demeaning to those who truly follow God, Pastor or not. Those statements lump in my Pastor and that man wouldn’t waver for Love nor money. In fact that is broad enough of a statement that it lumps in all of God’s chosen leaders such as Abraham, Moses and Aaron, Joshua, Billy Graham, Adrian Rogers, Jessie Duplantis, Joyce Meyers, etc.

The leaders of a Church are there as a tool for our learning and growth. They should never be confused as a rooker or scam artist. Are there those that take advantage of Faith and God’s works? Oh yeah, just like there are those that take advantage of a Natural Disaster. That doesn’t mean there aren’t those that are in this for the right reason. Again, find a good Church where a Christ-lead life is the most important factor to the congregation. Find a Church that follows the Holy Spirit without hesitation. Find a Church where the Joy of the Lord is evident and Church will take on a whole new meaning. In the mean time Let up on the chosen of God. They have enough pressure in their lives, I guarantee it.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Sunday Hunting

Sorry preacherman, don't think I ever said anything like all preachers are crooks and criminals preying on weak, I simply stated my opinion that to some people they utilize a preacher as a middle man, more so catholics than most other religions. Some truly are genuine, but you cannot deny that there are those out there who are misleading poor lost souls.

I never said all, or made any negative comments directed towards preachers other than saying that they were a middle man or interpreter for some to which I would find it hard for you to argue that some people in congregations do in fact feel that way. Furthermore, some people in some churches really believe that if they are in good with the church that they can get into heaven. That is such a sad situation for those people.

We strongly felt our pentecostal preacher who seemed more like a baptist to me was truly genuine. He really let us down, it was all about money and when the money ran out he split and headed to Memphis to move on to bigger and better things.

One thing in common with EVERY church I have been to as an adult is that you have your hypocrites ,your actors, and then you have your truly genuine people. Unfortunately in my opinion, I could do without the association with those who are in church every time the door is open, but then would screw your wife, or poach a deer behind your house or steal from you first chance they get. My experience in most churches with congregations of any size is that they are full of these types. Again, those people might be fooling themselves and some people around them, but they in church on a false premise and they can continue to be there every time the doors are open paying their tithes and still not have their hearts and minds in the right place.

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Btw, you've been to the wrong Church. A true Spirit filled Church leaves nothing to the imagination. People get touched in a very big way. It has nothing to do with pity or fooling anyone.

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Sorry Jeramie, but I have been to several Churches of several denominations. I was raised Lutheran and was forced to go to catechism classes and was forced to go to church every Sunday, while my parents were not great examples and did not always go themselves. Later on we switched to baptist churches. I have since belonged to Baptist churches and been to a few others around here, none of which seemed to me to be all that different.

As for feeling the spirit move Jeramie, I have felt the spirit and believe me with what I have been faced with in my life I do have faith and I know where my heart is leading me is in the right direction.

[drkillemquick]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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I think if you go back and read all of the posts that have been said concerning church and hunting on Sunday.........everyone who mentioned in favor of church, mentioned being in favor of church; but not the preacher.

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I didn't mean to offend my pastor or yourself when I only referred to "church". For me MY church family is everyone who comes together on Sunday, the pastor and every member of the congregation. If I have insulted you I appologize!

[wtnhunt]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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the one who said "imposing your thoughts on another because of what you feel is wrong is somewhat hypocritial" is absurd! That is the most shallow and unthought of statement that I have ever heard in my life. And the reason that I say that..........is becuase if you will stop and look at what you have been doing all throughout this thread........you did nothing by it; but call your ownself a hypocrite!

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I made that statement, never realized I was absurd .

Think you maybe are not fully understanding what I am getting at and reading into this something that simply is not there.

Bottom line is my point is this: take away Sunday hunting, will this make people go to church, I doubt it. Of the people that did turn to church if they were not allowed to hunt on Sundays, would this likely change what they really feel, maybe possibly for some, but kind of doubt that too.

If you force someone to go to church by saying I think everyone should be at church every time the door is open which is what was said. Is this not kind of forceful? Not everyone believes the same, and suggesting that everyone should be there every time the doors are open in my opinion is suggestive to be very much so imposing the ideas that church is in some way or form required. Opinions are different, mine obviously are not the same as yours or as Jeramie's, but does that make me a hypocrite? For you calling me one, does that really make you any better?

[Jeramie]

Re: Sunday Hunting

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Sorry preacherman, don't think I ever said anything like all preachers are crooks and criminals preying on weak, I simply stated my opinion that to some people they utilize a preacher as a middle man, more so catholics than most other religions. Some truly are genuine, but you cannot deny that there are those out there who are misleading poor lost souls.

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Some people need to use the Preacher as an example. That could easily be construed as a middle man. Someone who was just saved needs that experience to lean on. They will truly be led by the Preacher. Also people that are weak in a of areas lean on the Preacher too. Again, that would easily be construed as a middle man but the fact is they are walking under His/ Her testimony and learning from where they have been.

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I never said all, or made any negative comments directed towards preachers other than saying that they were a middle man or interpreter for some to which I would find it hard for you to argue that some people in congregations do in fact feel that way. Furthermore, some people in some churches really believe that if they are in good with the church that they can get into heaven. That is such a sad situation for those people.

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That is simply a Church that isn’t following the example of Christianity. Again, False profits will be dealt with. Simply move on to another Church who's religious convictions you agree with.

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We strongly felt our pentecostal preacher who seemed more like a baptist to me was truly genuine. He really let us down, it was all about money and when the money ran out he split and headed to Memphis to move on to bigger and better things.

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That hitting you as hard as it did shows that people put a Pastor on a pedestal. While they are leaders of a Church at the end of the day they are flesh and blood. Was he wrong to do so, yes. Should that keep anyone out of Church, No. "Work out your own Salvation with Fear and Trembling Before the Lord." While as a person it may have impacted you it shouldn’t be a stumbling block in walking in a full Christian relationship. Love him as Christ would and Pray for the man.

We all have a purpose for our creation, every single one of us or we wouldn’t be here. Each is just as important. Some sing, some write, some minister in other ways and yes some pastor.

The job we have is just as important so we should be striving just as hard as you would expect a pastor too. A life of good works shines but sadly it only takes one stumble in that walk and people will remember it forever.

[ QUOTE ]

One thing in common with EVERY church I have been to as an adult is that you have your hypocrites ,your actors, and then you have your truly genuine people. Unfortunately in my opinion, I could do without the association with those who are in church every time the door is open, but then would screw your wife, or poach a deer behind your house or steal from you first chance they get. My experience in most churches with congregations of any size is that they are full of these types. Again, those people might be fooling themselves and some people around them, but they in church on a false premise and they can continue to be there every time the doors are open paying their tithes and still not have their hearts and minds in the right place.

[/ QUOTE ]

And Jesus still died on the cross for those people just like he died for you. Those people shouldn’t be shunned or looked down on. That doesn’t mean you need to go to their house and eat with them on Sundays but keep in mind the story of Zacius. Jesus went to a publicans house because that’s where the sinner was. Think of Saul. He was a Christian killer! God had forgave him too. He was far worse then those that are sitting in those congregations. Yet God turned him around instead of shunning him. Had he not done this we wouldn’t have the wonderful Ministry of Paul.

These people are being drawn into Church for a reason. They are being convicted. The could have just as easily stayed in bed Sunday morning. They need lifted up in prayer and taught by example. Shunning them and saying you don’t want to associate with them is not a good example.

Mathew Chapter 5:

43. Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45. That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

[ QUOTE ]

As for feeling the spirit move Jeramie, I have felt the spirit and believe me with what I have been faced with in my life I do have faith and I know where my heart is leading me is in the right direction.

[/ QUOTE ]

That’s great! I never said I doubted you. Simply encouraging you!

The fact is you were created for a reason. God didn’t put us here for our own purposes. That time waits in the future when I turn the key to the Mansion, my reward. Then ill praise God and walk streets of gold with Christ in a land of Perfection.

But for now there is a lot of work to do. There is also a lot to overcome in this world. Churches offer strength and guidance. Granted God will guide you and give you strength, after all He is, "The lifter of my head." but assembling together with others gives you a direction for purpose.

[ QUOTE ]

If you force someone to go to church by saying I think everyone should be at church every time the door is open which is what was said. Is this not kind of forceful? Not everyone believes the same, and suggesting that everyone should be there every time the doors are open in my opinion is suggestive to be very much so imposing the ideas that church is in some way or form required. Opinions are different, mine obviously are not the same as yours or as Jeramie's, but does that make me a hypocrite?

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I never said anyone should be forced to go to Church. I said in my opinion everyone should be in Church. The word "forced" was never used and or implied. Granted it would still do people good but "Forced" wasn't used to any degree.

And I know there are different opinions on whether you should be in Church every time the door opens but there are different ways to look at that too. There are obvious situations where Church isn't realistic on certain days. I do not attend Church on Vacation (however we have talked about dropping in on a Church in another state when we are out).

Even my Pastor talks of people taking a break. Being part of a Church is to be committed. Not only is it important for support but the Bible Commands it. Read my Post above. There is scripture proving that point.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Sunday Hunting

[ QUOTE ]

That hitting you as hard as it did shows that people put a Pastor on a pedestal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope, dont hardly think I would consider trusting someone to be the same as putting them on a pedestal Jeramie. The man let us down. Disappointment is an understatement in how we felt. He gave into what he claimed to be against while he was in front of us preaching the word. I still have a relationship with God just without the physical aspects of a church building.

As for some of the other comments, I never said I was shunning or hated anyone which is what you are suggesting with the scriptures you are quoting and with what you are saying here. I simply do not care to and chose not to surround myself with people who act as though they are religious for whatever reasons, while they truly are there only for appearance.

Back to the original topic, how about the people who worship the day of rest on a day aside from Sunday. Why not also take Saturday hunting out for those seventh day adventists who believe that Saturday is the Lords day?

This argument could go on forever, and I am not pointing any fingers or faulting anyone for my own beliefs. I do agree that forgiving man is right, but trusting man and forgiving man are not the same, and trusting man may in some cases might just not be in your best interest.

Seems this thread there has been a lot of insinuations and implications of individuals thoughts that are being twisted around or quite possibly simply misunderstood or misconstrued. I never personally attacked anyone for their beliefs, for their jobs, or any other reason and apologize if I for some reason have come across that way as that was not my intentions.

[johnf]

Re: Sunday Hunting

[ QUOTE ]

I simply do not care to and chose not to surround myself with people who act as though they are religious for whatever reasons, while they truly are there only for appearance.

[/ QUOTE ]

To me that would be like not going to work because you didn't like being around lazy people who didn't take thier job serious.

There are lazy "Christians" in every church and bad pasters in a few, just like there are lazy people in every place of employment and bad bosses in a few. I'm sure jeramie has some hypocrites in his church just like I do and just like preacherman does. When they sit before God they will have to explain why they were there and didn't do anything. That's not enough reson for me to be in the position of Him asking me why I wasn't even there.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Sunday Hunting

For all of those of you who do chose go to church and for the preachers and pastors on here I aplogize. I realize and understand that not all churches are the same nor are all churches filled with the types of people I make mention to in some of my previous replies, I was just speaking from my own experience with the churches I have been either a member of or been to as a visitor.

Dont know for sure, whether it be through misunderstanding or my choice of the way I worded what I said, I somehow think I may have possibly offended some people not intentionally, and for that I am sorry.

[preacherman]

Re: Sunday Hunting

[ QUOTE ]

For all of those of you who do chose go to church and for the preachers and pastors on here I aplogize. I realize and understand that not all churches are the same nor are all churches filled with the types of people I make mention to in some of my previous replies, I was just speaking from my own experience with the churches I have been either a member of or been to as a visitor.

Dont know for sure, whether it be through misunderstanding or my choice of the way I worded what I said, I somehow think I may have possibly offended some people not intentionally, and for that I am sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't do this or say this much, but apology accepted; because you offended me. I just get tired of people on this website putting people who are in my occupation in the same big old barrel and saying that we are the same........because we are not. I know some preachers, and trust me, I wouldn't walk across the street to hear them if somebody paid me a thousand dollars a step. But then again, I know some car dealers who I don't trust either; but that doesn't stop me from going to buy a car. I know some people at some Wal Mart's who have done nothing but shown their tales; but that doesn't stop me from going to Wal Mart.

I just think when things like this come up; we need to be careful of what we are saying and who we are judging. The main point of this thread was simply "Is Sunday Hunting O.K.?" Not, "Do you go to church and why?" And then somewhere in the mix of it, preachers get slammed. And it was with that, that I was greatly offended........that is why I responded the way I did.

So, again, apology accepted...........water under the bridge.............let's all just love Jesus, hunt and shop at Wal Mart!

[unioncountyslayer]

Re: Sunday Hunting

God bless you Scott. And I'll keep my opinion short and sweet. I believe that the Lord intended and stated that the Sabbath would be a day of rest. What's better than sitting in the woods and resting while enjoying HIS creation. When it becomes work I'll stop doing it. After a long week, hunting is the only "rest" I get. I'd welcome Sunday hunting to NC. I'd go before and after church.

[johnf]

Re: Sunday Hunting

[ QUOTE ]

Dont know for sure, whether it be through misunderstanding or my choice of the way I worded what I said, I somehow think I may have possibly offended some people not intentionally, and for that I am sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought this a fairly friendly debate. No appology needed, but I'll acept it if it'll make you feel better.

[markyj987]

Re: Sunday Hunting

Okay, I've been sitting here--typing--deleting--retyping this over and over. I am NOT trying to be a fence sitter here, but I can REALLY see where everyone's coming from.

My first point is that I feel William's statement about imposing ones belief on another as hypocritical was taken COMPLETELY out of context. With the initial post topic--government permitting or not permitting Sunday hunting--it was clear to me he was REALLY referring to the idea of GOVERNMENT imposing its will on people to be in church on Sunday instead of hunting. That's how I took it--please correct me if I'm wrong, William.

That being the way I understood it, I agree with William completely. Nobody--and in particular the government--has no business to tell me to be in church on Sunday and not hunting. (Heck, they won't even let kids pray in school. Therefore, government banning Sunday hunting on religious grounds is COMPLETELY hypocritical.)

His basic point about going to a "chuch building" REALLY resonates with me. The points in my life at which I felt closest to God ocurred in these places:

--My cousin's lawn the day I was saved. (I was just walking across it...and I felt the unconditional love of the Lord for the first time.)

--The day my dad died suddenly. There we were: My mother, sister, and I (brother didn't get there until later). I touched his hand--and felt nothing. It became difficult to swallow, but at the same time I thought I was going to vomit. My father--the man full of vigor early that morning was gone. Here, on this gurnee, a lifeless capsule. Nothing more. He wasn't there. And then suddenly, a calm. Of course he wasn't here--but with the Lord. No, God didn't speak to me like "Hey Mark! Listen up--this is the big G. Your dad's here with me." It was nothing of the sort--it was just--knowledge and peace.

--The first time to the cemetery after my dad's funeral. It was a long time after he died--at least a year. I'd seen it in movies--people go to the cemetery to talk to those they loved and lost. I went--I was missing Dad. I got there and felt nothing--I began to feel disappointed, like I was going to puke--so empty---and there it was again. Peace and knowldege..."I'm not here...I'm with Him." This is the only way I can put it into words---but what I felt--knew--"heard" cannot be repeated because it was not fully tangible--but VERY real.

--Perhaps six months or a year later, I was driving to see my girlfriend at the time. It was dark out--maybe 9:30 or so. I was on an empty highway surrounded by rolling hills and trees. In my heart I felt it again--this time "It's beautiful here." I almost said out loud--"Yes it is." Only to then realize that the words I felt weren't reflecting on the scenery--but of where my father--and my Father are.

These are just the MAJOR moments I've had a brief, close, indescribable connection with Him. There are others I have almost daily--when I first see the sun on the horizon or see and awesome power of a thunderstorm--knowing the Creator made this all. It's truly remarkable.

I hate to ramble on--but these moments--and many others are because of my personal relationship with the Lord--which needs to intermediary. The "middle man" William referenced is in a real sense in that some religions believe and intermediary is needed between man and Christ.

In some churches I've been to--that don't believe in this--the pastor is still viewed as a middle man. No matter HOW MANY TIMES they might say "take this to God" or "go to God" or "I am just a man" I believe that there is a natural desire for man to be close to God. Because of that desire, many Christians feel they need to be on their best behavior--and put on a front for their church leaders. In these cases, the pastor is a "middle man" though NOT because of anything they've done wrong. It is simply because we (members of congregations) are NOT perfect. We are sinners.

As preacherman pointed out, there are wicked people in his profession as there are in any other. Given the amount of trust many put into their pastors as church leaders, teachers, mentors, it makes people MUCH more critical of them when one does something wrong. Whether that's right or not is not for me to say, but I can FULLY understand why one pastor committing transgressions against one congregation could easily sour thousands on the church experience--even if they are thousands of miles away.

Look at the Catholic church. Agree or disagree with their beliefes, how many thousands and thousands of GOOD priests have been a part of the church? A miniscule percentage abuse their authority and take advantage of children--and the vitriol shown towards Catholics in the media is almost impossible to comprehend!

Anyway, I think this thread ended up being a series of misunderstandings--I wanted to throw in my 45 cents and also thank you all for keeping it as civil as you did--considering the amount of passion people have about faith topics!