Another Grey Area

[horst]

Im starting to really wonder if the DNR here has any actual laws or if everyone interprets the law thier own way Heres the story.

As most of you know, i took my 9 yr old son on his first deer hunt earlier this fall.Before I even bought him a tag I went out to the DNR station here and asked exactly what lcenses I needed myself to take a kid hunting.Since I wouldnt be carrying a gun and was just there to sit with him they told me all I needed was a regular hunting license and habitat stamp, I didnt need a deer license for that season.I wasnt real concerned at that point, Bow season was open and I had bow tags if something came up and I needed to help him put a wounded deer down or something I could have brought my bow along and been perfectly legal.He got his deer and the season ended without any problems.

Next my brother in law bought his 11 yr son a shotgun license.He was licensed as well but could only hunt for the first 2 days.His kid didnt get a deer and I volunteered to take him out after school the rest of season.At some point my brother in law talked to another guy from the DNR and was told that in his opinion these kids werent old enough to hunt deer and shouldnt be bought licenses That really pissed me off and to top it off he wouldnt even discuss what licenses the adult needed to accompany them.This guy was the actual game warden for that county and judging by his attitude I decided to check the regulations on the subject and make sure I wasnt doing nothing illegal.

So according to the regulations "participating" in a hunt means handling guns or ammo during the hunt, calling game, flushing, driving, or locating game.I wasnt doing none of these things but it went on to say that it wasnt limited to these things and it was up to the "discretion" of the officer involved if I was participating in the hunt.

So, at this point I have no idea if Ive been breakng the law all week or not. Seasons over, the kid didnt get his deer, think he got a little rattled and the few shots he had he missed completely.So I decided to email the DNR headquarters in Des Moines for a definate answer on it.Got this response.

[ QUOTE ]

Chris; there is some grey area in situations like this when we (DNR)

> look at folks like yourself who are doing the right thing by

"mentoring"

> and supervising a young hunter.

> My typical response is that you as the licensed adult (but no deer

> license) cannot "assist" this youth to take/shoot a deer. This

doesn't

> mean that you can't sit with them in a stand or blind and provide

verbal

> guidance etc. ..in fact we would expect that. Where we have problems

is

> when the adult tries to assist by driving deer to the young hunter

etc.

> This type of assistance does require that the adult possess a deer

> license.

> I would like to know who (DNR person) you spoke with about this.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I guesse everyone I talked to has a different opinion on the subject, sitting with him as I was doing is legal, according to the regulations and at least one DNR officer.The DNR officer in that county however didnt seem to view it the same way and technically he could have arrested me for hunting deer without a license even though I wasnt hunting.He actually seemed to think we should be ticketed for taking kids hunting at that age and I dont think he woulda used much discretion in the matter

So anyway, Ive either been breaking the law or mentoring a young hunter all week, not sure which.I cant see me not taking the time to take kids out hunting in the near future and I cant buy licenses for every season.Im amazed at how many of these game laws seem to have no actual solid definition and left up to the discretion of someone.Who would of thought taking a kid hunting could be viewed as an illegal; activity

[Missed160]

Re: Another Grey Area

It doesn't seem like a grey area to me, just a DNR officer who doesn't agree with the law.

My first question would be, does your archery season close during the gun season? If it doesn't, then by having a legal license for a season that is open at the time, I would say the you are 100% licensed! Just because you are with a person gun hunting doesn't mean you need a gun license.

As far as the kids getting licenses, I would think that the DNR should/would institute some type of lcense for them, or just s free tag they can get. Without some type of license/tag, how do you check the deer in to be included in harvest totals? Or if you are going to get the deer processed, or something to go to the taxidermist, they need to have a tag number before they can do anything, to prove it was harvested legally..

I would print out and keep a copy of the DNR's response to your email. That way, if the situation ever arises you can prove you have looked into it and everything is ok..

[Tominator]

Re: Another Grey Area

you know, and i know, and law enforcement knows something to the effect of "spirit of the law."

the spirit of this law is that adults help getting youngsters involved and started hunting. some won't see that and will drive deer, or worse, actually do the hunting.

i think you stayed within the spirit of the law horst. but having said that, i'd steer clear of the DNR officer's county that doesn't see it that way.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Another Grey Area

Makes me glad I live in Texas. Much simpler rules and regs.

[elkoholic]

Re: Another Grey Area

Any time the law is left open to the discretion of the officer/warden there is going to be problems. In those instances, in a court of law, it is pretty easy to get a case thrown out as there basically is no law, just interpretation. Should not even go that far as the state needs to clarify their position. Seems like if an outfitter/guide/friend would surely be guilty of participating in a hunt even if they set up stands in a likely looking area and did not have a license to hunt. What if you filled your tag already, does that disqualify you from helping someone else, because in reality you no longer have a legal tag? Strange law not allowing any participation unless licensed to hunt that species/season.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Another Grey Area

[ QUOTE ]

i think you stayed within the spirit of the law horst. but having said that, i'd steer clear of the DNR officer's county that doesn't see it that way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Could not agree more. Think sometimes there is too much individual discretion left to the officer.

[billygoat]

Re: Another Grey Area

Seems like the DNR in Iowa is spending to much time at their computers, writing a bunch of technicallities, it is obvious, after a week of hunting down their, that they don't have enough wardens in the fields... I can't believe the number of high powered rifles going off down their... and what's with all of the road hunting?