Strut10 Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Well........the fat lady has sung on another bow season in the awesome, Gary Alt-induced, monsterbuck state of PA. During this past 6 weeks I saw more than 40 different bucks. Not sure of the exact number.....shoulda kept a log but didn't. But I can mentally tally over 40. Of those 40: Approximately 1/4 were legal. Approximately 1/4 were 2 1/2 yrs. old Of the 2 1/2 yr. deer........about 1/2 were legal 4 were 3 1/2 yrs. or older Of those 4.......2 were legal Not one buck had more than 8 points Granted, that's quite a few approximations. Like I said.....shoulda kept a log. But where's all the monsterbucks Alt promised would be behind every other tree in a couple years? The only thing I can give Alt credit for is evening the buck : doe ratio. He's gotten the doe population smacked down pretty well. It's about 1:2 or 1:3 where I'm at.........and the deer around here are afforded some protections that a lot of them don't get other places. As far as that goes........so are the bucks. Whatever. Pretty sad to sit in a tree for 6 weeks in a "post- Gary (genius) Alt world to see 40-some bucks and not one shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohiobucks Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* So move. Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, Montana....all are Gary Alt free...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowtechTurkeyHunter Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* I bet I have passed on that many deer this year .... and will probably pass on others ... shotgun season yet to go ... dont move to Iowa we dont have any big deer here ... Ohio has all the big deer... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted November 12, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] So move. Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, Montana....all are Gary Alt free...... [/ QUOTE ] Yeah. And I'm still trying to figure out how those states ever grew a decent-racked deer without Gary's intervention of AR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shockwave Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] So move. Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, Montana....all are Gary Alt free...... [/ QUOTE ] we are Alt free, were still suffering from his policy the P.G.C. adopted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HaDeRonDa Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] Yeah. And I'm still trying to figure out how those states ever grew a decent-racked deer without Gary's intervention of AR. [/ QUOTE ] Better nutrition????? Shorter gun season? Lower population of bucks per sq mile/ harvested? Iowa's deer population is on the rise and has been. Just as Pa's once was as well as the entire NE after the Civil War. Until Iowa have reached a rate in which deer are eating everything, including peoples gardens like like NY and PA, antlers will be big. It's all about harvest rates, genetics and nutrition. Heck, some areas of Pa the deer herd has eaten species to extantion. (not extinction) Talk about overpopulation!! How can you have "big racked" bucks with that problem. Lucky buck maybe. If aged deer with small racks is the problem then you have a genetics problem. That can be area specific. That could be your problem. Poor genetics and great feed does very little for antlers. AR does increase antler size on the whole. It actually ages the herd more efficiently. That aging should straighten out the genetic problem that you may have. It just is going to take time, maybe more time that you honestly do not have. Not kidding. it can take a LONG TIME!!!, but shouldn't. Until then, get ready for either several more years of screwed up racks or be ready to drive to a better area ( referring to genetically quality) Sad and sick in the short term. Hey, we all want results as we have been promised. Sometimes those results take longer than we have been promised. I feel bad for your situation. I know in the past you may have felt that I was making sport of the situation. Sorry. It sounds like you have a hardcore genetics problem. That may be able to be looked at by the PAGC but you will have to ask for help. Just hope that your local harvest stats are different than the rest of the state. If it makes you feel any better I sat in one treestand for over 45 hours and saw no deer here in NY! Then I went to a place GWSmth recommended and saw 8 in about 7 hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman2230 Posted November 12, 2006 Report Share Posted November 12, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* Strut10...I know what you mean....at least you saw some deer tho. I think I saw 10 deer total all season. The deer in my area are pretty well depleted. I have a feeling the rifle season is going to be even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* I know what your feeling Don. Maybe the entire state should be three or more points like it is here on the east end. I really feel it has made a BIG difference in the size of racks in my area. Just like my post on the last day in the Bowhunting room. Then again maybe that buck was a fluke, who knows! he has 40,000 acres to roam around, may never see him again! But now, that just created another problem for me. I got family members who read stuff here and will tell everybody! I guess I cant say much about things like this anymore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Finn Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] So move. Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, Kentucky, Indiana, Kansas, Montana....all are Gary Alt free...... [/ QUOTE ] Move to Ohio....they've got all the big bucks there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* Sorry you had an uneventful season Don...but I still gotta disagree with ya! We maybe not seeing the class of bucks they got in the midwest...but I've seen some dandy's this year. Seen some that were killed by hunters, some killed by cars and I know of a few still on hoof. Like I said, I'm not talking 150"+...but I know of a few on hoof that would easily make P&Y. Take a visit to a local taxidermist shop and see what they have there lying around waiting to be mounted. Outta the 3 taxidermist I know...they've all said this year and last year have brought in some good bucks. Not that they never did before...but much more quality of racks. I have no probs. still seeing and killing does and I personally like seeing less does and more bucks than like in the past. Yeah I may have seen 40-50 deer in a day of rifle season...but maybe 1 decent 8 pointer. Now I'm seeing 15-20 deer in a herd...but 2-3 good bucks with some younger ones as well. A trophy is def in the eye of the beholder and I would never put someone down for shooting a little racked buck. But I honestly can say I really like going down the highway and not see a spike or forkhorn hanging out the back of a truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob_D Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* I'd like to feel bad for you, but I don't. Let's see....I 6 weeks you saw 40 bucks and 80-120 doe. 10 of those bucks were "legal". You know what we see here in Vt? I'm lucky if I see 1 buck during a 3 week archery season. Maybe 10-15 doe and I am lucky if I get a good shooting oppertunity. It's not from lack of scouting or time in the woods. Sorry, but I get sick and tired of guys from PA P&M about not having deer and antler restrictions. You have no idea how good you actually have it. You want a reality check?? Come hunt in VT for a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] ...Come hunt in VT for a week. [/ QUOTE ] ..Or Central New York I've seen 63 deer from my treestand, on local private property where only a few other hunters have the privelege of going, this year so far...one 3 pointer and one 7 pointer On the local State forest land...I've seen Zero bucks. People with 3 preference points this season had trouble getting a Doe management permit for this area??? In the Land where a "Legally Antlered Deer" has "At least one antler that is three inches or longer" ...If it has a horn it gets Hammered There are now 4 management areas in the entire state where there are antler restrictions...Data from last year in those areas showed a 63% drop in Buck harvest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] Sorry, but I get sick and tired of guys from PA P&M about not having deer and antler restrictions. You have no idea how good you actually have it. You want a reality check?? Come hunt in VT for a week. [/ QUOTE ] But see, you don't know how good it was! There was a lot more deer then, than now! So yes, since we live here and SEE the difference. Sure we will complain, if you don't like, it don't open the post! But I also heard how difficult it is for people up north in the New England states. You guys complain and don't hear anybody down here complaining about your P&M'ing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* John, The complaints before that I heard were that there were Tons of Does and nothing but Small Bucks in PA. (I've heard this from my father almost all my life...I was born in Pittsburgh) So whats the difference now??? What has changed??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bob_D Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] John, The complaints before that I heard were that there were Tons of Does and nothing but Small Bucks in PA. So whats the difference now??? What has changed??? [/ QUOTE ] Gary, People are not seeing 100 deer a day. Don't you get it? It's suppose to be a petting zoo. John, Please inform me of a thread that I started complaining about deer hunting in VT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* I seen four does in six weeks! I was out every weekend (Friday & Saturday) except the first day! Which is why I say, I like AR! But HATE HR! Yes I have two doe tags, which might get burned yet. They were to be used only for archery, but now I am trying a handgun for deer this rifle season. If I fill one great, Ill burn the other one like I did last year. If I still dont start seeing more does in my area, Ill burn them BOTH! I was never big on doe hunting to begin with! The only reason I bought it was to get a deer with my bow to boast myself that it can be done with a bow, by ME! I have no problem taking ONE BUCK and ONE DOE! But I know some SUPERMEAT hounds that kill everything they can get their hands on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] It's suppose to be a petting zoo. [/ QUOTE ] No its not! But I do remember seeing 40-60 deer the opening morning of rilfe season when I was a kid! That alone would keep me coming back year after year to hunt deer! It KEPT my INTEREST!!! Get it! How do you keeps the kids interest now when you might see a deer the opening day??? [ QUOTE ] John, Please inform me of a thread that I started complaining about deer hunting in VT. [/ QUOTE ] I never said you did! I just heard that it was hard up there to see and take deer! [ QUOTE ] You guys complain and don't hear anybody down here complaining about your P&M'ing. [/ QUOTE ] Which means we here complaints about the deer hunting up there and we feel sorry about your situation! But we live here, and you live there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* Thanks John...My Father always said that "He would see 80-90+ deer a day hunting there...but only a couple spikes in the group". So the Bucks are getting bigger..but their not big enough yet everywhere. The Doe population is lowered to a closer Buck to Doe ratio. Theres spots in the state where people are taking legal size Bucks...but not the entire state. Do I have that right??? Here, Just in this area of New York, the Buck to Doe ratio is so out of whack because of the 3" antler rule for a legal buck your state sounds like a dream Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LifeNRA Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* Yes, that was the way it used to be. I am starting to get the buck-to-doe ratio thing, the I feel the state needs to be controlled differently by region. Not every area in the state has tons of does. Its un-believable the amount of food I have seen this fall laying all over the ground, and only the turkeys and squirrels are eating them. Some places HR has helped, other places it has hurt the areas really bad. [ QUOTE ] So the Bucks are getting bigger..but their not big enough yet everywhere. [/ QUOTE ] Yes and no! In Don's area western PA they have a FOUR or more points on one side before that deer can be legally taken. The eastern side of PA its THREE or more on one side. I like the three or more rule but like Don said he has been seeing LARGE SIX pointers. They should be taken out of the gene pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodsman2230 Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* I agree with LifeNRA....I understand the ratio deal but in the area where I live that dosent leave very many deer around. When I started hunting 7 years ago I was seeing about 20-25 deer a day during rifle season. Now I am thrilled to see one. And im not kidding. The last three rifle seasons my dad and I have hunted we have seen 3 deer. COMBINED!! Thats it. IMO AR is not the problem....sure it costs some people some bucks but thats a good thing, they get a chance to grow up. But I dont see any benefit to HR, at least in my area. I dont know how it is in other areas of the state but I can tell you in my area its getting to the point where its not worth spending the time in the woods anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAstringking Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* In bradford county, where i hunt, there are tond of deer and just as many deer hunters. Every year there is a 7 pointer or bigger killed on my property. In the past 2 years we have seen some of the biggest bucks to date including the 10 pointer that i shot (pics in the other thread). I think if anything the doe population needs to be trimmed down quite a bit because i see so many does every year that i dont think that bucks know what to do when it comes time for the rut. This AR rule is great to a certain extent but it only gives you more bucks, not bigger bucks. I think in the next few years the PGC is going to allow hunters in certain areas take more then 1 or 2 does a year. I know your thinkin that you can now but in Bradford county your lucky to get 1 tag let alone a secondary. i think the future is bright but the hunters need to do their part by thinning some of the does and stop trophy hunting. sorry for the rant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* [ QUOTE ] ....seeing LARGE SIX pointers. They should be taken out of the gene pool. [/ QUOTE ] Gauranteed around here they would be taken out! That kind of deer goes on the wall here! I cant begin to count the number of garages that have the racks from Spikes and Forkhorns nailed to them ...and some of them have a whopping 6-8" spread What I'm saying is that it could be Worse. They did Herd Reduction in the local area a few years ago in an attempt to stop CWD. They also stopped issueing Doe Management permits as well. They pretty much had to...They slaughtered alot of deer that Summer and they did not just pick Does to eliminate either This year the numbers of deer have IMHO rebounded very nicely and almost every Mature Doe I've seen has had 2 fawns with her. It will probably take a little longer for the Buck population to rebound but one things for sure...someone is breeding those Does. The main problem here is that they wont ever have the chance to grow long enough to become a Large 6 Pointer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ptbuckpa Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* Granted I am a young hunter but from what my dad and I have seen in just the past several years there has been an increase in the number of bigger bucks. Out of 10 bucks we see 9 if not 10 of those bucks are not spikes and out of them 9; 7 are 5pts or bigger. And the bucks are getting older just making the hunting to me that more enjoyable because now you have to work a little harder. here is a pic of the buck I shot last year in 2F public Land Allegheny National forest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8ptbuckpa Posted November 13, 2006 Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* here are some deer in velvet from this summer the first 3 are from Bradford County and the last is from Dauphin County Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted November 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 13, 2006 Re: Thankd PGC..........*NOT DELETED* O.K. Nevermind. It's gotta be all in my imagination. Silly me for expecting to see a good shooter buck somewhere among 40-some antlered deer. Don't matter where you're from.......PA, NY,VT........I would lay the title to the Strut10 Ranch on the fact that the average 1 1/2 yr. old buck's rack where I hunt has decreased in size since the Alt mess has been implemented. Take it to the bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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