LifeNRA Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 I dont, but I feel that caliper is too small for deer! Not enough killing power! But I imagine a well placed shot will kill it sooner or later! I wouldn't go lower than a .243 for deer. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles I personally would prefer to see someone shoot a bigger caliber for deer. However, it will do the job! Seen deer drop from a .22-250 and seen several deer drop from a .223 also. My cousin's daughter (age 12) shot her first buck and doe this season with a .223. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrud Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles Oh boy, here we go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles [ QUOTE ] the 223 doesnt have enough velocity to ethically harvest a deer. [/ QUOTE ] In fear of starting an "off-topic" arguement...I'll keep this short and sweet. How much "velocity" does it take to harvest a deer? Most .223's will shoot alot faster (and I mean ALOT ) than a bow and most bows will get clean pass throughs. If the bullet is well placed...it will drop a 300# buck...end of discussion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles I'm sure it would work with a well placed shot but I won't try it b/c here it is not legal to shoot deer with any gun in 22 caliber. .243 is the smallest caliber we can legally use for big game hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles [ QUOTE ] Oh boy, here we go! [/ QUOTE ] I hear ya man..LOL Im not going there either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles Nope. Never would. Buy a bigger gun unless your last name is Hathcock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles [ QUOTE ] In fear of starting an "off-topic" arguement...I'll keep this short and sweet. How much "velocity" does it take to harvest a deer? Most .223's will shoot alot faster (and I mean ALOT ) than a bow and most bows will get clean pass throughs. If the bullet is well placed...it will drop a 300# buck...end of discussion! [/ QUOTE ] You cannot compare rifles to bows. Bows kill because they cause a deer to bleed to death.Rifles kill with energy. Would you shoot an elk with a .223? I wouldn't, but I definatly would with my bow. Velocity does not kill. Expended energy does. The .223 is not a big enough bullet to have the energy required to "consistantly" kill deer. There is just not much room for error with a .223. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Rifles I was going to say something....no I ain't... I agree with Jim 100%. enough said.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles First...read the first line of my first post! Second...I wasn't the one who brought "velocity" into the equation! Third...the bow and gun both kill using energy, and believe it or not, they both kill by bleeding. Forth...I do not use a .223 (don't even own one) for deer, however; I've seen a guy shoot a mature doe at 150 yards with a 55gr. bullet from a .22-250 and flat out pancake her where she stood. The question was "If anyone used .223 for deer". And like it or not, it will kill a deer! On a side note, I can shoot my .22-250 prob. 50 times better than the "average" hunter can shoot a "deer" cal. rifle. I will not use this gun for deer hunting, but Iam confident enough to know if I wanted to...I could easily kill a deer with it...and ETHICS have nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles [ QUOTE ] Expended energy does. [/ QUOTE ] How much energy does the average arrow have at lets say 30 yards? How much energy does a 55gr. bullet fired from a .223 at 100 yards have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles I wouldn't hunt with one. With as much time as I spend on a deer stand I would rather hunt with a caliber that is better suited for putting a deer down myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Missed160 Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles I think that you need to add another part to your equation, what kind of deer are you shooting? In the northern states and Canada, the average size of a good Whitetail buck has to be 50-60 lbs heavier then a Texas deer, and deer over 250 are shott all the time. That said, I would safely say it takes a lot more to kill the bigger animals.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles Ive seen deer shot with a .22 rifle go down within 40 yrds of being shot.If the question was can you kill a deer with a .223 then the answer would be yes you certainly can.Id think it would depend on a lot on how close you are to the animal and where you put your bullet.Deer arent exactly armor plated no matter how big they are.A higher caliber would be a better choice like you all said but it doesnt really take a lot to kill a deer at close range. [ QUOTE ] In my opinion, anyone who uses anything less than a .243 caliber is hunting unethically!!! [/ QUOTE ] In my opinion shooting at deer a 1/4 mile away with an elephant gun isnt ethical either but a lotta guys do it Dragging ethics into these conversations is always fun isnt it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles Good reason it is not legal here to hunt with anything smaller than .24 caliber. Even if it were legal here, a .223 in my opinion is just not a "deer caliber", and should not be considered as such. Sure a well placed shot will take a deer down, even with a .17 or a .22 I am sure a skilled marskman could kill a deer, but why risk it. Step up to a .243 and be confident in knowing you have enough to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimT Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles No one said Snapper brought up velocity, and I said energy kills not velocity. A 100gr fmj shot at 3500 fps will not do nearly the damage as a 100gr CoreLokt. Yes, a bullet causes a deer to bleed, but the energy released increases tissue damage by at least two fold if not more. A .223 and a 22-250 are not in the same league, and should not be compared. A 223 with a 55gr psp has 1282 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. A 22-250 with the same bullet has 1654. In my mind using a sub par firearm to hunt deer is unethical. Will a .223 kill a deer? Yup. Will I ever use one? No. All in good fun Snapper,,,, Just an easy difference of opinions. Without that, this forum would be boring eh... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xen Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles .223 - shoot for the head, sniper style, then yell out HEADSHOT as loud as you can when it drops... I use a 7mm Mag or a .54 cal ML for big game, my .223 is for coyotes and the occasional LDS missionary that wanders too close or comes by the house too late at night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhino Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles I don't know......what do you think........Ford or Chevy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Rifles [ QUOTE ] Snapper,,,, Just an easy difference of opinions. [/ QUOTE ] Actually there isn't a difference in opinions...I wouldn't use the cal. either for deer. When someone asks if anyone uses a certain cal....instead of getting responses that he/she asked for, all Monday night quarterbacks jump in and say things like "not big enough" "not ethical to use" blah blah blah. My point, the cal. will and has dropped many deer in the past. Will I use it...NO! Someone would get the same responses (just a complete 180) if he/she would have posted..."Anyone use a 378 HH Mag for deer?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Rifles [ QUOTE ] I enjoy getting other peoples opinions. Sometimes I agree sometimes I dont. [/ QUOTE ] I agree...I like seeing others opinions. But the orginal post didn't ask for an opinion...asked if anyone used the gun for deer. Opinions are just that...opinions. But if the FACTS differ from your opinion...then its not an opinion, is it? Ok, lets start over! 1. Do I use a .223 for deer? NO 2. Will it kill a deer? YES 3. Would I use one for deer? Not if I had other options. #3 is the kicker...maybe someone doesn't have access to any other cal. and can shoot a .223 really well. Now this person because of asking a question feels like they can't go hunting because its unethical to use the only gun he/she has. BTW...I'm done with this post, gave my opinion and answered the post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Rifles I have a buddy that hunts exclusively with a Ruger Mini 14, in 223. I don't know how many deer and hogs that gun has killed, but it is quite a few, have yet to hear of him losing any of them, and most drop in their tracks, or close to POI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xen Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Rifles when people mention velocity and actualy energy for knockdown power, i think they are getting a little bit off subject.... in regards to velocity - bow, muzzle loader, both shoot slower than a .223 - speed isn't really the issue, a .22 shoots faster than a bow too, i wouldn't use that for deer hunting, but, I have seen the fish & game here in utah use a ruger 10/22 to kill a deer with a shot to the head in a residence area. yes a .223 can kill a deer, I wouldn't use one - doesn't make it wrong if you want to do it - people mention that it would take longer to kill the deer, well, yes, but so does a bow... no need for the string of posts about maybe you instant-killed a deer with a bow - 9 times out of 10 a bow hunter shoots a deer and then tracks the blood trail to find it unless he actually sees where it ran off to and dropped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Rifles BOY,I'M SURE GLAD WE CAN'T USE RIFLES IN ILLINOIS.THIS BUNCH REALLY GETS RILED UP ABOUT THEIR RIFLES. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Xen Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Rifles you have a point, but then, i've never seen somebody hunt deer with an AR-15... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut_Buster Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Rifles [ QUOTE ] you have a point, but then, i've never seen somebody hunt deer with an AR-15... [/ QUOTE ] I have it drops deer just fine. It wouldn't be my choice ever but a well placed shot is deadly. But I think I'll stay wilth my 300 WSM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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