hunting_boy Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question ok i read it and i get it lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question Goodnight Jamesbob...I'm going to bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunting_boy Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question night Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbuckkilla89 Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question I've seen deer killed with a 22. but every time it was a shot to the head. I've also seen 1 deer shot with a 22. in a perfect place right behind the shoulder in the lungs twice. We found blood both times he hit her but she always stopped bleedin and we lost the doe. IMO I wouldnt hunt with anything smaller than a 22-250. david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lobsterman Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question i have seen deer killed with a .22 magnum... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Finn Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] Since the Missouri hunting regs have got you covered as far as the center-shot cartridge goes, I guess it's up to you to decide on which caliber you think is ethical and responsible to kill a deer in a quick and humane fashion. Even that gut-shot deer would have laid down for you to finish it off, if you were using a bigger caliber. Think about it. [/ QUOTE ] Good post, Buckee. I believe that round being legal is an oversight. Sure, it's technically legal....but I wouldn't use it for deer. My .22 Mag could kill a deer, but it's just not the right weapon to use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest potato Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question actually, it is a illegal it says Centerfire pistols, revolvers and rifles a .22 is a rimfire fire arm, meaning that the primer is the base of the cartridge. rimfire rim·fire [ rÃm fï †r ] adjective Definition: with cartridge having primer in rim: describes a firearm designed for or using a cartridge with its primer located in the rim of the base, rather than in the center ( http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861702832/rimfire.html ) A center fire is a cartridge with a primer in the middle Just my 2 cents... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HuntCast Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] actually, it is a illegal it says Centerfire pistols, revolvers and rifles a .22 is a rimfire fire arm, meaning that the primer is the base of the cartridge. rimfire rim·fire [ rÃm fï †r ] adjective Definition: with cartridge having primer in rim: describes a firearm designed for or using a cartridge with its primer located in the rim of the base, rather than in the center ( http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861702832/rimfire.html ) A center fire is a cartridge with a primer in the middle Just my 2 cents... [/ QUOTE ] Well, considering they have been making a cartridge for his gun since........ the 20's or 30's, It seems your information is a bit in error! If you would have instead searched: .22 CENTERFIRE RIFLE You would have avoided the problem altogether Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hunting_boy Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question they are centerfire 22 hornet i love haveing freinds to help out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] ..This is the important part, and the write-up below the chart too. [ QUOTE ] Description: Rapid expansion or fragmentation on impact. For Prairie dog, coyote, woodchuck. [/ QUOTE ] Thats because of the Kinetic Energy a small bullet has...especialy that small bullet. It's a perfect round for that type game...Low Body Mass!!! A bigger bullet with more speed(because of the larger amount of powder used in the cartridge) carries more Kinetic Energy causing more damage to an animal with more Body Mass...like a Deer! Here is a comparison between two different calibers. The 22Hornet and the 270win. Look at the difference in ENERGY between the two and you'll see why the 22hornet is Not a Deer Caliber: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question I really hate that this state went and made all ceneterfire calibers legal this year, think it was a really bad move. Think they should have stuck with the .24 or higher. Buckshot is still not legal here, in yet they have made it legal and there will be some out there with .22 ceneterfires firing multiple shots on deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mims Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question 22 Hornet is fine. Some people use bows and arrows on deer! The foot pounds and Ke on those are pretty low. Some folks use the same size rifle on elk as deer. I think alot of people use too much gun for deer. I am using a 223. The basic thing is putting a hole in something importat. A hole in the heart, lungs or major bv is lethal regardles of size. Also with a good bullet that 22 Hornet will mushroom quickly and make a nice hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question Your right William...It's a bad move!!! Deer get killed faster when thier hit with alot of energy and from a bullet that causes Massive Trauma. Unless hit in the head...a 22Hornet will cause little Trauma and the deer runs off to bleed internally and die somewhere and not be found. Hit with a larger caliber bullet traveling faster and carrying more Energy the damage is much more causing "Hydro-shock" to vital organs and a quicker death. Another comparison between the 22Hornet, the 243win(IMHO the minimum caliber for deer sized game), and the 270win. The 22hornet has only about 1/4 of the ENERGY as the 243 @100yds!!! Theres no possible way the 22hornet can do the damage required to bring about a quick kill! Mims, Your comparison between how an Arrow kills a deer and how a Bullet kills a deer has only one point correct...it has to do damage to a vital organ. Where the Arrow differs is that it does Not have the speed that causes "Hydro-Shock" to surrounding tissue and that it kills by causing the deer to bleed internally by cutting. The Bullet can cause more damage much quicker to surrounding vital organs by "Hydro-Shock"..even without hitting them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] Your right William...It's a bad move!!! Deer get killed faster when thier hit with alot of energy and from a bullet that causes Massive Trauma. Unless hit in the head...a 22Hornet will cause little Trauma and the deer runs off to bleed internally and die somewhere and not be found. Hit with a larger caliber bullet traveling faster and carrying more Energy the damage is much more causing "Hydro-shock" to vital organs and a quicker more humane death. [/ QUOTE ] Unfortunately Gary, there are those out there who will try to use small caliber centerfires, "Just because they can". In my opinion that will lead to more lost deer, those hunters will have to then shoot another deer they may also lose, and it could end up have quite a bad effect in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest mims Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question Do yall think bow hunting is ethical? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] Do yall think bow hunting is ethical? [/ QUOTE ] YES, absolutely. You are comparing a .22 caliber projectile that may not expand to a broadhead with a cutting diameter considerably larger, ke is not as important a factor when you consider the cutting diameter of a broadhead in comparison, which in many cases in todays bows will pass completely through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question Yes....Thats exactly why Ethical Bowhunters practice to hit Vital Organs to cause as much damage as possible...as quickly as possible. Killing a deer with Archery equipement comes from your arrows broadhead cutting off the supply of blood to the brain, it cant function, the animal dies. A well placed Bullet carrying much more energy does this damage to tissue quicker...but the end result is the same if the brain cant function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HuntCast Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] Do yall think bow hunting is ethical? [/ QUOTE ] Have you ever even SEEN a bow killed deer??? Are you SERIOUSLY trying to compare the insignificant hole a .22 makes in an animal to the damage a 3 bladed Muzzy broadhead causes?? Thinking like that is crazy, and trying to convince a young hunter that it is similar on a board like this is irresponsible at best. Put it this way........... if I had a choice between being shot in the chest with a .22, or shot in the chest at 20 yards with an arrow, I take the .22 every time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question For anyone who needs to SEE what "Hydro-Shock" is(and why it causes so much damage to surrounding tissue)...this video explains it pretty well IMHO Slow Motion Bullet video (HYDRO-SHOCK) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HuntCast Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question Pretty impressive looking, but I'd like to see what a .22 does when it hits a deers shoulder bone or its equivalent. No one here is saying a .22 CAN'T kill a deer. We are saying it CAN'T kill a deer reliably enough to be used in place of a cartridge designed for bigger game. Heck, if you need proof..... The kid who started this thread shot a deer TWICE with his .22 and after tracking it for 1.5 mile's, never found it. Not too many deer running 1.5 miles with two 30-06 bullets in them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Goose Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question The big diffrence between bowhunting and rifle hunting also is I don't know of to many bowhunters taking 100 yd shots. There's probably a good reason you can't use that gun in 49 other states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] ...No one here is saying a .22 CAN'T kill a deer. We are saying it CAN'T kill a deer reliably enough to be used in place of a cartridge designed for bigger game... [/ QUOTE ] Your exactly right! A .22 will kill a deer...for that matter a Toothpick can kill a deer...if it's sent through a vital organ causing it not to function correctly and to bleed to death...a few Days later The point we are attempting to show is that the deer should be killed as quickly as possible. It's what Ethical Hunters do. Huntcast, Check out that video again and watch the bullet hit the banana...then what happens to it afterwards as it leaves the other side! Just that slight deflection from hitting off-center on the end of the Banana causes the bullet to tumble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question Let me throw my .02 worth in. First, it's not the caliber (diameter) of the bullet that's the problem. It's the lack of energy and penetration of a 22 Hornet, especially if you're shooting factory ammo. I've used a 220 Swift many times on whitetail deer with excellent results, but I'm shooting some specialty handloads that are more appropriate for deer sized game. Almost all of the factory ammo you find for the 22 caliber centerfires is designed for varmint sized game and it just doesn't have the proper bullet weight and structure to perform reliably on larger animals like deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWSmith Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] ...It's the lack of energy and penetration of a 22 Hornet, especially if you're shooting factory ammo... [/ QUOTE ] Your right about that...It's about the Energy! I've seen a 22-250 knock a deer off it's feet and not run another step...thats simply not going to happen with a .22hornet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Re: well dumb question [ QUOTE ] Do yall think bow hunting is ethical? [/ QUOTE ] Of course it's ethical, but only as ethical as the guy/gal who is shooting the bow. This is actually a good comparison to the 22hornet round, since it does little damage when shot at big game animals. An arrow, that has good sharp broad-heads, leaves tons of damage entering and exiting an animal(as much damage than a 30/30). A sharp broad-head may not have as much internal hemorrhage value as a 30/30, but what it lacks in shock-wave, it gains in slicing a nice bloody hole through any vein or artery that is in it's way, compared to a dull one that slices nothing, put pushes it aside instead. A sharp broad-head will leave a gaping hole, not only on one side of the animal, but the other as well. It may be "A Different Kind of Damage that results in Death", but the end results are sure and swift. Unlike a miniature pea shot from a 22hornet , that has little shocking power for Hemorrhage value, and pokes a tiny little whole with little damage.. A dull broad-head, does just the opposite. It's a pretty fair comparison to compare the 22 hornet, to a dull broad-head. Using a dull broadhead would be very unethical, and yet, there are no laws that say it is illegal, accept the laws of common sense, and ethics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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