SaskMan Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 I got my SERM survey last week and was appalled to see that 76% of the whitetails taken in the province by Canadian hunters were bucks, add to that the U.S hunter kills and it'll surely be over 80%. That is just absolutely rediculous. According to the survey there were only 7000 or so does shot. No wonder some areas are getting over run with does. With this overpopulation of does we're ona crash course with disease and winter starvation eventually. I encourage all Sask hunters to fill out their surveys and be like me, enclose a letter asking them to sell more antlerless tags and get rid of the 2nd buck tag. All the 2nd buck tag they are offering is doing is creating a population that is getting way out of whack and encouraging unethical hunters to illegally shoot a 2nd buck. The future depends on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguide Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Another thing they could do is make u turn in two cancelled doe tags before you get your "ONLY' buck tag. But it is getting ridiculous around here -the only does that get shot are the last few days when the road warriors get really desparate. Ty and I usually fill our doe tags first thing in either archery or muzzleloader. Another thing they could do is let nonresidants kill a few does my buddies from B.C. would of gladly took a doe along with their bucks. A little management here in Sask. and we could maybe raise the odd good buck. My Christmas wish-3 doe tags-a ban on road hunting-archery moose season on the central zones-bring it on Santa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CLB Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! I did not fill mine out and they got a nice little note sent back with it saying that they will not be receiving any support or help from me as long as they keep screwing things up as bad as they are in the CWD zones. One of our cattle was hit by a truck in the middle of our farmland and dad had to shoot it. Another landowner has had a solar pannel for an electric fence stolen. Uncountable numbers of tresspassing incidents. Wounded deer all over. Vehicles driving where no vehicle should ever be and the list goes on and on. As far as whitetails go I think that whitetail bucks should be on a draw system here in the SW. The quantiy and quality of bucks seen is terrible and we definately are not over run with does. CLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Just wondering how not sending in the survey is going to help them do better? THey may be screwing things up, but don't you think that sending in the survey with teh letter might be a little more productive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! I would like to see the earn-a-buck program introduced here. It just makes more sense. We (my two hunting buddies and myself) have created our own earn-a-buck program and we are happy with it. I think all the emphasis put on antlers over the years through magazines, TV shows and the internet, is partly responsible for these figures. Lets face it...every hunter would like to shoot that buck of a lifetime, and that buck of a lifetime to many, isn't really all that big... But it is a buck non-the-less. Why not shoot a doe first and earn the right to go after which ever buck you want after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted December 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! on and on about the recommendations I have for them but I won't. Superguide, I'd like to see 2 or even 3 doe tags issued but I really want to have to earn my buck tag. This year I'd have had to let my buck walk being the 2nd day of the season. I'll gladly buy 2 doe tags and shoot them for meat and hold my precious buck tag for the Xmas tree if need be but I really wouldn't want to have to pass an early Oct. monster because I hand't filled my doe tags. Without a doubt they are buggering things up all over the province, each person will have different concerns specific to their area. I just HATE the 2 buck tags, it's killing the potential for great bucks and now the dinky bucks are breeding like crazy screwing up the gene pool. Yesterday at my neighbour's I couldn't help but notice the 2nd either sex tag he had on a nice young 5x5, a mid 150's deer, maybe 3 1/2 at best. He shot it just west of Meadow Lake, on the airport road. Yet another xone 55 "forest tag" buck. It pisses me off so much I'm frowning as I type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! [ QUOTE ] it's killing the potential for great bucks and now the dinky bucks are breeding like crazy screwing up the gene pool [/ QUOTE ] Although I understand what your trying to say and agree that the smaller bucks should be allowed to mature more, I have to disagree with your statement about dinky bucks breeding and screwing up the gene pool, unless your talking about mature dinky bucks verses just imature dinky bucks. ????? because imature dinky bucks will still be passing on good genetics, even though their genetics aren't quite evident yet, if indeed they have those genetics in them to begin with. I'm assuming that is what you mean't. The earn-a-buck program is the only way you are going to get all those die hard antler hunters to do their part. just extra doe tags will not work, because they won't even buy them. IMO. Limiting the buck tags would help to a degree, but you are still going to have an over abundance of does that need to be taken care of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted December 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Buckee, I'm talking about the mature dinky bucks. Ones with 4x4 frames, short tine length etc.. These bucks are being passed up for younger 5x5 bucks simply b/c they are 5x5's not 4x4's. You're correct about the young bucks with good potential, however, many of these are being taken just b/c they are 5x5's, some guys just have that mentality. I agree that we are in for a struggle b/c most guys aren't willing to buy 2 doe tags. The earn a buck program has it's good points and it's bad. The good points are that it'll get rid of excess does, they bad is that many more people won't even buy a licence b/c they don't want to do it plus the fact I mentioned earlier about an early monster buck. I see most of my dandies within the first ciuple days of the muzzleloader season, I'd hate to have to shoot a doe or 2 before I could get a shot at a buck I want. Maybe upping the cost of a buck tag to $50 from $33 and giving away a free doe tag with the sucessful harvest of a buck. That way 2 deer would cost $50, not the current $53 and that way some of the guys who only buy a buck tag may be tempted to shoot a doe as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted December 12, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Now that I've put a bit more thought into it, my idea is clearer. Instead of offering seperate buck and doe tags for $33 and $20 respectively, make it mandatory to buy a combination of tags buck and doe for $50. $50 is still a small price to pay for guys who want to hunt a buck only and in the process maybe we'll get rid of some of those does if guys who normally don't buy a doe tag are now carrying one of them in their pocket as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherguy Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! That makes a lot of sense! I personally think it would really increase your doe harves if suddenly everyone had a doe tag in their pocket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sureshot Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! I tend to agree with CLB on the most part, not enough does in the area to make up a doe zone, we had one a few eyar back before the bad winter but thye have not came back yet to good levels! With the bucks, I do understand your problems, i hear abotu them all the tiem and think its crap,[2 deer season] I would really like a size limut in deer, it will stop alot of the smaller deer being shot and to top it off will stop peopel from seeing a deer jump up at 500 ayrds and openign up couse ti has a rack, and trust me it happens all the time!It also will keep the idiots out of the fields and alsomake the hunters that stick with it more ethical and start to hutn the right ways!! I do not really want to see a draw for whitetail, I think that way ti may be 3-4 years before we can shoot a deer just not the way to go abotu things I think![in my opinion] Ido think they have to do soemthign abotu the CCw areas, all it is doing is bringing in the peopel who want to kill deer from all over, these and not the type of hunters ranchers want on there land on the most part, I know a few from this area who went over and they are the drivers who will not get out of a vehicle if they were stuck, they would use a cell phone to call help lol,Also I think thye have to slow down the anterless mule deer season,down here I have not been seeign hardly any mule deer this year [lost alot last winter] and they still ahd tons of doe tags, gonna take a long time to get back from this year, both the bad winter and all doe tags, and to top it off we had a elk season here and natives from all over sask and alberta have been here the past few months killing everythign that moves, 30 elk were shot and many big deer last week alone I hear! Finally had 6 warden cars in town last week becouse they were pushign a game preserve to get them otu and shootign on the edge, 4 were found dead by ranchers to, alot of new posted land@!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! The only problem with giving away doe tags or making them cheap, or even including them with a buck tag, is that there are too many macho hunters out there that feel it is beneath them to shoot a doe. I think it's called "antler envy" or something close to that...LOL. I've heard a lot of ideas and arguments over the years and to me the earn a buck sounds like the best one, because it would force those yahoo macho types to at least shoot a doe first before pursuing a buck, and in your case maybe dropping the buck tags down as well. But , we're all entitled to our opinions right. In the case of an under population of does, of course earn-a-buck would be out of the question. You'd have to impliment an antler restriction and possibly drop the number of buck tags issued. I just hope for you guys sake that they do something that makes sense, before it's ruined for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguide Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Anothere thing they could do is include a couple free doe tags in the youth package-most young hunters would gladly shoot a couple does. Saskman if they went to earn a buck you'd fill your doe tags in archery-I know a ranch by Meadow Lake you could hunt on lol. Maybe they should go to auxilliary wardens like the mounties did with constables if they can't police things right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CLB Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! fisherguy I have given up on these idiots. We have on more than one occasion reported guys for hunting out of the CWD areas or for illegal activities in the CWD areas. There reply to them hunting ouside of the area was " oh they are close enough". They have been one to several miles from the right area. They never even showed up when the ilegal activity was reported. dad reported a wounded deer for them to come and put down. They said for dad to just put it down which is fine but then they had the nerve to ask him to do their job and remove the head and bring it to them. Dad told them if they wanted the **** thing they could come and get it themselves. They have been told numerous times by numerous people that they way they are handling things in the CWD zones is only going to piss landowners off and cause problems. They never listen. They just keep handing out free tags to every slob who wants one. They can kiss my a**. You have no idea what it is like until you have lived in the area. CLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Man, I wish I had of stayed in school ..I could have been a game warden and sat on my fat butt all day. Actually, I wish I was a game warden...and clean some of the trash hunters up around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BeerSlayer1 Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Here's a question I would have liked to have seen on the survey, "Did the implementation of the Big Game Draw Allocation Fee affect the number of draw applications you sent in this year?" I have to agree about the S.W. not being overrun with white-tails, and couldn't help but notice the heavy pressure from non-resident hunters during the second week of the season. We saw as many Alberta hunters as Saskatchewan ones where we hunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaskMan Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Kbooth is right, Serm has to hear our concerns, I've been emailing them. Minister David Forbes can be reached at [email protected]. I ask all with concerns to get them out to him. Kbooth, there are a pile of places you can shoot 2 bucks, any forest zone and therefore about 15 fringe zones are open season for the slob hunters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sureshot Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Kelly, I hunt this area every year for 6 months and this year I seen at least 40-50% less mule deer, I found dead ones every day otu shed huntign soem days up to 20 near hay stacks! I am talking the wood mnt,scout lake, area, even in your wifes uncle's pasture I did not see near the mules I have in past, this year I was seeign 30-40 a day last year it was not uncommon to see up to 100!Sure the year was different and the pressure form the natives that never knew there was elk here till the draw was put in place and the lack of a warden for 6 months brought out the best in alot of locals!!But I knwo from thsi spring and the amount of twins and the dead deer I found it is going to be hard on them next year if they still keep the huge anterless draws open!! With the natives, i deffinatly am not runnign there huntign down, I am runnign the way "alot" of them do it, it was designed as a TOOL to help feed them and support themselves, not as a contest, they are coming down here with 60 thoasand doller vehicles, trailers, quads and asking if anyone seen a huge bull, it was meant as a food source and not as kill everything that moves,the natives of the past used everythign and killed what was needed and no more , these guys who are comign down do not even look native and I am sure are only 1/8 at the most but got there meti cards, they are killing for the kill not the food!!They do not ahve any respect for the animals anymore, they are here to kill as many as they can and thats all there is to it!!! I remember when I was abotu 16 I seen my first elk down there, I was amazed the herd has coem up to what the wardens say abotu 3-400 ,I watch these animals every day from august to end of deer season ans love every minute of it, they are killing them with no thinking of wat all the massecure will cause in the future of the population!From what i hear there has been overe 50 shot and alot more big mule and whitetails this fall alone, gonna hurt the deer and elk there for many years to come!! Sask man I ahve tried to e-mail 5 different adresses this fall with no ansers, I e-mailed abotu the closing of the non resident coyote which is a crockwhen soemone is willing to pay $40 to hunt them why not when they are paying soemone else 12 a hour plus milage and training to hunt them for the sheep bourd,Our local warden said it was couse it interfered with deer season, well close it till after thenopen it, there are many die hard coyote hunters that would love to try it here were not many people know how to do it without a snowmobile or truck and shotgun!! Second was the massecure of elk down south and all the dead ones being found, I e-maild tellign them to get there @ss in gear and get a warden down here couse every night bow huntign I hear gunshots and the few deer I am seeign have been shot at lots!! Not one anser from anyone!! Just abotu givin up on trying to do anythign , like our retired warden said trying to talk to these guys is like tryign to talk to the wall, he tried all the eyars they had the open seaosn for antelope to tell them what was goign to happen but he knew nothign there experts ahd it all figured out, then the next year after 4 years of 3 tags for everyone you never seen a speedgoat for eyars,they said ti was from disease and coyotes, it was from bad management, i am afraid what is abotu to coem of our whole animal rate if things do not change and soon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BeerSlayer1 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! For anyone who thinks Alberta has it better, I point out that if you wanted to play the tag game, you could take a w.t. buck anywhere, another up north, 2 n.t. does around P.A., a regular archery mule deer anywhere, and as many n.t. mule deer from the unallocated tags (some very good zones had lots of leftovers) as you wanted to buy. That doesn't include the cwd freebies. SERM has been rightfully slammed for the abundance of antelope and mule deer tags which were given out in the early 90's, but I think the situation has really turned around. In the zone I hunt you are still looking at waiting 3 maybe 4 years for a regular mule deer tag, but I've never seen more big bucks than what I'm seeing now. As for antelope, there sure aren't many tags being given out but I was lucky enough to be drawn last year and the hunting was fantastic. There were lots of animals around including several real monsters. The hunting pressure was almost zero and the animals were calm and relaxed. If I had a choice of being drawn every 10 years and having the chance to harvest a real monster without much other hunting pressure or being drawn every 3 years and having to compete with more hunters for fewer and smaller animals, I'd take the 1 in 10 year hunt. Here's another opinion: The simplest, most effective way to improve hunting would be to pass a law against discharging a firearm within 200 meters of your vehicle. It's an instant end to road hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superguide Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! Amen to that post about road hunting-we hunt mulies down by Gardiner Dam and I can't get over how wild the whitetails are they must get chased big time in whitetail season at least in 55 there's still lots of bush u can't drive around so the roadies can't chase them frm bluff to bluff or slough to slough. I can't wait to draw for antelope I was last year but couldn't go because of the BSE deal draining the bank account. It's amazing the quality of hunting we do have up here in spite of everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest CLB Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! You are seeing a lot of big mule deer being taken right now but the numbers of big mule deer will go down in the near future. They have doubled or more than doubled the number of either sex tags in most zones and are giving out tons of antlerless tags. Mule deer populations are going to be severley depressed if they continue to issue the tags like they are. Right now we are still seeing the benifits of low tag numbers for the last several years. In alot of zones guys in A and B pool are being drawn. There are still zones like 10 and 24 that will take at least 4 years to draw but that is because there are alot of guys putting in for those popular zones. The CWD zones will be almost void of deer like they want if the slaughter continues the way it is.( still not sure why zone 12 was open as there has never been a case of CWD been made public from that zone) The only thing that may save a small population in these zones is pissed off landowners. Whitetails in the SW corner recieve a tremendous amount of pressure because everybody and there dog can buy a tag. The country is so open that the bucks hardly ever make it past 1-2 years old. Superguide is right when he says they get chased. Every slough and bluff of trees down here has multiple sets of tire tracks around it. I cannot speak for other areas of the province but the quality of deer to hunt here in the SW is not getting better and will be dropping in the future. CLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BeerSlayer1 Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: SERM surveys!! The last newsletter I received from the SWF mentioned a cwd case north of Cabri (no exact location), maybe that's why zone 12 was opened up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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