VermontHunter Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 OK guys and gals the hunting season is over here in Vermont and it's time to start planning for next fall season. I really want to purchase some food plot seed to thank VTbowman for letting me hunt his property this year, and would like some of your input on what to purchase for seed. This is what he has already 5 real big medows that are planted with I believe is alfalfa that is cut and harvested by a local farmer that is bordered by largely maple hardwoods with a good amount of evergreen cover. Keep in mind this property is prime farmland with great soil. This is what I was thinking Whitetail Institute has what they call the Complete Imperial Seed Pak, which includes the following : 1 Imperial Whitetail Clover Sample 1 No-Plow Sample 1 Alfa-Rack Sample 1 Extreme Sample 1 Video 1 Information Pack With Decal One Year Subscription To The "Whitetail News" Each sample pack covers 100 sq. ft. Shawn has expressed is liking to the NO-PLOW, which I like myself do to the ease of distribution without equipment. Any and all opinions are welcome and needed since I'm a rookie when it comes to foodplot management. If I have incorrectly described Shawns property I'm sure he will add to this info. I will be eagerly awaiting to see your input and thanks.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Vermont---don't expect much seed in those 100 sp feet samples. The are in tiny envelopes just like the seeds you buy when you want to plant a garden. Enough to plant a 10 ft by 10 ft piece of ground. Now, their video is a really nice video of the how to of food plotting and there are some good articles in the Whitetail News. I enjoy reading the Whitetail News--it is geared toward their products but still has some great information. I have never planted No-Plow but just remember the more you put into your plot (work) the more you get out of it. You can scrape the leaves off the area and throw the seed down and get some growth but not like when you work the ground. I have done the no-till method in some small plot with some success. You need to remove all debris (leaves, rocks, sticks) so the seed will have good soil contact. What I also like to so is spray the area a couple weeks prior with roundup to kill any existing vegetation. In my opinion the most important aspect of the no-till method is waiting for rain. You need to broadcast your seed either during or right before a rain. The rain will help drive the seed into the wet ground and splash soil onto the seed. This will really improve your germination rate. I don't broadcast fertilizer at the time of no-till planting. I like to wait until the seeds have germinated then broadcast some triple 19 at 200#/acre. If your doing a smaller area increase the seeding rate by 50% and if possible take a rake with you and roughen up the soil the best you can. Some seeds that I have had success with doing the no-till method is red clover (my favorite), brassicas, wheat, and rye. you might e-mail Oneida man and see if he has any advise using the no-till. good luck todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Ok your right I can't let this one slip by... LOL Luke is correct. The propety is dairy farm land, however the cows have not been in these field for decades. The land has been planted with cow corn for a few year and more recently in red clover/alfalfa/rye-grass which has been here for 3 years now. I was told it was very high grade seed by my father-in-law who's friend farms it. However the woods is where I was thinking of doing the food plots. The fields are set up for the farmer and I am not planting out there at all. The woods are 90% maples with small groves of bitternut hickories and birches. No oaks and some pines but not many. Scrub apple tree litter the edges and ditches but have not produced many apple to my knowledge. I am taking steps to get them going too. Quite a few log roads and steep rocky terrain. Hense why I am thinking of "No Plow". Basically it is unplowable due to the boulders and larger outcropping of rocks, ledge, etc. However their are some log roads that could produce some nice small plots under key stand locations. I plan to rake away the leaf litter and fertilize if needed, seed, and perhaps rerake, but in no way can this terrain be turned over or plowed. Ok thats it. Oh except thank you to VermontHunter for his generous offer to help with our QDM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted December 12, 2004 Report Share Posted December 12, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices try to pic a spot where you will get at least 3 to 4 hours of sunlight. That will also help with the success of the plot. I'm sure the deer use the farmers big field but probably more at night. Smaller hunting plots hidden in the trees make a great evening spot to ambush a big buck. The deer will use these smaller plots before heading to the big field. good luck todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Hey Doc he has a chainsaw...light won't be an issue if he lets me use it....LOL. I knew I left out some important stuff on the land aspect...LOL.. The packet seeds were so I could get the video and Litature mainly...but wonder if a variety of seed is a better choice that a bunch of the samething ??? My wife has aloted me $100.00 for the seed so I guess we can do alot with this amount..labor is of no issue and I have a nice White rear tine tiller if we need to break some ground, it's pretty manuverable in tight places.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Might check out some of these hamannfarm blends, or ask Martin(OniedaMan) for his suggestion. Been really happy here with the results from our trefoil grower plot. Have also had great success with pennington seed blends. Our rackmaster clover mix we planted last fall is really getting hit hard, the deer are mowing the clovers in that plot down. Have never used any imperial products, but have heard good things about em. Would stay away from bio-logic products, have had very poor results from the seeds I have used produced by them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 13, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices OniedaMan, where are ya man !!! Seems you're the foremost expert on this topic and would greatly apreciate any input you may have... If VTbowman and I are going to do this I want to do it right. One question tho would it be advisable to bring in a conservation biologist for some suggestions ??? or just go on what we know about the area ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerClay Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Pick something with a good (hope I spell this right) Alsike Clover. We bought it at our local feed store for half the price of those big name brands. Clover is always the first to pop up in the spring and the last to go in the fall. We planted some in our plot which is in the adirondacks and the deer went ga-ga for it. Tried the Biolo#$%& stuff and it died the first year. We have some great pictures from the trail cam to prove our results. I will never plant anything else again. Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSU_Seminole Posted December 13, 2004 Report Share Posted December 13, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices VTHunter, I have personally used no plow from the white tail institute. I've come to believe that brassica has very little attraction to deer. I've had a few hunters tell me that before, I didn't believe them & had to learn the hard way myself. Just because deer in New Zeland eat brassica doesn't mean wild deer in North America with other forage choices such as acorns & corn around will eat it. No plow is a brassica mix. It's very easy to plant & it shoots up like crazy. Just follow the instructions on the back of the bag, but the deer just do not eat the stuff when its other forage around. I've planted 4 1/2 acre plots of it at different locations the last couple of years & like I said the deer won't eat the stuff. They munch on it very little but that's about it. Brassica is very bitter to whitetails until you get a really hard freeze & in some cases they still won't eat it unless its a last resort. You being in VT they may eat it because it gets so cold there. We aren't getting a hard freeze until this week, but the season is over Jan 1. So far the best plot seeds I've found to be are Buck Forage Oats & Tecomate's max attract. I planted a 1/2 acre of Buck Forage Oats this year to test it out & its droppings & tracks in and all around the plot & I've seen several does & 1 nice buck wander out in it right at last shooting light. The max attract is doing well to. BF is easy to plant. Just disk the ground about 3 inches deep, fertilize then cover the seed with a drag. I did just what their website suggested. I planted BF Oct 1st next to 2 other plots. I have 3 1/2 acre strips of max attract, BF, & no plow planted next to each other with the BF planted in the middle, the deer clearly prefer the BF & Max attract. Here is their website for further info. www.buckforage.com Check out the BF Faq section. Its pretty interesting & it makes some pretty bold claims about clover & brassica "attracting" deer during the hunting season. They made a believer out of me. I'm not going to plant anymore brassica for fall attraction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices FSU----I think the brassicas work better in the northern part of the county--or at least where you get a few good hard freezes. The freezing causes the starch to turn into sugars and then makes the brassicas very palatable. I have had great success with the brassicas--especially purple top turnips. After they devoured the greens they ate the turnips. Sometimes it takes the deer a little while to get used to them and realize they are food. Brassicas will always be included in my fall/winter plots. Vermont---sometimes Oneida doesn't feel comfortable pushing his products on realtree. He just doesn't want people thinking he is trying to get free advertising or take advantage of the free forums. Class Act! E-mail him direct about your questions and he will answer them promptly. He has been a great help with my success. Here is his e-mail address: [email protected] you can also check out his site at www.hamannfarms.com good luck todd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices THANKS dogdoc, I'm on this right now. Of course Shawn will have final say but I'm real sure the deer will benifit greatly if we make the right choices. I can understand and respect that decision from Oneida. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSU_Seminole Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Todd you're probably right. Like I said, we aren't getting weather below 32 until this week. Last night it was 29 & that's the coldest its been all hunting season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 14, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices FSU_Seminole, I can send some of our cold weather to ya...LOL darn it's got real cold here in the last few days.....just think it wasn't but a week ago Shawn and I were complaining about the warm weather, that will teach us.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 15, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices OniedaMan, Thanks for the help, I'm sure Shawn and I can make great use of your suggestions, and I'm definately going to have a soils sample done as you suggested... Thanks Again you've been a big help.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul23 Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices yea it's freezin here ny 7 degrees at 10AM yea good thing I had a final this morning so I didn't have to freeze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices [ QUOTE ] You may want to try a biologic brand like Full Draw. [/ QUOTE ] Would not recommend it. The deer here never touched the full draw here and have heard the same from many others who have also tried their products. I personally have not had good results from any of the biologic products that I have tried aside from their fertilizer. Glad to see you got in touch with Martin. You will not be disappointed if you chose his seed blends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Thanks everyone for the info...Shawn and I can't wait to see the results for next season...Hopefully a better season than the last few years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices What suggestions? What advice? You wanna share these with me Luke??? LOL I know anything we do will just make it that much better. Although I know the deer love the fields the farmer plants, the woods has nothing in it that will draw them in. Young maple leaves for browse but thats it. No nut or acorns the deer eat at all. Although I have a ton of bitternut hickory, the deer do not eat it, or if they do, very very little.. The squirrels love them though those sum-minna batches... Oh and Luke will not take my advice about their being no way to till these log roads. Oh well he can try it if he likes... Last I knew tillers don't like rocks.... Heh heh heh.. Luke forward any info your getting so "we" can make some descissions... (Luke-is my speeling ok?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices [ QUOTE ] What suggestions? What advice? [/ QUOTE ] Suggested hamannfarms trefoil clover blends and rackmaster clovers. If you buy seed from Martin, you can count on it being good seed and he will help uyou out with any quesitons you may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices i have 4 or 5 buddies that have exclusive rights to a 125 acre tract of farm in Jefferson county Ohio. they finally found a farmer to work their tillable land and are looking to put in about 15 acres of food plots. i'll take William and Todd's recommendation and recommend Hamman farms to them. good luck with your plots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Just had to bring up the spelling crap didn't ya ?? LOL Didn't you hear I have a tiller that chews up rock and makes compost out of it...LOL Like you said you'll make the seed choice's you want and I'll buy it... man you're tough on a guy.. LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTbowman Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Well like we talked about last night in my kitchen, a good dirt rake will turn over the composted leaves and tree debris, and rocks and will be just as much work then getting a tiller up there and breaking it... If we were going to do something at field level then by all means we would break ground and my neighbor has a tractor I can use anytime for that. Thats how I brush hogged those spots up there.... Another point is the plots are not going to be that big. Maybe 50 to 75 yards long by 15 feet at best... 3 or 4 of them in key locations... But I always say work smarter not harder so we will take a walk and pick out some spots and plan from there. As far as what seed. I am leaving that up the Oneida. Hes the man... Just as long as he knows where and how we are planting... Most food plots are in the saem soil as a field or clear cut forest section. We are not doing either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhtr1 Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Im not sure about up there. But if you are planting a summer crop then the best I have found is American Joint Vetch mixed with Alyce clover. High protein and the deer love it. They will be out in the plots in the middle of the day, even if it is 90 degs. For the winter the best I have found is buck forage oats mixed with crimson clover and some white clover thrown in. They tear this up also. I have tried so many different things that I could write a book. The most important thing above the seed is the soil prep. It does not matter what you use if the soil is not right. Get soil samples if you are not sure about the fertility. At least get the Ph checked. Lime is very important. Break the soil up if possible. To do it right it cost us about 50 bucks per acre. Hope I helped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: Food plot seed choices Fertility of the soil won't be in question as much as the acidityand PH. For turning the soil over this won't be much of a chore either, a little arm muscle with the rake will take care of that. I'm sure VTbowman already has seed types in mind. As to summer feeding he has a farmer taking care of the large medows during this time. This seems like it's going to be a easy enough task to take care of but we've all said that before haven't we ?? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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