Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[slughunter]

This is my testemonial for establishing a QDM program. For the past 3 years Me and a freind of mine have been manageing a 133 acre farm with land all around it that doesnt get touched by humans at all. Every night is fun because you always see deer and there is never a boring moment. we have a 90 acre sanctuary and lots of food sources. This season is the one were we have hunted it hard and the results have shown. my buddy took a 186 4/8 inch buck and the other day I got a nice 10 pointer (score is unknown).

So my point is that if you have the right conditions to establish a QDM program there is no reason not to, the results will show.

-shane

[wtnhunt]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

So my point is that if you have the right conditions to establish a QDM program there is no reason not to, the results will show.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is a key factor right there. I sure wish the people hunting around me would be more willing to work together, but that just wont ever happen so my efforts really are beginning to seem useless.

[nutz4bucks]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

Alot of talk about bucks. But where is the talk about does. thats the other half of qdm isn't it..... Or are you just a trophy hunter...

[hoytguy08]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

i wish i had land that manageable but my family only owns 40 acres and the surrounding lands are shotgun hunted hard and they kill anything and everything, i shoot several does every year and wait for mature bucks , but its hard to do when a lot of the bucks are killed before they are mature

[Gator]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

If I had land I could manage, then I would TRY and do that, but since I don't, ain't gonna happen!!!!!!!!

[PAstringking]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

If I had land I could manage, then I would TRY and do that, but since I don't, ain't gonna happen!!!!!!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

same here. i own 80 have access to 120 or something like that and as soon as i leave the locals push my property and shoot everything.

legal or illegal...i doesnt matter

i wish i could own a ton of acres and keep it untouched.

[Randy]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

Nobody here mentions even talking to the neighbors. If everybody assumes that the neighbors aren't for it it never will happen. The neighbors probably want a better deer herd too but say, "the neighbors shoot anything."

[wtnhunt]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

Nobody here mentions even talking to the neighbors. If everybody assumes that the neighbors aren't for it it never will happen. The neighbors probably want a better deer herd too but say, "the neighbors shoot anything."

[/ QUOTE ]

You have not read many of my posts in here. I have attempted to work with some of the neighbors around me. One up the road will tell you he hunts for meat, he will shoot at anything he sees, same neighbor fussed at me for checking my deer in before taking it to him to process it for me. I process my own now.

Other neighboring leaseholders I have had several discussions with. The guy who has the lease in his name directly behind me where there are supposed to be just 3 guys hunting, told me they were not shooting little deer they wanted to manage the property. Funny thing was after our discussion I watched several 1.5 year olds cross the river going to them only to be shot after I passed them up. Had another neighbor that does not deer hunt tell me straight up that I was pretty gullible if I believed those boys would pass on anything. They told me that just so I would not shoot the deer, so they could . Same group, the boy I talked to last in the group, his brother on Thanksgiving day about 3 years ago shoots 4 times and I see a spike walk across my field a while later. The spike was young and had been shot, I called them and he said his brother did not even look for the deer, but that he had in fact shot at the young spike, this just a week or so after him telling me they were going to pass the little ones . That spike had a chunk of flesh I could see looked like he skinned high above the shoulder, dont know how the deer was not spined, but he walked on across the field and I noticed he had been hit right as he was walking into the woods when I put my binos on him.

Property next to that my sister in laws husband used to work for the man who is hunting that land, and he does not own or lease it, but supposedly has permission. While I have never talked to the man myself, my sister in laws husband tells me that he shoots anything that moves, and I posted not too long back about this sorry slob. My wife used to work with the mans wife and she told my wife pretty well the same thing. The guy repeatedly shoots multiple shots, loses a lot of deer and continues to shoot them right here behind my property .

[ousoonerfan22]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

Same here wtnhunt the neighbors always shoot at something in the mornings and evenings during the gun season,we have wondered how they could be seeing that many deer especially bucks when some days aren't doe days.Then they will allow others to hunt after their freezer is full so the young bucks don't have a chance.

There are some around here who would like to let the young bucks grow but you always hear the same thing "if I don't shoot him somebody else will" so deer management has to start some where.

I've convinced my son to let some of the bucks walk if he wants to have a chance at a mature buck.

I wish others would do the same.

Brian

[Guest anderson3]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

Keep one thing in mind about passing on smaller bucks: With or without QDM, you are less likely to shoot a big buck if you fill your tag with the first little one that shows up.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

you are less likely to shoot a big buck if you fill your tag with the first little one that shows up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, and in situations like here with neighboring shooters like we have here, if you pass up all the little(2.5 year old and younger) bucks you see, chances are you will go with an empty freezer year after year. Best chance here of getting a good deer are before the gun seasons open, if you have not taken one by then, the odds of killing anything really plummit.

[MUDRUNNER]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

There is no doubt that under the right conditions QDM works great,but much like wtnhunt,our conditions are far from ideal.About 4 years ago I decided to not shoot 1 1/2 old bucks any more,and have only killed two bucks since, including this year.It's something I have no problem dealing with as long as I put some doe meat in the freezer.On one property I hunt me and my cousin are the only ones with permission, and he's been using the same rule as me for 2 1/2 and up.Since we've been doing this I haven't seen any increase in the number of big bucks at all.We don't really do this really for management,but because we like to shoot a little bigger deer.

We have a few things going against us.

#1-we don't own the property, and the owners don't want us to put food plots in...they keep the property a certain way and that's how they like it.No biggy,I'm just happy to have a place to hunt.

#2-Our properties are small.One is 30 acres,and the other is about 100,and both have heavy hunting pressure on surrounding properties,especially during gun season.

If I had my own property,and it was relatively large I would absolutely strictly manage it,but odds are it will never happen,so for the moment the 1 1/2 olds get a free pass till next year.

[Guest anderson3]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

Yep, and in situations like here with neighboring shooters like we have here, if you pass up all the little(2.5 year old and younger) bucks you see, chances are you will go with an empty freezer year after year. Best chance here of getting a good deer are before the gun seasons open, if you have not taken one by then, the odds of killing anything really plummit.

[/ QUOTE ]

That is often true, wtn. My home property is about like yours in that regard. That's why we shoot does to fill the freezer. Lots of folks who are extremely pleased with QDM programs do not shoot a buck every year. If your definition or expectation of deer management is to get a nice buck every year, then you would certainly need good conditions (if not a high fence) to pull that off.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

You are right anderson, but unfortunatley after 6 years of attempting to take as many or more does than bucks, we know have a concern that our overall population might be in trouble. With a low fawn rate this past spring and the number of does in the area being the least we have seen in a number of years, we have decided to let the does walk unless we had signifcant reason to believe there were more does around.

[LETMGROW]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

Frankly, And I realize I am going to really get blasted for this statement, there is only one way the smaller bucks will be allowed to grow up. We must all push for laws regarding antler restrictions. Any other method is not going to be effective except on maybe privately owned or leased land. Then only if you have total cooperation from your neighbors. I personally as a QDMA member hate to say this but I am finding this more true every day. I sincerely thought the seminars and education we have brought forth would have had an impact on peoples thinking. If in fact it has made a difference I am not seeing a result.

The QDMA is a great organization in my opinion, however it only boasts of 40,000 members. This may seem like a lot, but given the number of deer hunters across this country, it is a very small number.

Not long ago I would have argued education was much better than legislation. The reality in my mind, is some people are not willing to learn or practice what they have learned.

Take this from here if you like. I'm just expressing my opinion.

[wtnhunt]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

I would be all for antler restrictions here. I think it would make a huge difference.

[Brianxt]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

you guys won't like thisd but oh well.Killing tomorrows trophy today.If you let a small buck walk around here the around the hill will likely kill it and not even tag it.

[TxBowHunter]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

One of the bigs things are is kill does the does are teririble right now just taking over

[TxBowHunter]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

My Uncle bought some land from a guy that leased to some metroplex people and they just overhunted the crap out of it..And he fed protein last summer and had 4 to 5 180+ bucks..Thats how mangament works.

[MUDRUNNER]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

We must all push for laws regarding antler restrictions

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not going to blast you,but I will disagree.It's just my opinion,but I believe any type of AR should be the landowners respondsabilty to enforce.If you hunt on his property,you follow his rules or your gone.The landowner should be able to do what he chooses,he does own it after all.

If I am hunting a property that's not managed I don't expect the other hunters who I share it with to use the same standards as me just so I can shoot a wall hanger every year.

I had an experience hunting with my grandpa a few years ago.After deer hunting for 15 years he finally shot a deer, a little 3 pointer,and he hasn't killed one since,and it was special for me because I was with him at the time.It is one of my more memorable moments hunting,and if we had a state mandated AR,it would be a memory I would have never had.

[Gator]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

We must all push for laws regarding antler restrictions

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, I'm gonna blast you. What gives YOU the right to tell ME that I need to push for LAWS regarding AR's? maybe I don't want AR's here in Oklahoma, or in Alabama , or ANY WHERE else. If I wanna shoot a small buck, that is MY choice, and ONLY my choice, noone else made me......... I don't want ANYONE telling ME what I can/can't kill on MY property, that's why I bought it. If I CHOOSE to manage it, I will, but for an OUTSIDER to come in and tell me what I can/can't kill, well, THAT just doesn't set well with me.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

I don't want ANYONE telling ME what I can/can't kill on MY property, that's why I bought it.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's exactly what the State of Oklahoma is doing now with seasons and bag limits. Otherwise, you could shoot as many deer, at any time, of whatever sex you wanted.

I view AR's as just another type of bag limit.

[Gator]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't want ANYONE telling ME what I can/can't kill on MY property, that's why I bought it.

[/ QUOTE ]

But that's exactly what the State of Oklahoma is doing now with seasons and bag limits. Otherwise, you could shoot as many deer, at any time, of whatever sex you wanted.

I view AR's as just another type of bag limit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no, EVERY state has a bag limit, do they not? But does every state have AR's, NO, and to me, that's the way it SHOULD be. People hunt for different reasons, AR's may limit some of them folks on what they can/can't shoot, and in the long run, may add to the poaching going on in areas.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

[ QUOTE ]

Yes and no, EVERY state has a bag limit, do they not?

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as I know, yes. Some are quite liberal, allowing up to one buck per day.

[ QUOTE ]

But does every state have AR's, NO, and to me, that's the way it SHOULD be.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that AR's need to be applied on a case by case basis. In fact, it would be best to apply them regionally, rather than to an entire state, unless the deer herd in the entire state has similar characteristics and needs. Keep in mind that some areas may not NEED AR's. The purpose of Antler Restrictions is to improve the age structure of the bucks in a particular area. If the age structure (usually determined by harvest data) consists almost entirely of 1.5 and 2.5 year old deer, then AR's are an effective tool to increase the average age of the buck population. If there is already a good mixture of different age class bucks, then AR's probably won't result in any significant benefits.

[ QUOTE ]

People hunt for different reasons, AR's may limit some of them folks on what they can/can't shoot, and in the long run, may add to the poaching going on in areas.

[/ QUOTE ]

Holy cow! I can't imagine that some new regulation is going to turn an otherwise ethical hunter into a poacher!! If it does, what does that say about that person's character to begin with?

Gator, if I'm understanding you correctly, you're not arguing about the benefits (or lack of) of AR's from the scientific standpoint of what may (or may not) be best for the deer herd. You are arguing it from the standpoint that personal freedoms should take precedence over the desires of others to manipulate the characteristics of the deer herd in your area. And that's perfectly understandable.

I don't think there's much argument about whether or not properly devised AR's will increase the average age of the bucks in a heavily hunted herd. The debate lies in whether or not individuals are willing to accept the necessary restrictions on their activities to achieve those results.

[Gator]

Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!!

When I say poacher, I am meaning someone may in fact shoot a smaller buck that may be illegal IF AR's are implemented, due that being the only deer/buck they see that year. That's what I meant by that statement!!!

You got it right, I'm not arguing the benefit of AR's or lack thereof, but that AR's should NOT impede on a person's freedom to choose what he/she has set as standards for a legal buck. Now if the population DID get out of hand, then I MAY be for it, but until then, to implement AR's to get a better deer herd, specifically bucks, no, I am NOT in favor of it.