wtnhunt Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! Personally I cannot speak for what other states should do, but I would like to see AR's implemented here. While it will not stop any of the poaching, it would give some of the smaller bucks we pass up a better opportunity to make it to the next year, and that would make it so much easier for us to let them walk, if we thought they might really have a chance. If these deer here could just get some age on them, they could be some really nice deer. Unfortunately we have way too many hunters in a small area, where there used to not be many at all and many of them are shooting the first thing they see. I am finding that there are more who are coming in and ending up where they are not supposed to be as well, which is really disheartening. Caught a trespasser just yesterday who shot or shot at a very young buck that my wife passed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxBowHunter Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! Thats kind of like in texas we have some people who hunt right next to us and they shoot anything that walks in.Little bitty bucks that would have a chance for real maturity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ousoonerfan22 Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! I live and hunt in Oklahoma and I wish the wildlife department would have the antler restriction here.I would like to hunt mature bucks and would rather shoot a doe instead of a 1 1/2 old spike or forked horn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! I have a great idea for Gator and mudrunner. Let's just eliminate all laws and shoot all the deer which move. No holds barred. In a short time we won't have to be concerned with poachers or anybody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] I have a great idea for Gator and mudrunner. Let's just eliminate all laws and shoot all the deer which move. No holds barred. In a short time we won't have to be concerned with poachers or anybody else. [/ QUOTE ] Now there is a dumb idea, but I guess since I don't agree with you on your views of QDMA, that is to be expected. But let me ask you this, what gives you or anyone else the right to dictate what size buck I or anyone else can kill? That is why I am AGAINST AR's. I am SICK AND TIRED of people wanting to tell me what I should/shouldn't take as a deer. Now I have NOTHING against anyone practicing it on THEIR land, but when they wanna impose it on MY land, or public land, NO THANKS. Remember, people hunt for different reasons. What some consider a trophy, others may not, a trophy is in the eye of the beholder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MUDRUNNER Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] I have a great idea for Gator and mudrunner. Let's just eliminate all laws and shoot all the deer which move. No holds barred. In a short time we won't have to be concerned with poachers or anybody else. [/ QUOTE ] Yea,yea,yea....I have an authority problem.I hate being forced to do something new that I'm not used to...just ask my wife. For years I didn't wear my seat belt just because it was a new law and I was being forced to wear it or get a ticket.I guess I've always been like that. I never said anything about eliminating laws,everyone here knows that hunting laws are for conservation and safety.I do disagree that we need more laws made just so it's easier for you to shoot a big buck every year. Like I said,I have a self imposed restriction that I don't shoot anything that's not at least 2 1/2,which leaves a limited number of deer that fall into that catagory on the small propeties I hunt.Like I said before,I don't expect all the other hunters in the area to use the same rule just so I can bring one to the taxidermist every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leatherneck Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! uuuuummmmmm..........SPAM!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] uuuuummmmmm..........SPAM!!!! [/ QUOTE ] Followed by a drink of water from my Clorox jug!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! You know Gator, you do have land to manage. In fact I am sure Oklahoma has quite a bit of state owned land opened to hunting. You said yourself. " If I had land I could manage then I would try and do that, but since I don't, it ain't gonna happen!!!!!!!! I find this a contradictory statement. If you had AR'S in place YOUR state land would be making a step forward toward protecting younger bucks. Your argument that poachers will shoot a smaller buck, is a water bucket with a few holes in it! If they are poachers they are already hunting illegaly. Any rules aren't going to affect their actions. Above all, lets keep this discussion on a friendly basis. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thayer Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! You can't tell me ar's are good for the herd...high grading is the first problem, then the mature six pointer is another...I don't like em for the guy that does manage his property for age...antler's don't mean age... But I think gator needs to look at his signature and read it thoroughly... AR's are a speed limit for those who don't understand management. Traditional management is gone, and should have been gone for a long time. Doe management...either population elimination or age discretion should be implemented everywhere. I don't like the idea of mountain lions and black bears being introduced to our ever over populating society. Many in Missouri are getting trail cam pics of bears and lions and the MDC is talking this down...why...insurance companies are paying thru the nose for deer vehicle collisions and they want it stopped...sooooo You institute ar's to have the brown and down hunter's focus on the does, you have the weekend hunter's take a doe, because they don't want tag soup. You have the ar's to stop and make everyone a bit more safe, how?? Now you have to actually look and make that decision. Is it good for everyone...absolutely not! You have to start somewhere when the litigators are involved. Liberal doe tags did not do it here. Deer numbers continue to rise and it won't be long before the whole state is under the ar 4 point rule... I feel sorry for the people that feel they are being wronged by their wildlife agencies..but they are under the gun to improve an ever increasing problem. It is not about the antlers folks...it is about the green backs! (not ducks, either) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! So I come in here making a statement, and now I am WHINING???? Oh boy, someone been smelling to much gunpowder this year Why should I manage state owned land? Say I let a 1.5yr old 6pt walk past me, only to be shot by someone else, and that is the ONLY buck I see for a year? What have I accomplished, NOTHING, NOTHING AT ALL. The poacher comment was just that, a comment, and a broad one at that. I just don't think AR;s are all that great of an idea, and I will NOT support them in a state that already has a good buck herd. Maybe instead of AR's, that MORE people need to be educated on taking a doe. I KNOW there are those out there that would just as soon eat a tag as kill a doe, now what does THAT accomplish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! Let me set the record straight. I am NOT against AR's from MY viewpoint, but from the viewpoint of others that may not agree with them. I think a "earn a buck" would do the state SO much better, as we have WAY more does than bucks here, or at least it looks that way, that we need to mange the herd first, and get the ratio a touch better I am DONE with this conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] I am DONE with this conversation. [/ QUOTE ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] You can't tell me ar's are good for the herd...high grading is the first problem, then the mature six pointer is another [/ QUOTE ] Don't confuse AR's with trophy management. Those are two completely separate ideas. AR's are intended to increase the average AGE of the bucks in a herd. This should also have a positive effect on the average antler size too, since age is one of the 3 ingredients necessary to growing larger antler. But it is NOT the most effective tool to grow large antlered bucks. OLDER bucks, yes, but there's no guarantee that it will result in more "trophy sized" deer in the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! Only problem with ar's that I honestly see is that without a spread minimum you would have some 7 and 8 pointers that are 1.5 year olds getting whacked and prematurely removed from the gene pool. Those 1.5 year olds in most cases would have great potential. This guy here, a 1.5 year old with super potential got a pass from me with the muzzleloader on the opening weekend as I shot him with the video camera instead. He has seven points and would be a really nice deer if he could make it just 2 more years to 3.5, but I really am doubtful that will ever happen around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FSU_Seminole Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! The think all state's should have some sort of AR. Goodness knows we need one here in my part of SC really bad!!!! Just my 2 cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] Only problem with ar's that I honestly see is that without a spread minimum you would have some 7 and 8 pointers that are 1.5 year olds getting whacked and prematurely removed from the gene pool. [/ QUOTE ] I also think a spread minimum is the best type of AR from a purely biological standpoint. That will protect almost all of the 1.5 year olds, but most bucks, even those old 6 points mentioned before, will eventually hit the minimum spread requirement and will then be eligable for taking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAstringking Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! the spread minimum is a great idea and its also good not to shoot deer unless they are older but here in PA and probably many other states, the hunters just arent educated enough to make those choices in the field. Until you reeducate all the hunters in the US you will have people taking inferior deer. the "its brown its down theory" is still alive and well here in PA and i wish it was $1000 fine for every person that makes a bad choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Only problem with ar's that I honestly see is that without a spread minimum you would have some 7 and 8 pointers that are 1.5 year olds getting whacked and prematurely removed from the gene pool. [/ QUOTE ] I also think a spread minimum is the best type of AR from a purely biological standpoint. That will protect almost all of the 1.5 year olds, but most bucks, even those old 6 points mentioned before, will eventually hit the minimum spread requirement and will then be eligable for taking. [/ QUOTE ]The older they get, the smarter they get. After escaping one gun season, chances are good they'll make it through another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QDMAworks4me Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] Only problem with ar's that I honestly see is that without a spread minimum you would have some 7 and 8 pointers that are 1.5 year olds getting whacked and prematurely removed from the gene pool. [/ QUOTE ] IMO Under traditional management I think that most of those 8 points would be shot anyways. Not every 7 or 8 point like the one in your picture will be shot and the longer AR's go on the more poeple will realize that there is a potential for a bigger buck to walk in front of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thayer Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! I would go along with the spread along with a point restriction...but then aren't we trophy managing? Hard to argue about that one...I wish they would give you a get out of jail free card for those bucks that are 3.5 but don't meet the minimum point restriction. It should be that way...if they are really trying to get the bucks into an older age category. Sorry Gator...just have heard way too many arguments like yours and I just get a bit wound up when people worry about others shooting their deer...just doesn't add up down the road. We had several 1.5 10 pointers on the lease this year, and one of our younger guys took one...which is perfectly fine...he needs to get his taste of deer hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAstringking Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] We had several 1.5 10 pointers on the lease this year, and one of our younger guys took one...which is perfectly fine...he needs to get his taste of deer hunting. [/ QUOTE ] at my camp it is the same way. kids who havent taken a buck are allowd to take whatever. when they shoot their first buck it doesnt matter how big it is. the smile on their face is priceless!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 14, 2006 Report Share Posted December 14, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Only problem with ar's that I honestly see is that without a spread minimum you would have some 7 and 8 pointers that are 1.5 year olds getting whacked and prematurely removed from the gene pool. [/ QUOTE ] I also think a spread minimum is the best type of AR from a purely biological standpoint. That will protect almost all of the 1.5 year olds, but most bucks, even those old 6 points mentioned before, will eventually hit the minimum spread requirement and will then be eligable for taking. [/ QUOTE ]The older they get, the smarter they get. After escaping one gun season, chances are good they'll make it through another . [/ QUOTE ] Problem with that is around here at least, is that there are very few that ever make it out of the first season. A point and spread restriction would without a doubt increase the numbers of bucks surviving their first season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! Thayer, I don't think you are understanding what I am getting at, or maybe I failed to explain it..... I THINK I had it all in my head, and failed to type it out here!!! But here goes I do prefer to shoot does, would much rather do that than shoot a small buck. But I also DO realize that others hunt for different reasons, and don't feel that I should impede on them, just because I may want to see more and bigger bucks......... Does that make ANY sense? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Danbo Posted December 15, 2006 Report Share Posted December 15, 2006 Re: Theres no reason not to manage!!!!!!! Go get'em gator. Limited Buck and Doe tags is the way to manage. NOT ARs!!! If I want to shoot a spike, so be it. It's my buck tag. If the state wants to mangage the herd to support 5 1/2 year old deer it can't be done by AR. In NY, the liberal state of the Clintons, everyone gets at least 2 buck tags, 1 doe and possibly 1 or 2 more doe tags (simplified). The bucks don't have a chance! I'd like to see a minimum 1 buck tag system (NO AR's) and try to get the age of the deer up a little. This would support all the hunting types. I can shoot a spike or a 10 pt'r!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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