Strut10 Posted December 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. [ QUOTE ] So I guess I have to buy a bigger gun so I can shot animals in the butt to kill them. I am off to the gun shop. I think I will use what I have and wait for a clean vitals shot. But that is just me. [/ QUOTE ] That is "just me", too. I am a firm believer in making an ethical shot into the vitals.........which I did. It was not a shot I would encourage anyone to take.........especially if a better opportunity will present itself later. However..... (and not just with a magnum) the standing, broadside made-for-TV shot is not the only way to a big game animal's vitals all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. A gun recoils when it is fired. The recoil is the result of action-reaction force pairs. As the gases from the gunpowder explosion expand, the gun pushes the bullet forwards and the bullet pushes the gun backwards. The acceleration of the recoiling gun is ... a. greater than the acceleration of the bullet. b. smaller than the acceleration of the bullet. c. the same size as the acceleration of the bullet. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The force on the gun equals the force on the bullet. Yet, acceleration depends on both force and mass. The bullet has a greater acceleration due to the fact that it has a smaller mass. Remember: acceleration and mass are inversely proportional. If bullets truely had "knockdown power" bullet proof vests would mean very little. The trauma from just the impact and dumping all of its energy on the surface would be enough to crush internal organs and break bones. Yet, this is not the case. The energy of a bullet allows it do drive through the hide, bones, and muscle tissue hopefully, disrupting the vital organs. I have shot 30-40 pound whitetail fawns with a 338 Win Mag and all they did was fall straight down. Some fell towards me. This was almost two tons of kinectic energy at impact. I shot a decent 8 pointer with my 300 Webby. The deer was facing me and the bullet stayed inside him. He just went straight down. That bullet dumped over two tons of energy into that deer and it just went down. Ok, its recess time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Goose Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. is that good ol' F=ma? cuz that's what it looks like to me. As for the bullet proof vests, they may not crush the internal organs but they do crack ribs and leave one heck of a sore spot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 9, 2006 Report Share Posted December 9, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. [ QUOTE ] As for the bullet proof vests, they may not crush the internal organs but they do crack ribs and leave one heck of a sore spot! [/ QUOTE ] Ever see the old adds for the vests where the guy from Second chance shoot himself in the guts with a 44 Mag? Crack ribs? While I guess it could happen, I doubt it a lot unless it was a huge gun and very close range, measured in feet, not yards. Do not believe Hollywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Goose Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. It's not hollywood I am refering to. In the movies a guy who takes one to the chest, barely flinches, remains standing and continue to fight. And those vests may do alrite against handguns but they don't help all that much against a direct hit from a high power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WABS Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. The key is it's not F=ma, it's F=mass x acceleration SQUARED!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. It depends on the level of the vest. The military flak jackets are designed for rifle rounds, not just handguns. I had a video called Lethal Firepower and they were demonstrating the vests. A guy took a .308 Winchester with ball ammo and took a round from about 3 feet and he did not even budge. He was standing on one foot and even rocked back on his heels before the shot. Knockdown power is all Hollywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted December 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. [ QUOTE ] A guy took a .308 Winchester with ball ammo and took a round from about 3 feet and he did not even budge. He was standing on one foot and even rocked back on his heels before the shot. [/ QUOTE ] So, I'm still not getting where the 2500 or so lb/ft of energy went to in that scenario. It was there in the bullet at the muzzle of the rifle. The guy in the vest is the only thing (substantive........we'll discount the wind resistance & gravity over the 3 feet) the bullet encountered in its travel. How come the guy did not get a good backward shove?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hangunnr Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. [ QUOTE ] A guy took a .308 Winchester with ball ammo and took a round from about 3 feet....... [/ QUOTE ] What have they got that a man can wear that will defeat a 308 Win at 3 feet? A 308Win will make short work of 1/2" T1 armor plate out to 50yds. I do believe I'd like to see that video. hangunnr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Goose Posted December 11, 2006 Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. the guy weighs alot more than the bullet? I learn something new everyday. Can ii rent that video AJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strut10 Posted December 11, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. [ QUOTE ] the guy weighs alot more than the bullet? [/ QUOTE ] O.K. I understand that. But.........if I ain't mistaken.......the other part of "lb/ft" is "sec". Which means that if a bullet carries 2500 lb/ft/sec............. it has the mechanical ability to move 2500 lbs. across the distance of 1 foot in 1 second's time. Now, unless this was one fat dude in the vest...................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canadian_Goose Posted December 12, 2006 Report Share Posted December 12, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums.............. You have me strut... notice the question mark. I am just as confused if not more confused than you. All i know is my .300 win mag punched some serious holes through my deer this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 13, 2006 Report Share Posted December 13, 2006 Re: A big bear & a couple non-magnums............. [ QUOTE ] That is "just me", too. I am a firm believer in making an ethical shot into the vitals.........which I did. It was not a shot I would encourage anyone to take.........especially if a better opportunity will present itself later. [/ QUOTE ] Ditto. That's why I like the 7 mag, 300 mag, 338 mag class of rifles for 180 lb whitetails. If I see that 200 inch Booner about to drop off the edge of the world into an impenetrable canyon, I'm sending one right up the ol' Keister! And I'm confident the round will penetrate through to the vitals. However, I would not be confident of that shot if I had a 243 in my hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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