When you are lost

[Guest Andrea]

.........the last thing you wanna do is leave your immediate area. Am I right???? Obviously this family was not saavy enought to the ways of the outdoors. I would NEVER leave my spouse alone with 2 very young children to go seek help.

This family got stuck in the snow in the mountains of Oregon over the Thanksgiving holidays. They were there for over a week. In deep snow.

They did some smart things like burning the tires of their car to creat heat and a smoke signal. She breastfed both the 4 yr. old and the infant. But for the father to leave his wife and kids behind was just NOT the right thing to do.

They found the wife and kids Monday.....alive. However, yesterday they found the father, face down in the snow, dead. Very very sad.

The whole story

[QDMAworks4me]

Re: When you are lost

Not to disagree with you but he obviously thought he had no other choice, good luck to his family.

[Newarcher]

Re: When you are lost

Yeah but at some point you have to realize that help isn't coming. If the help isn't coming and you are out of food and water and have two small children, you have to do what you have to do.

I could see myself going back down the road I came up looking for help. That makes sense. But trudging off into the woods is a definite no no. They said he started down the road they were stuck on but somehow was found in a ravine.

Hopefully I never have to make that choice....prayers to the family.

New

[Guest Andrea]

Re: When you are lost

Yeah, but think about this:

He left his wife and two children behind in an area that was "swarming" with bears. Matter of fact, they found fresh bear tracks following HIS.

I think if they could have started a fire to burn TIRES, I would be setting the WORLD on fire so they could see where I was.

[whitetailkiller]

Re: When you are lost

touchy subject cuz as a man i would want to find help ,,, but the bear thing is crazy...... i wouldn't want to have to make that decision...

[Guest outdoorgirl]

Re: When you are lost

Sad story.

[Newarcher]

Re: When you are lost

Yeah but when you are out there in the cold with no food for your kids and days passing, there becomes a point where you have to take matters into your own hands.

I am sure there have been instances where people were found huddled in their cars with everyone dead.

With the snow storm, I imagine finding dry wood would be hard.

As for the bears, the family had the protection of a car that should have helped them.

Sad story.

New

[Newarcher]

Re: When you are lost

I was thinking a little more about this and I applaud what he did.

First, there was nothing he could do to help them in that car. He had no food. He had no water. He didn't really need to protect them because they had the protection of the car.

So really, he did the smart thing. He set out to do the single thing he could do which is to try to find help.

I was really rooting for him to make it.

New

[Guest Andrea]

Re: When you are lost

I guess I just think that since his children were being fed, he should have stayed. A car is no shelter from a bear that really wants to get in.

It is sad. The wife said that their plan was for him to leave but to return after 5 hours if he couldn't find a road. He left 2 days before his family was found. They think he suffered from hypothermia since he was taking off his clothes. ( A person suffering from hypothermia feels "warm")

[QDMAworks4me]

Re: When you are lost

We are hunters, we spend many days in the outdoors and think of things in a different way then someone who does not get outside much. Most of us probably would have had a deer riffle in the car this time of year and shot the bear and fed our family

I still think he did what he thought he should and I feel bad for he and his family, hero in my eyes.

[Guest Andrea]

Re: When you are lost

He died trying to save them. That is true. I hate hearing about stuff like this, at Christmas or any other time of year.

[Leo]

Re: When you are lost

What an incredibly tragic story Prayers for him and his family.

[Guest Danbo]

Re: When you are lost

In a situation like that, I think its a personal choice. Yes, people have died in short distances from help because they stayed put. Others died going for help. I think each situation is diff.. I would say that since he was in the vehicle (shelter), some gasoline to keep the car warm on occassion, on a road where they could be seen, had a fire with plenty of wood and fresh water, that staying put was the best option. hind site is 20/20 however. He must have felt compelled to go for help.

Terrible situation. I hope we can all learn from this in case it happens to us.

[birddog]

Re: When you are lost

Andrea, I wasn't going to post but to I can't help myself:

The area was "Swarming" with bears: Well, I am not familiar with Oregon, but once the snow falls and temps are below freezing, bears in MN are in a state of semi "hibernation". IF there were bear tracks following him, I would be very surprised, because as a bear gets ready for their winter sleep, they become very lethargic and actually form an anal plug to keep from deficating during winter sleep. This "plug" is formed from leaves,berries,and mud: A bear will not normally be interested in "meat".

As for leaving the family, I too agree it is the wrong thing to do, as we all have been taught, HOWEVER after 7 days, and you have no sign that anyone is looking for you, you have two options.....watch your children and wife slowly start to slip, while you sit there and wait, OR go against what we have been taught and go looking for help: Once the 4 tires were burnt and still no help arrived, I think as a father, and husband you would want to risk it....in hopes of finding something, anything to help your unfortunate situation, even if it is putting yourself in danger. You could either sit there and do nothing, waiting.....or wait 7 days, and try to find some way to find help for your family.

Gotta agree with Newarcher on this one, and disagree with anyone who can say they "blame him" for not being "saavy enought to the ways of the outdoors"......7 days, I think you would have to be fairly "saavy enough to the ways of the outdoors" to survive that long. Many who are saavy couldn't have survived.

Just my thoughts.

Tony

[Guest Andrea]

Re: When you are lost

[ QUOTE ]

Andrea, I wasn't going to post but to I can't help myself:

The area was "Swarming" with bears: Well, I am not familiar with Oregon, but once the snow falls and temps are below freezing, bears in MN are in a state of semi "hibernation". IF there were bear tracks following him, I would be very surprised, because as a bear gets ready for their winter sleep, they become very lethargic and actually form an anal plug to keep from deficating during winter sleep. This "plug" is formed from leaves,berries,and mud: A bear will not normally be interested in "meat".

As for leaving the family, I too agree it is the wrong thing to do, as we all have been taught, HOWEVER after 7 days, and you have no sign that anyone is looking for you, you have two options.....watch your children and wife slowly start to slip, while you sit there and wait, OR go against what we have been taught and go looking for help: Once the 4 tires were burnt and still no help arrived, I think as a father, and husband you would want to risk it....in hopes of finding something, anything to help your unfortunate situation, even if it is putting yourself in danger. You could either sit there and do nothing, waiting.....or wait 7 days, and try to find some way to find help for your family.

Gotta agree with Newarcher on this one, and disagree with anyone who can say they "blame him" for not being "saavy enought to the ways of the outdoors"......7 days, I think you would have to be fairly "saavy enough to the ways of the outdoors" to survive that long. Many who are saavy couldn't have survived.

Just my thoughts.

Tony

[/ QUOTE ]

As for the bear tracks, this was reported by the search and rescue teams that were following them.

And for "blaming" anyone and not being "saavy enough" ...................I am sure that if you were to ask his wife what her thoughts were.............she would tell you that she had wished her husband had stayed put.

[doughboy1956]

Re: When you are lost

While surviving in the winter can be very difficult, it can be done. Just because your vehicle breaks down, or you become stuck, is in some ways no different than encountering a survival situation while hiking. Survival is survival, though there are obviously different challenges in each situation. The key to your survival is to think before you act, stay where you are once you’re organized, prepare by having the right equipment with you, and gain the knowledge you need to survive before you need it. They were inexperienced with survival and did not follow the rules. If they had extra food,water, gas etc; they would have all survived.

1.Know the weather forecast and keep up with it at all times.

2.Tell someone when you are leaving, where you are going, who is going with you, when you expect to return, and what you expect to do.

3.If the weather suddenly turns severe find a place to stop or do not start your trip. Make sure as soon as possible you notify those who expect you to be at a given point at a given time. If you don’t, they may contact the police and a search and rescue mission could be started…for you.

The key to your survival is to think before you act, stay where you are once you’re organized, prepare by having the right equipment with you, and gain the knowledge you need to survive before you need it.

He was a very brave man caught in a terrible situation. God rest his soul and prayers for the family.

[Newarcher]

Re: When you are lost

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Andrea, I wasn't going to post but to I can't help myself:

The area was "Swarming" with bears: Well, I am not familiar with Oregon, but once the snow falls and temps are below freezing, bears in MN are in a state of semi "hibernation". IF there were bear tracks following him, I would be very surprised, because as a bear gets ready for their winter sleep, they become very lethargic and actually form an anal plug to keep from deficating during winter sleep. This "plug" is formed from leaves,berries,and mud: A bear will not normally be interested in "meat".

As for leaving the family, I too agree it is the wrong thing to do, as we all have been taught, HOWEVER after 7 days, and you have no sign that anyone is looking for you, you have two options.....watch your children and wife slowly start to slip, while you sit there and wait, OR go against what we have been taught and go looking for help: Once the 4 tires were burnt and still no help arrived, I think as a father, and husband you would want to risk it....in hopes of finding something, anything to help your unfortunate situation, even if it is putting yourself in danger. You could either sit there and do nothing, waiting.....or wait 7 days, and try to find some way to find help for your family.

Gotta agree with Newarcher on this one, and disagree with anyone who can say they "blame him" for not being "saavy enought to the ways of the outdoors"......7 days, I think you would have to be fairly "saavy enough to the ways of the outdoors" to survive that long. Many who are saavy couldn't have survived.

Just my thoughts.

Tony

[/ QUOTE ]

As for the bear tracks, this was reported by the search and rescue teams that were following them.

And for "blaming" anyone and not being "saavy enough" ...................I am sure that if you were to ask his wife what her thoughts were.............she would tell you that she had wished her husband had stayed put.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, she would have wanted him to.

Put the shoe on the other foot and suppose he stayed and she was the last to die....what would she think then?

He stayed put for 7 days and since no one expected them to be there and he had no idea if anyone was even looking for them at all....he did what he had to do.

I consider him a hero in that if nothing else he gave his family hope. I would never criticize anyone for doing what they had to do in an emergency situation.

New

[sskybnd]

Re: When you are lost

this was a tragic event, i dont know what i would have done in that position, but what ever it would have been would be for the saftey of my familey, i dont think i would have straied off the road i was on, i heard he had a map, they said it might have been a grand mcnally map that did'nt mark the road being closed in winter, but that the people in the area knew that it was , im sorry for the lost of the loved one so close to the holidays.

[SUGARKAHNE]

Re: When you are lost

That is so sad. I admire him for trying to save his family, but it really is tragic.

[Guest Andrea]

Re: When you are lost

Guess it's just me then. There's NO WAY I would let my husband go off on his own. He'd have to beat me back with a stick. I'd be stuck to him like glue.

[Ravin R10 man]

Re: When you are lost

From what Ive heard..the helicopter actually back tracked his tracks TO the car..thus recueing the family. That being said, NO WAY would I go cross country in such big country...STAY ON THE ROAD!! Thats where cars go..thats how they got lost...common sense...gonna comb the roads looking for you right?? At least the children and mother are ok...

[Straight Shooter]

Re: When you are lost

I've got to go with Andrea on this one. One thing I was wondering myself When the news said, he took off in a T-shirt, blue jeans, and tennis shoes, this guy is dead. That in it's self is suicide, Onieda man said it too. Stay on the road, even in the snow they traveled in on. The search crews(other than the air search) are going to use those first!

I am one protective father of my two kids and I would in no way leave my kids unless it was total life or death situation. My kids are being fed, and we've got somewhat of a fire. I can't protect them from the elements or wildlife if I'm off trekking through the woods. I know everyone is going to say it was a life or death situatin, but who ended up dieing? I'm sorry this intelligent man , just wasn't to woods-wise and panic in my opinion. Should of gave a little more faith in our search and rescue teams as well. Now the mother has got to live with he gave his life to save ours and wonder if she should have made him stay. It's a tough call, but I would of stay to protect my family or at least be with them in our last hours. JMO

[Newarcher]

Re: When you are lost

Here is an interesting google earth study of the situation.

It is clear to me that he panicked and started taking off clothes....as lost people often do, shedding clothes, weapons, etc.

Be sure to look at all 7 pages. Hats off to him, he almost made it.

http://www.layoutscene.com/james-kim-path/index.html

New

[elkoholic]

Re: When you are lost

He made the decision to try to save his family and I applaud his efforts. In life there are many decisions to be made, most are not life and death, but there is no guarantee of the outcome no matter which choice you make. Were they prepared for the situation and was he physically and mentally able to complete the task? I say let's not judge but may others learn from their mistakes. I feel sorry for the family and the lost they have suffered.

[Straight Shooter]

Re: When you are lost

I feel so sorry for the family. I watched some more news on it this morning and they said if he had went the other way. He would have ran into a firestation with supplies only three miles away, instead of the ten he walked in a semi-circle.