smo Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 I wish Va. would place a four point rule. Pennsylvania has this rule in certain areas, where a buck has to have at least four points on one side before you can harvest it. Everyone wants to kill big bucks but no one wants to let the smaller bucks go. If VDGIF would take control everyone would benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! If you really think about it all hunters want to bag big bucks. I was wanting to take a hunting trip and did some research and found that Pa. has the 4pt rule. I would hunt Pa. just because of this rule. I know the affect of passing on 16" bucks, which is what we do on the land and adjoining lands where I hunt. Theres alot of people who would say I'm crazy for passing on the bucks that we pass, but we are growing some awesome racks now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! The mast crop changes from year to year. That's probably why you say pa's buck crop was a bust this year. I agree with pa's rules that anyone under 17 ought to be able to bag anything they want, but us older folks ought to graduate from the small bucks. Besides there is enough does if you want meat to eat. There is some guys I work with that aggravate me to let them hunt cause they can't see any big bucks, yet they kill every little spike they see. Wonder why they can't see any big bucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamphunter Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! Be careful what you wish for.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] As for me, "4-point" rule or not I'll continue to take any buck I see fit. [/ QUOTE ] So your saying if it were law...you'd break it and poach a buck with less than 4pts. per side? The prob. in PA (if you believe some hunters) is that the population is down. Thats not because of Antler Restrictions...its because of the Herd Reduction, which the PGC wants less deer. I agree the first few years of the AR are tough...but eventually you'll be shooting 2 1/2 and 3 1/2 year old bucks instead of 1 1/2 year olds. The major prob. is that it is very hard to manage the entire state of PA the same. I personally have seen results of the AR and I'm very pleased with them. As far as the HR, I'm still out on this. Although the areas that I hunt, there isn't a prob. with too little of deer...there are still too many does. But there are way too many hunters (some that I respect) complaining of the # of deer they've seen this past season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! Pretty well the same here, but there is a split. You have meat hunters who could care less about the antlers and the hunters who would like to see more deer let go to possibly reach their potential. Tennessee saw some improvements after cutting the limits. Really wish they would also have some sort of antler restrictions here. Could be some really nice ones around if they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted December 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! What county do you live in Ore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 16, 2004 Report Share Posted December 16, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! Brother Ore - I think you may have just opened yourself up to receiving a big load of poop when you mentioned intentionally violating game laws. Lots of folks in these forums are likely to unload on you over that. Better get ready... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanH Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! DITTO for Oklahoma! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ExtremeSoloDubV Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! I wish they would put the 4 pt on 1 side rule in effect in West Virginia. Too many young deer being killed every year. Id rather see nice bucks and a ratio thats closer to 1 doe to 1 buck. The herd would be a lot healthier. It makes hunting more exciting KNOWING there are mature deer on your property than thinking WHAT IF I see one. I go to our property and see so many does and not as many bucks. For the past 5 years just on our 350 acres we have been letting younger bucks go and this was the 5th year. We killed a 6pt, 7pt, and two 8pts this year so its begining to work. If you want to hunt for meat, doe are better to eat anyways, so whats the dig deal on shooting young bucks for meat? How can you go about getting this put into action? Contact the Governer? What do others from West Virginia think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] If the law was due to a low population I might respect it, but I'll have no respect for a restrcition pushed through by "trophy hunters" which affects those of us who hunt for meat. [/ QUOTE ] First, Mr. Ore, older mature bucks produce bigger body's which leads to more MEAT. Second, its not just "trophy hunters" that like to harvest big bucks. [ QUOTE ] How would you like it if I got a law passed which allowed you to legally only shoot does and made you let every big deer you saw walk? [/ QUOTE ] If it were a law...then I guess I'd have to abide by it. Would I like it? prob. not, but I also don't "have" to see a ton of deer each season or even kill a deer to make my hunting outings worth wild! [ QUOTE ] Do what you want on your place, but don't try to tell me what to do on mine. [/ QUOTE ] So another words...we can all do what we fill fit? If I don't like the speed limit...then I can do 100 mph? If I don't like someone....I can just shoot them? That doesn't even make sense. Laws are laws, and if you BREAK a game law...then that makes you a poacher! Sorry, but I don't like poachers and you my friend would not be a hunter (meat or trophy) in my eyes!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] I would view my breaking of the "4-point rule" much in the same way that many of you view your breaking of the speed limit by 5 mph. You know you're not REALLY hurting anyone by it, so you're willing to risk the ticket. [/ QUOTE ] Your right...and I accept the ticket if I get caught...however, its still wrong! Laws are laws and if your knowingly shoot an illegal buck...thats no different (in my eyes) than shooting a deer at night. You can try and jusify it however you like...but its still poaching. No different than shooting a legal buck on posted ground. You may hunted hard and did everything right, but if you are on private property without permission...your poaching! I understand shooting an illegal deer is much different than shooting a person...but they are both still wrong. We (although may not agree with some) have laws and we "hunters" need to abide by the laws because there is alot of anti's/nonhunters watching. Here is the other thing to take into consideration. If your state inacts a 4pt. rule and you don't abide by it and don't get caught...no harm no foul in your eyes. However, the point restriction will never work in your area if you and others don't give it the chance to work. Then you and other folks will complain about not seeing "any" bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIGHTPOINT Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! Thisisoriginal, I have heard both sides of the Penna. story. This year my brother who hunts in your county shot another good buck just as the other 3 guys did also. He has shot good deer since I can remember up there. I hunt mostly in the Special Regs area and I took a nice 8 pt. the last day of archery. I saw bigger and know of 3 good bucks taken off one farm the first week of gun season. My father lives in Sullivan Co. and he is mailing me 2 pages of the Sullivan Review newspaper that has pictures of hunters with their wall hangers. If it's anything like last year there will be some big ones taken up there as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest youngBlood Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] Okay guys, bear with me here as I'd like to respond to the last couple of posts. First of all, I currently live in SE VA but grew up in central VA. I see what some of y'all are getting at with the notion of the "4-point rule" -- grow bigger, more mature bucks and let them spread the good genes. I get that. I respect your opinion, but don't think it should be a law. If you want to institute a game management plan on your farm/land then great. I hope it is very effective for you. But as I stated, my primary purpose for hunting is for meat. I hunt a lot in some areas that don't even have any doe days, and a "4-point rule" would be really restrictive. Don't get me wrong. I'm not into shooting every button buck and spike I see (would much rather take a doe and let them walk). But depending on how my year is going I still want the option to legally take something with less than four pts on one side. As to you calling me "poacher," feel free but I think you're being a little over-dramatic. Let's keep things in perspective here. We're talking about a "4-point rule," not killing people. Would breaking the "4-point" rule really be comparable to shooting a person you don't like? I don't think so. And how many of you drive the speed limit ALWAYS?? Or wear your seat belt ALWAYS?? If not I guess you're quite the criminal too. I would view my breaking of the "4-point rule" much in the same way that many of you view your breaking of the speed limit by 5 mph. You know you're not REALLY hurting anyone by it, so you're willing to risk the ticket. [/ QUOTE ] I totally agree with you. I also live in virginia, and I would hate to see the 4 pt rule down here. If you want to grow bigger racks get your club or hunting pals involved in something, like the 4 pt rule, 15 inch wide.. whatever. Many virginians could careless about antlers, but instead want meat. For me, If im having a slow year and a little 4 or 6 point comes by, well hes not gonna walk by me. After that maybe Ill let some walk, but I enjoy the meat too much to wait for the perfect buck to walk by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruttinbuc Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! Geesh! Here we go again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Okay guys, bear with me here as I'd like to respond to the last couple of posts. First of all, I currently live in SE VA but grew up in central VA. I see what some of y'all are getting at with the notion of the "4-point rule" -- grow bigger, more mature bucks and let them spread the good genes. I get that. I respect your opinion, but don't think it should be a law. If you want to institute a game management plan on your farm/land then great. I hope it is very effective for you. But as I stated, my primary purpose for hunting is for meat. I hunt a lot in some areas that don't even have any doe days, and a "4-point rule" would be really restrictive. Don't get me wrong. I'm not into shooting every button buck and spike I see (would much rather take a doe and let them walk). But depending on how my year is going I still want the option to legally take something with less than four pts on one side. As to you calling me "poacher," feel free but I think you're being a little over-dramatic. Let's keep things in perspective here. We're talking about a "4-point rule," not killing people. Would breaking the "4-point" rule really be comparable to shooting a person you don't like? I don't think so. And how many of you drive the speed limit ALWAYS?? Or wear your seat belt ALWAYS?? If not I guess you're quite the criminal too. I would view my breaking of the "4-point rule" much in the same way that many of you view your breaking of the speed limit by 5 mph. You know you're not REALLY hurting anyone by it, so you're willing to risk the ticket. [/ QUOTE ] I totally agree with you. I also live in virginia, and I would hate to see the 4 pt rule down here. If you want to grow bigger racks get your club or hunting pals involved in something, like the 4 pt rule, 15 inch wide.. whatever. Many virginians could careless about antlers, but instead want meat. For me, If im having a slow year and a little 4 or 6 point comes by, well hes not gonna walk by me. After that maybe Ill let some walk, but I enjoy the meat too much to wait for the perfect buck to walk by. [/ QUOTE ] I could'nt disagree more guys, laws are laws. The intent of the 4 point rules are simple, to allow a buck to reach maturity. More importantly, it is the law. No I've never gotten a speeding ticket, yes I always wear my seatbelt. Always. If it becomes law, your opinion of it's validity is pointless. If you don't follow it you are a pocher and should not be allowed to hunt. When it comes to game laws, I follow them down to having a pen with me to tag a deer in the field, and shutting down at last legal light even though I've got enough scope for another 20-30 minutes. And yes this year when I shot a doe, I recorded her and tagged her befor I moved her from where she passed. Why do I do this. It's simple. It's black and white. It's the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horst Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! I dont like statewide antler restrictions.To me it seems like just another way to lose hunter numbers.A lotta guys get to hunt maybe a couple weekends a year, and they take what they can get in the time they have to hunt.A lotta guys arent really after a trophy buck.They pay the same for thier licenses i pay for mine, they should be entitled to shoot what they want. The only exception would be if the deer herd in your state definately needed it, if the populations high and nobodies killing does, something like that.But to often it does come down to two things.trophy hunters pushing laws through to dictate how everyone should hunt, or the state deciding they can make more money by growing more Trophy bucks.unfourtanately most times when decisions like this are made its got more to do with politics and money then it does with the health of the deer population. as far as breaking an antler restriction law your little scenario works both ways.You could compare it to things like speeding tickets like you said.or you could compare it with other crimes like robbery and burglary.See, if your illegaly shooting a buck, even if you dont agree with the law, deer are public property.I dont care if your spotlighting them, shooting them outta season, or shooting one thats under the point restriction, your stealing that deer from everyone else that hunts.Next year he coulda been a whole lot bigger and been under someone elses stand who could have shot him "legally".iowas full of game laws I dont like but i live with em just like everyone else.what makes you special that you can pick and choose which laws you get to obey? And finally if a point restriction were passed here, I guesse it wouldnt change nothing about the way I hunt anyway.I hold out for bigger bucks, its what I enjoy doing.But thats just me, I dont think its right to tell others how they should hunt and I definately dont think the state should be able to without a very good reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! snapper, I have to say that was well said and agree 100% with your view... I would like to add something that should already be known to a hunter... THE RACK SIZE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANTLER RESTRICTION...it just happens to be the BONUS...this is the reason for the restriction.. if you are forced to pass on a deer that doesn't meet the guide line it has the chance of becoming a more mature deer, therfore improving the deer herd, which is what we all want. I'll take a doe or 2 over an immature buck anyday.If you think you have it bad come to Vermont we are really hurting....but hopfully this will be improved with our antler restriction that will be enforced next season. I'm going to be harsh once again and say that anyone that would openly admit in a open forum the he/she would poach game just because he/she doesn't care for the law should be banned from such activity....SORRY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smo Posted December 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! The only reason I wouldn't want a 4-point restriction is that it might become such a money racket that I couldn't afford to hunt. Besides that it is a win win situation for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! How would a 4-point restriction become a money racket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! Yep, told ya' to get ready to shovel the poop ... The gift of prophecy is upon me! I must be turning into a god Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I totally agree with you. I also live in virginia, and I would hate to see the 4 pt rule down here. If you want to grow bigger racks get your club or hunting pals involved in something, like the 4 pt rule, 15 inch wide.. whatever. Many virginians could careless about antlers, but instead want meat. For me, If im having a slow year and a little 4 or 6 point comes by, well hes not gonna walk by me. After that maybe Ill let some walk, but I enjoy the meat too much to wait for the perfect buck to walk by. [/ QUOTE ] Finally someone who can see the other side of this thing with me. As for those of you who would crucify me as the big bad poacher, I hope you feel high and mighty. You've earned your ethical hunter merit badge for the day. And since you claim to be soooo perfect in obeying EVERY aspect of EVERY law on the books 100% of the time I had better throw in a gold star to boot. I think it's so funny how folks act this way. You ask who am I to pick and choose the laws I obey? Well who are YOU to do the same? Everyone takes part in this behavior in some way in some area of their life, and those who won't fess up to it, and who proclaim their perfection are flat out liars. So you follow the exact letter of the law when you're hunting. Good for you, but I have no doubt you fall short from time to time where other laws are concerned. But since nobody is willing to admit it, just go on and ride that high horse into the sunset, wear your badge with pride, and keep dismissing me as the terrible poacher and menace to society that I am (for commenting on a hypothetical scenerio). [/ QUOTE ] You just don't seem to grasp what you said in a hunting forum.....I saw nothing hypothetical about the statement that you made, that you would poach deer even if your state made the 4pt. restriction law. And to answer you're off the wall statement about peoples ethics while hunting....NO I have never once done anything that would even be questionable in our state hunting laws. Why wouldn't you want to better your deer herd ??? this I don't understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] Everyone takes part in this behavior in some way in some area of their life, and those who won't fess up to it, and who proclaim their perfection are flat out liars. So you follow the exact letter of the law when you're hunting. Good for you, but I have no doubt you fall short from time to time where other laws are concerned. But since nobody is willing to admit it, just go on and ride that high horse into the sunset, wear your badge with pride, and keep dismissing me as the terrible poacher and menace to society that I am (for commenting on a hypothetical scenerio). [/ QUOTE ] First...never said I was perfect and got a few speeding tickets because of my ignorance! Second...its only hypocritical in your eyes...this is a hunting website and we are discussing HUNTING (not speeding). Yes I've prob. broke some game laws while in the field...but not knowingly. You are basically admiting that you would poach a deer because of your greed. Lets not forget that hunting isn't all about you and lets think of the health of the herd. These folks spend years trying to do whats best for the health of the herd and the average "joe hunter" who spends 20 hours in the woods each year know better. I have nothing against a hunter who don't care about the size of buck they shoot...but if it means breaking the law...then thats just wrong. Don't care how you justify it. Sorry, but speeding and poaching are nothing alike. If this were a forum about driving, then the speeding ticket would be far worst than shooting a deer illegally. Lets keep it to hunting...what your suggesting is poaching PERIOD! Whether you agree with the law or not...you are not above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snapper Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! [ QUOTE ] That being said, who do you think you are lecturing me? [/ QUOTE ] Again...this a hunting website that I'M a moderator on...again, you are suggesting poaching a deer. Call it a lecture or what ever you wish...either way its poaching. Don't care about someone's taxes, cable, inspection sticker etc... I care about hunting and the image of this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VermontHunter Posted December 17, 2004 Report Share Posted December 17, 2004 Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule! Well if you shoot a six pointer then what's your point on the 4pt. restriction...I think now you have totally confused yourself.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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