I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[snapper]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

In PA and I believe Ore means the same thing...the 4pt. restriction here is one side. So a 6 point buck would be legal if it had 4 on one side and 2 on the other.

[VermontHunter]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

I see.. Thanks snapper for the clarification...

[VermontHunter]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

snapper a question for ya...what's the total number of deer that can be harvest by one hunter in a single season in these two states ( PA-VA ) ??? 1,2,3,0r more ??

[VermontHunter]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

Im not trying to be smart....

Are you allowed to fill all 6 tags legally ??? If you are how many on average do you usually fill ??

[buckee]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

snapper, I have to say that was well said and agree 100% with your view... I would like to add something that should already be known to a hunter... THE RACK SIZE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANTLER RESTRICTION...it just happens to be the BONUS...this is the reason for the restriction.. if you are forced to pass on a deer that doesn't meet the guide line it has the chance of becoming a more mature deer, therfore improving the deer herd, which is what we all want.

[/ QUOTE ]

And please don't forget that more mature bucks, means more weight on those bucks, which in turn means more meat per animal, along with many more mature animals to choose from. That is what you end up with after a few years, if you have an antler restriction law.

The "Meat Hunter" arguement doesn't really hold much water here, since you can always shoot a nice mature doe that will provide lots of meat as well and over time, the antler restriction would provide the meat hunters with an abundance of larger, more mature animals, that would put a lot more meat on the table.

To say you would knowingly break the game laws if there were to be an antler restriction, would indeed make you a poacher. That's what poachers do...they break game laws. Taking an illegal buck at night with a light or taking an illegal buck in the daytime makes no difference at all.

There are enough irresponsible yahoo slob hunters running around out there without adding your name to the list.

Your not thinking too clearly, when you say you would knowingly disregard the antler restriction laws, if passed, or any game laws, as far as that goes.

You are a very poor example to other hunters, young and old.

[ QUOTE ]

6 tags in VA this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

And your whining about an antler restriction ...LOL

[snapper]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

PA...you recieve one buck tag with your lic. and could get 2 antlerless tags. There are areas in the state (although very small areas) where there is unlimited antlerless tags.

I could only get 1 antlerless tag this year...didn't get my bonus antlerless tag.

Ore...this will most likely be my last post on this subject.

I understand your thinking...I also don't like a law being passed reguardless of what it is. You can't make everyone happy all the time. There will always be folks who don't like the law. That being said, I can't be with you next season if VA would pass a 4pt. per side rule and I certainly can't do much if you choose to shoot an illegal deer. However, what I do have control over is you on this board. There have been folks in the past that were banned for openingly admiting poaching deer. I don't think Mr. Jordan and others at Team Realtree would want this kind of trash talk on "their" site. So keep on justifiying poaching deer if you like...but please do so on another site.

I'm not proving any point of yours...I don't go out with the intent of breaking any law (like your describing). Because I'm human and make mistakes...I have had a speeding ticket or two in my life. I try to adbide by laws...like 'em or not.

[VermontHunter]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

6 tags in VA this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

And your whining about an anler restriction ...LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

buckee answered what I was getting at.....Here in Vermont we are limited to 3 deer and 1 is a buck that needs to meet our antler restriction law. This has nothing to do with how many deer we have because we have a good numbered deer herd, unfortunately the numbers favor the doe's and our buck's are young buck's. 1.5-2 yrs old with very few 3yr. old stock, maybe the very rare occassional 4-5yr. old. This only means real trouble in the near future for deer hunting of any kind in this state if the taking of these young bucks was allowed to continue. My only point I'm trying to get across is that as responsible hunters we as a whole must do everything in our power to better the whitetail herd...and this sometimes means making sacrafices that we don't particularly like...

[VermontHunter]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

so what you're saying snapper is that without the bonus tag you are limited to only 3 deer correct ???

[snapper]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

Really only tag you def. get is the buck tag with your lic. There is a posibility of not getting any antlerless tags. The most tags that the majority of PA hunters can get is 3 (one buck tag and two antlerless tags).

[Guest youngBlood]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

snapper, I have to say that was well said and agree 100% with your view... I would like to add something that should already be known to a hunter... THE RACK SIZE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE ANTLER RESTRICTION...it just happens to be the BONUS...this is the reason for the restriction.. if you are forced to pass on a deer that doesn't meet the guide line it has the chance of becoming a more mature deer, therfore improving the deer herd, which is what we all want.

[/ QUOTE ]

And please don't forget that more mature bucks, means more weight on those bucks, which in turn means more meat per animal, along with many more mature animals to choose from. That is what you end up with after a few years, if you have an antler restriction law.

The "Meat Hunter" arguement doesn't really hold much water here, since you can always shoot a nice mature doe that will provide lots of meat as well and over time, the antler restriction would provide the meat hunters with an abundance of larger, more mature animals, that would put a lot more meat on the table.

To say you would knowingly break the game laws if there were to be an antler restriction, would indeed make you a poacher. That's what poachers do...they break game laws. Taking an illegal buck at night with a light or taking an illegal buck in the daytime makes no difference at all.

There are enough irresponsible yahoo slob hunters running around out there without adding your name to the list.

Your not thinking too clearly, when you say you would knowingly disregard the antler restriction laws, if passed, or any game laws, as far as that goes.

You are a very poor example to other hunters, young and old.

[ QUOTE ]

6 tags in VA this year.

[/ QUOTE ]

And your whining about an anler restriction ...LOL

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, in a few years with this law, how many does are actually gonna be left? If u can only kill bucks with 4 points on one side, theres gonna be a whole lot more does at the check station.

I hunt for the thrill of hunting whitetail deer. I enjoy providing my family and friends with meat. With that being said i would hate to be them penn. hunters up there not seeing a single deer. Ok so this year a buck has bigger antlers, whoop de dum doo! the does and the whole deer population is reduced to nothing!

[snapper]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

Ok so this year a buck has bigger antlers, whoop de dum doo! the does and the whole deer population is reduced to nothing!

[/ QUOTE ]

If you would have read my first post...the deer herd being smaller has nothing to do with the Antler Restrictions. Pennsylvania Game Comm. issed more antlerless tags to reduce the herd. That is where most hunters are complaining...not really the AR.

[Guest youngBlood]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

also i wanted to add this, we can "harvest" 6 deer here. I have never harvested more than 3 a year.

Just because we can take 6 deer doesnt mean we get deer all the time, or a deer a day.

You said for us to stop complaining, i am complaining and i have my right to do so.

I think the 4 pt rule should not be placed in Virginia.

You can state your opinion but dont tell me that im whining or to stop complaining. I want you to realize that there is hunters out there that think the size of antlers is NOT the most important thing.

[VermontHunter]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

Really only tag you def. get is the buck tag with your lic. There is a posibility of not getting any antlerless tags. The most tags that the majority of PA hunters can get is 3 (one buck tag and two antlerless tags).

[/ QUOTE ]

Im just going to ignore the post from youngblood they just don't seem to get it...

Thanks for your time snapper, yep that's just what we have here in Vermont 3 deer limit, regardless of how many tags you purchase... 1 buck, and 2 does and less than 2 months to fill them.

[smo]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

He, He. Don't you just love it. Youngblood, you hit the nail on the head.You said that if a four point rule was to happen that more does would be harvested. Thats my point. In Va. I'd say the buck to doe ratio is way out of whack in most counties.If I were over the VDGIF I would tinker to see what works and what don't. Oh yea, and someone was asking how it could become a money racket, well I'm losing hunting ground just about every year to leases. I guess when everyone sees the big bucks they decide to dish out some big bucks. Well, as bugs bunny would say "That's all folks".

[snapper]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

Heaven forbid if you don't kill yourself a trophy every year. Those deer heads over your fire place must really make you feel like a man, huh?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've never killed a trophy (at least in my eyes) and have no deer heads mounted...but I do feel like a man when I let a inmature buck walk. I don't need to kill "a buck" to feel like a man! BTW, I only harvested one doe this past season and passed up several bucks...legal bucks!

I'm not whinning...I like the AR. I understand you don't, and I'm sorry the laws don't always please everyone. We can discuss AR and give opinions all you want...happy to talk about that. However, when you or anyone starts avocating poaching...thats where I draw the line.

BTW...how come you keep posting if you want to drop it?

[Guest youngBlood]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

I still think if there was a 4 point rule, more does would be killed.

In virginia theres more meat and dog hunters than trophy hunters. They are gonna shoot a deer if its legal.

I dont see how the dog hunters around here would be able to count antler points on a deer running through the woods. intead they will start shooting more does instead of risking an illegal buck kill.

[smo]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

Not every county would have to have these regulations.Just the ones VDGIF would see fit. I guess I should re-phrase that to Grayson County, VA. I guarantee you if you could hunt our property, you would be wanting to lease it out. I was like Ore at first. A cattle rancher from N.C starting managing about 1000 acres of land that joins ours. When he first came up here, he started hammering on us to let the little ones walk. Of coarse our club totally disagreed, until we started seeing and shooting the big boys also. Deer management just takes time and is a little harder to swallow for some people. The flip side is that I've also lost alot of hunting ground because of the bigger bucks.

[buckee]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

Well ore, we are only allowed 2 deer here. (2 bucks or 1 doe and 1 buck) Anything goes as far as bucks go. I am a meat hunter first, horn hunter second. Everyone likes a nice big antlered buck in their season, but when all is said and done there isn't that many big ones around, so it's down to getting some meat in the freezer as apposed to lots of meat in the freezer. An old mature buck here will weigh 100 lbs or more, but a smaller buck will be anywhere from 70 to 85 lbs. (that's hanging weight at the butchers) Now without even talking antlers, if I could take 2 nice mature bucks every year, rather than 2 imature animals, that gives me almost a whole imature deer extra in the freezer.(anywhere from 40 to 80 lbs extra). Now I'm talking little blacktails here. A whitetail would give you plenty more.

AR works to produce more mature bigger bodied animals, plain and simple, and for a bonus, you get some larger antlered bucks as well. AR is not all about antlers and it's not all about trophy hunting. It's more to do with a healthier deer herd and more meat in your freezer because of it.

I sure wish they would implement it here and I would also like to see them implement an earn-a-buck program by having to take a doe first, instead of having one of our tags open to either/or. Too many guys go for bucks only around here, even though they are allowed a doe on one tag, and they end up thinning out all the bucks instead of keeping the doe count down. Those same guys say their meat hunters too, but are shooting pretty skimpy deer.

I used to think just like you (except for the willingness to poach part ) but have since changed my attitudes towards AR and QDM, now that I have a better understanding of how it works

We have responsabilities as hunters to , yes, put food on the table in many cases, but also to keep deer herds in check to control over-populations and to maintain a healthy herd at the same time.

AR and QDM does all that and puts more meat on your table, whether you want to believe it or not.

Your just having a hard time choking down the fact that you may just have to hunt a bit harder for 2 or 3 years before you reap the real benefits. And there will be benefits from an AR, providing everyone doesn't think like you and go out and poach whatever they like.

I'll disregard your statement about me being ignorant because I live way up here in Canada....it's not rocket science you know, if you care to really find out how AR , along with proper doe management, could in fact improve your hunting.

[LifeNRA]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

That being said, who do you think you are lecturing me?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again...this a hunting website that I'M a moderator on...again, you are suggesting poaching a deer. Call it a lecture or what ever you wish...either way its poaching. Don't care about someone's taxes, cable, inspection sticker etc... I care about hunting and the image of this site.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with SNAPPER!!!!!!

Your worried about meat whan you have SIX TAGS to fill!!! Then you talk about breaking other rules to hide the fact that you are a POACHER! Then you act like you know everybody on this site and say things to demean them!!! For that I feel you should be banned! These mods in here are doing a great job of keeping things in here to run smoothly! But to come in here and say "Yeah Ill poach a deer and I dont care!" Is about the biggest idiotic words I heard in here yet! Ore I think maybe you should look for another forum to start your CRAP IN!!!

JMHO!!!

[LifeNRA]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

BTW!!!!! This is what I like about AR!!! But I hate HR!!!!!!!!

[Nut]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

Fun thread LOL

I am not for antler restrictions on a statewide basis. I am for proper deer management to assure population control.

Anybody that wants to hunt the public land in NW Ohio will change thier mind about AR after they go without a deer in 5-8 years. (A friend passed on a few small bucks a few years ago and still hasnt gotten a deer in 8 years) Just a scenario for ya to think about.

[horst]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

[ QUOTE ]

Your last comments there I think hit on part of the problem in VA (and probably lost of other places) that is part of what got me fired up on this subject. It just seems like the common guy is getting squeezed out of hunting. Rich folks and hunt clubs are just taking over everything. And a lot of the old folks are dying off and their children, being conditioned by modern society to be wary of anything related to guns, kick everyone out and post the land. So a lot of folks end up with nowhere to go but state land which, as I said, is pretty restrictive. And when you start suggesting a "4-point" rule it just makes you think, what would be the point of wasting my time with two highly restrictive buck tags competing against 500 other guys in the same situation. If I'm thinking that I know other people would be. And once you start losing people from the sport in mass it's not going to be good for anyone

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats a sensible argument Ore.Im in Iowa and we get the crap promoted out of us being a "big buck" state.Only problem that comes with that is when you become known as being a big buck destination everyone wants to cash in on it.I read awhile back that one county in southern Iowas over 90% non resident owned.Then the outfitters start paying top dollar for hunting ground leases, which drives up the prices for everyone who leases ground.Another artical I read two days ago said the average price of land in Iowas 2600$ an acre right now.Except in southern Iowa, people are paying over 4000$ an acre down there now in some counties for anything that looks like good hunting ground.

Even the state will cash in on it.non resident licenses here are over 300$ a piece now, they more than doubled them a few years ago all in one price jump.Someone doubted antler restrictions could be profitable for the state, dont bet on it.The state knows all to well people are willing to pay more, travel further, and come back more often to hunt where theres big bucks.And they will promote the heck out of it once a few big uns start being taken.Your hunting license may go up, non resident licenses will most definately go up.

So you begin to realize after awhile that the good grounds being bought or leased, a lot of it by non residents or guides.Theres also suddenly a ton more people crowding into public ground to to losing hunting land and the increased number of out of state hunters.so you got guys everywhere with a tag full of pockets and no deer in sight.It will definately take a toll on the doe population, and the bucks will either be illegal, dead or relocated to private ground where they wont be shot at unless thier trophy size.

Im all for letting little bucks walk and practice it regularly.But the trophy hunting mentality thats so common these days is gonna kill this sport.Its all becoming more of a a big businuess and less of a sport.Guys with little disposable income are slowly getting pushed out of it already.And everyone seems suprised that hunter numbers are declining every year.When states start managing deer herds for antler size its only gonna push hunting further in that direction.If you dont own ground, cant afford to lease it, and arent willing to fight the crowds on public ground where theres a chance you wont even see a "legal' buck then you just hang it up.Its happening more every year.

[MCH]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

I would just like to add that I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread. Both sides have been "somewhat" civil and both sides have brought up valid points.

Most would say debates, like this one, hurt our group as a whole, but I disagree.

Again, thanks for the very informational thread.

[smo]

Re: I wish Va. would place a four point rule!

Maybe the state of Va. ought to do as they did a few years back. They used to tranquilize big bucks on military bases and distribute them to different areas in the state.