markyj987 Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 My fiancee and I joined a church pretty recently--and quite prematurely. After doing some more research into the church, it is clear that their doctrine and teaching are false in many places, and in many more, they're positions on many things are wishy washy at best. Has anyone else here ever had to do this? If so, did you meet with the pastor. I believe the loving thing is to discuss this with him when I request the release from membership. It's tough though. He is REALLY a great guy and I think his particular congregation is in good care with him as pastor, but I fear that the national church body and its error will seep into the church. Just wondering if any of you have been through this and have any insight on what I can expect. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church You need to talk to the pastor and set them straight. Tell them what and how they are wrong and make them change. The sooner the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church Sadly there are several denomintations out there who have strayed from the Word of God. Some simply ignore what thier own doctorine teaches in the name inclusion, others believe that the God's word is just a book of stories made up by man and are to be used to help guide our decisions. The worst (to me) pervert God's Word by deleting or adding thier own newer "gospels". At any rate, if this is a denominational doctorine issue, my advice would be to drop that church like a hot rock and find one that is biblically sound. If the pastor believes what he is teaching you won't change his mind. If he doesn't believe it he shouldn't be preaching. Either way you go, it's not a church that I would go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church Really sorry to hear that Mark. When we left the church we were members of, we just quit going, we felt our preacher was not who we initially thought he was so we never talked with him before we made the decision to quit going. Was not long after we left our preacher left the church and headed to Memphis for bigger and better opportunities. Guess the right thing to do in your situation would be to talk with your preacher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael_bolton Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church I have always wondered why Ephesians 4:5 speaks of One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, yet there are so many different churches out there that teach from the same Bible yet interpret it differently. If the Protestants and Catholics believe the same Bible why have two different churches? Why not combine them all into one? That goes for all churches that use the Bible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church The bible also says michael that the body of Christ has different parts, with different functions and that one part may not know what the other is doing. They don't have to perform the same function as each other, they just have to work for the betterment of the the body. I don't believe any denomination has a monopoly on God, nor do I think a single one is absolutely right. Denominations were formed because of man's interpritation of the bible. Those who believe alike should be together in worship. I also think having diverse denominations helps the cause of Christ. People need different things out of church. The different worship styles of the denominations give that variety to those who need it. I couldn't stand sitting through some denominations sevices. I would be bored to tears and would have no spiritual growth. Others may come to my church and be distracted by the music or the way our service runs and not be able to focus on God. As long as the soverine Word of God is being tought in it's enirety and Christ is the center of learning, God will be there and people will come to Him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael_bolton Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church I agree with you that demoninations were formed based on personal interpretation of the Bible. But to say that God left man to confusion, disarray and different teachings I don't believe. When Christ was on the earth he established a church where all men could learn his teachings without confusion. I'm doubtful that are even two churches on the earth at this time teaching the exact same thing, such as baptism for instance. Christ said that unless a man be born again with water and with the spirit he cannot inheret the kingdom of God. But which church out there has the correct baptism? Ask the Methodists and they will claim it is their method, ask the Baptists and they believe theirs is. I believe that many religions have much good to offer the world, but they don't teach in harmony, they believe in Christ and the Bible but their agreement ends about there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son. That whosoever believed in Him would not parish, but have everlasting life." What part of that has anything to do with how wet you end up? I think that's one of the things that really don't matter as far as salvation is concerned. Some denominations are very arrogant about what they do for themselves spiritually, when it's child-like faith that is all that really matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unioncountyslayer Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church This is why I go to a non-denominational church. No strict by-laws and doctrinal flaws, just preach the truth straight out of God's Sacred Word. As far as going to your preacher with your issues, it can't hurt, just do it in Love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church [ QUOTE ] This is why I go to a non-denominational church. No strict by-laws and doctrinal flaws, just preach the truth straight out of God's Sacred Word. As far as going to your preacher with your issues, it can't hurt, just do it in Love. [/ QUOTE ] But then your under the mercy of one man's interpritation. I like the fact that when I go to church that the pastor is bound to teach an established docorine. While I don't agree 100% with my church doctorine or 100% with my pastors veiws, I respect them and don't try to argue with him. I do let him know my opinion though and a strong man will respect that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unioncountyslayer Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church Well John, his interpritation is backed by the word of God each week. He gives scripture to back up his points and encourages all to use their own bibles to check these scriptures, not just simply believe what he says is true. I wonder how many preachers do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church I'm not saying he's not a good preacher or a Godly man. I would just like the stability of something on paper that you can say "This is what we believe". There are many things out there that people interpret differently: Baptism, security of the believer, social issues like devorce, homosexuality, abortion and the list goes on and on. Having a doctorine also means that when my daughter goes to Sunday school, she learns what my church teaches. If a Sunday school teacher tell her something that is contrary to our church doctorine they are approched by the Sunday school director about it and told what our church teaches, the second time they are learning in a class, not teaching it. Without a set doctorine, anyone can teach pretty much whatever they want with no recorse. I'm just not comfortable with that. I know a few people who go to different Non-denominational churches around here. Most of the time if you ask they say "but our's is just like a .......church". My gut reaction is, "well, why don't you go to a .........church then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unioncountyslayer Posted January 8, 2007 Report Share Posted January 8, 2007 Re: Leaving a church John, I understand where you are coming from, but my chruch is very different from what you are talking about. Here are our beliefs. http://southbrookchurch.com/Beliefs.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Leaving a church All right, that's something I can sink my teeth into. No arguements with any of that stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PA_RIDGE_RUNNER Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Leaving a church I belong to a church with coservative views. We used to be affiliated with a major denomination that has over the years become one of the most liberal denominations out there. We stuck it out attempting to work from the inside to effect change to biblical values but to no avail. It has only gotten worse. About a year ago we voted to walk away from this mainstream denomination. So our whole congregation left the "church". So far we have been very slow to affiliate with another denomination. We do know a few that we don't want but have not chosen a denomination yet. The sermons in our church have not changed from before we left but now I am proud to say I belong a christian church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Leaving a church Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markyj987 Posted January 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Leaving a church Thanks for your insights and the fascinating discussion this has brought forth! My letter asking for release is done and I am waiting for a few days to send it. There have recently been two deaths in the congregation and I just cannot bring myself to approach this topic with the pastor at the moment. Though I liked the idea of movement towards communion with other churches initially, my letter to the pastor states: According to its website, the ELCA does “pursue the goal of full communion and will rejoice in all movement toward that goal.” Though I appreciate the ultimate goal for all to come together in Christ, I wonder at what cost to biblical truth? This is really my foundation for leaving. As someone with little religious background and as one who was scared off by nondenominational churches (just ended up in a REALLY bad one), I found my faith to really be mirrored by that taught in Lutheran doctrine. Anyway, we joined this church understanding them to be Lutheran--but my eyes were quickly opened and I began to dig deeper. The more I learned, the more I was drawn to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod (WELS). Though I had been a visitor there on many occasions, my view of them was that they were maybe too strict, too conservative, and their teachings/doctrines on fellowship seemed too much to bear or fully understand. After seeing all the error in the ELCA church we joined and learning how a series of mergers in its predecessor bodies watered down core teacings of Sctipture and the Lutheran confessions as well, the WELS teachings on fellowship are now clear to me. Anywhoo...that's a lot of rambling, but something I once destested (the idea of doctrine) really tiesthose in a denomination and congregations together in unity. Doctrine that is bound to God's Word is not as I once thought (an obstacle to faith and understanding), but instead elevates His Word and is a blessing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 9, 2007 Report Share Posted January 9, 2007 Re: Leaving a church Very well put Marky. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought and prayer into your decisions. I have found in my travels that denominations teach, act and live differently depending on the region and area and many times, the size and age of the church. Baptist for instance in rural Arkansas are very concervitive using very little modern music and rarely any instruments other than organ and piano. They will not allow any but members to participate in comunion, don't allow devorced men or wormen to serve in any position of authority in the church and frown upon dating outside the denomination. You may move to a larger church in the area or a bigger town that may have a rock band in there church and a devoreced pastor. Then you could move on to Dallas and have gay music minister and never touch a hymnal. BTW, I'm baptist. Don't count the Lutherines out. The ones that I know down here are at least as concervative as me if not more so. They have sound doctorine and Godly teaching in their church. You may find another church of that denomination that actually does what they are supposed to. There is nothing wrong with preaching to the sinners and trying to get people in church. But when you have them there, it is the church's responsibility to them to teach them the truth. To tell them that their lifestyle is ok with God and he loves them anyway is a dis-service to them. Jesus never said "Your'e fogiven, go and sin all you want to" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael_bolton Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Leaving a church [ QUOTE ] John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son. That whosoever believed in Him would not parish, but have everlasting life." What part of that has anything to do with how wet you end up? I think that's one of the things that really don't matter as far as salvation is concerned. Some denominations are very arrogant about what they do for themselves spiritually, when it's child-like faith that is all that really matters. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with most of what you have said, but I do believe that baptism is an essential step in salvation. If it wasn't important why did Christ being sinless show an example by being baptised? I think we all can agree that Belief in Christ, and good works will earn salvation......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest michael_bolton Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Leaving a church [ QUOTE ] Very well put Marky. It sounds like you've put a lot of thought and prayer into your decisions. I have found in my travels that denominations teach, act and live differently depending on the region and area and many times, the size and age of the church. Baptist for instance in rural Arkansas are very concervitive using very little modern music and rarely any instruments other than organ and piano. They will not allow any but members to participate in comunion, don't allow devorced men or wormen to serve in any position of authority in the church and frown upon dating outside the denomination. You may move to a larger church in the area or a bigger town that may have a rock band in there church and a devoreced pastor. Then you could move on to Dallas and have gay music minister and never touch a hymnal. BTW, I'm baptist. Don't count the Lutherines out. The ones that I know down here are at least as concervative as me if not more so. They have sound doctorine and Godly teaching in their church. You may find another church of that denomination that actually does what they are supposed to. There is nothing wrong with preaching to the sinners and trying to get people in church. But when you have them there, it is the church's responsibility to them to teach them the truth. To tell them that their lifestyle is ok with God and he loves them anyway is a dis-service to them. Jesus never said "Your'e fogiven, go and sin all you want to" [/ QUOTE ] agreed 100%. it's a fine line between loving the sinner and hating the sin, sometimes we tend to want to agree with the sin in the name of tolerance but that is not what God wants us to do in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Leaving a church [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son. That whosoever believed in Him would not parish, but have everlasting life." What part of that has anything to do with how wet you end up? I think that's one of the things that really don't matter as far as salvation is concerned. Some denominations are very arrogant about what they do for themselves spiritually, when it's child-like faith that is all that really matters. [/ QUOTE ] I agree with most of what you have said, but I do believe that baptism is an essential step in salvation. If it wasn't important why did Christ being sinless show an example by being baptised? I think we all can agree that Belief in Christ, and good works will earn salvation......... [/ QUOTE ] While I personally have been baptized, I do not believe that a person has to be baptized to be saved and I would agree with what John says here. My personal thoughts are that Jesus died to give us all the opportunity to be saved unconditionally so long as we accept him and have faith. I heard something rather disturbing, at least to me anyways, from a pentecostal preacher not too long back that kind of runs along these lines in a way. Sorry Mark, not trying to hijack, but since this is kind of brought up here about baptisms and salvation thought I would throw this out there. This preacher, had a lot of insight and he strongly encouraged me to get back into church, but anyways one conversation we had, he told me that babies and very young children did not necessarily go to heaven. They had to be born of parents that both were of faith in order for them to be accepted and to make it to heaven. Kind of wonder if anyone else has any perspective on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Leaving a church Here's mine wtnhunt. The bible clearly says that the wages of sin is death (eternal), and it also says that everyone is born with the sin nature. Where I differ with your penticostal friend is with this. At what age is a person capable of sin? I beilieve there is not an answer because it is different for everyone. My son who is 18 months lives on instinct. He does everything because he needs or wants. While he does have the nature to sin, I don't believe that he has the understanding of sin therefore by defalt he lacks the capability to sin. If he has not commited sin he is rightous in Gods eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dg Posted January 10, 2007 Report Share Posted January 10, 2007 Re: Leaving a church So few posters here, so many different views. Now multiply it by millions and you can see why religion is so volatile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: Leaving a church [ QUOTE ] John 3:16 says "For God so loved the world that he gave His one and only Son. That whosoever believed in Him would not parish, but have everlasting life." What part of that has anything to do with how wet you end up? I think that's one of the things that really don't matter as far as salvation is concerned. Some denominations are very arrogant about what they do for themselves spiritually, when it's child-like faith that is all that really matters. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, it is child-like faith, but I think we need to ask ourselves, "what does believing in Jesus mean?" Well, the Angle of the Lord told Mary to call his name Emanuel, which means "God with us", so to believe in Jesus is to believe in God the Father. Jesus is also called "The word made flesh". So to believe in Jesus means you must also believe in and trust the word of God. Jesus is also called "the spotless lamb, that was led to the slaughter in our place". So you must believe that you are the one who really deserved to be led to the slaughter, and not him, but he did it to save you, and to take your place. To believe God's word to be true, and to believe that Jesus is that word made flesh, means that if God's word is perverted and changed, then you also change who Jesus is, and are believing in a different Jesus, than the one mentioned in scripture. It may sound complicated, but it's not at all. Jesus warned us that in the end times, there would be apostasy (falling away from sound scriptural doctrine) in the church. Why would he even warn us of such a thing, if it wasn't important? So to be part of that falling away crowd, is dangerous because you also have to change which Jesus you are believing in. The Jesus of your or others imaginations, or the Jesus of truth. Jesus of Nazareth, is a lot more than just a name. I've left a few churches because of the falling away from sound doctrine issues, and I really don't fault Mark for it either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Re: Leaving a church that is a good statement Buckee! makes alot of sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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