muggs Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... Todd, wouldn't you say that making it to 19 playoff games is pretty impressive? Not sure how many NFL coaches can claim that...past or present. I think Marty's record just show the playoffs are tough games. Heck, he didn't have the better team when he took Kosar and the Browns up against Elway and the Broncos...and it showed. This time, he was facing Tom Brady, and he did more than enough to win that game. I think bum Parker should be cut...he had a ton of drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogdoc Posted January 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... yes--19 playoff games is very impressive--but to be considered among the best you have to start winning more than he has--and eventually win the big one. If not he will go down in history as a coach that couldn't win the big games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... Eric. Simple question. How many AFC championships has Marty won? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... First of all muggsy Einstein he has been in 18 playoff games...lost 13 of them. That's bad....real bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... how many times did Cowher make it to the playoffs before he finally won it all John? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... Question for everyone. If Marty was the coach of the Montana led 49ers, or the Aikman led Cowboys, or the Brady led Pats. Do you all think he'd still just automatically lose playoff games because his name in Marty Shottenheimer? (no clue how he's spells it.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... Cowher has had his moments too, he's been to conservative at times and lost big home playoff games to teams he had no business losing too but...... Cowher has been in 20 playoff games by my count and won 12 of them including 2 AFC Championships and 1 Super Bowl. That's a ton better then Schottenheimer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... 4 of those wins came last year right? and why don't you answer the question I asked everyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] 4 of those wins game last year right? and why don't you answer the question I asked everyone? [/ QUOTE ] Because that post didnt exist yet when I replied the last time DB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] 4 of those wins game last year right? and why don't you answer the question I asked everyone? [/ QUOTE ] Because that post didnt exist yet when I replied the last time DB. [/ QUOTE ] you do realize you just could have answered the question with that post, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] Question for everyone. If Marty was the coach of the Montana led 49ers, or the Aikman led Cowboys, or the Brady led Pats. [/ QUOTE ] For some reason think Marty might have been on with the KC Chiefs when they had a old wore out Montana and Marcus Allen. Cannot remember right now for sure if Marty was with the Chiefs when they had Montana or not, but I go back to my example of Marino and team leaders. Shula was considered a great coach, he had one of the greatest in many opinions(not mine personally) quarterbacks of all time, and he could never win a superbowl with him. Why with such a great qb was this great coach unable to win the big game? With Shulas history, he obviously had the ability to to reachout to his players and get them mentally prepared. Guess my point is that coaches can be good or even great coaches and have the misfortune of just being beaten by better teams or teams with better leaders in the key positions. No doubt Brady in this time right here and now is the best composed qb in the game. He keeps his cool and his presence and command in the game seems to wear off on the players around him. A true leader. He is what Montana was. Bill Walsh was a great coach, without Montana would he have had his success? I highly doubt it. Would that make him a coach that would be viewed as being not as good? Maybe so, maybe not. What about Reeves and Elway? They got so close so many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... So you're not going to answer my question? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] So you're not going to answer my question? [/ QUOTE ] AFC titles...none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdvantageTimberLou Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] Eric. Simple question. How many AFC championships has Marty won? [/ QUOTE ] I wish the Lions would hire Marty, at least we would know what a playoff game feels like! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So you're not going to answer my question? [/ QUOTE ] AFC titles...none. [/ QUOTE ] And you don't see a pattern there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So you're not going to answer my question? [/ QUOTE ] AFC titles...none. [/ QUOTE ] And you don't see a pattern there? [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, you're right Chris. The guy can complete build the Chargers into a solid AFC team...lead them to a 14-2 record with a first year QB, and then as soon as the calendar says its January...the guy morphs into his Jeckle side and just can't win a playoff game. Like I say...there's two fumbles (one last week) that costs the guy 2 victories right there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So you're not going to answer my question? [/ QUOTE ] AFC titles...none. [/ QUOTE ] And you don't see a pattern there? [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, you're right Chris. The guy can complete build the Chargers into a solid AFC team...lead them to a 14-2 record with a first year QB, and then as soon as the calendar says its January...the guy morphs into his Jeckle side and just can't win a playoff game. [/ QUOTE ] FINALLY! You got it. I'm so proud of you. Mart can't win the big one, and I'm right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] So you're not going to answer my question? [/ QUOTE ] AFC titles...none. [/ QUOTE ] And you don't see a pattern there? [/ QUOTE ] I'm sorry, you're right Chris. The guy can complete build the Chargers into a solid AFC team...lead them to a 14-2 record with a first year QB, and then as soon as the calendar says its January...the guy morphs into his Jeckle side and just can't win a playoff game. Like I say...there's two fumbles (one last week) that costs the guy 2 victories right there... [/ QUOTE ] 14-2 is weak. Cowher led the Steelers to a 15-1 record with a rookie QB. BTW--muggs I must say I am very proud to see you are sticking up for a born and raised Pittsburgh guy. I knew you would see the light eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... Make no mistake John, I'm not necessarily sticking up for Marty. I do think he's a class guy, and a good coach, but I'm more concerned with the insanity that surrounds sports...and I sometimes feel the need to bring some of this sensationalism down a few pegs. How so many people can believe that there's some mystical reason Marty can't win a playoff game is beyond me. Sure, the guy has a poor playoff record...but there are so many variables that have accounted for that record its beyond comprehension. I'd have to go back and research each one of his playoff losses...but I'm sure quite of few of them were his players fault. The two that stick out are the INT that was fumbled back to the Pats last week, and Ernest Byners "Fumble" which will live in Cleveland's folk lore forever. As I said in numerous replies...the only thing I can fault the guy for was going to the prevent defense against Elway and the Broncos way to early. That led to "The Drive" and jettisoned Elway to legendary status. Bonehead move right there, that one is on him...I stress the word ONE. Now there...I've provided you and Chris with a well-thought-out and logical argument. If you guys can do the same, I'll continue the debate, but if you guys can only come at me with "ummm...Marty...playoff...bad...can't win" skip it. It lacks content and reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tominator Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] Now there...I've provided you and Chris with a well-thought-out and logical arguement. If you guys can do the same, I'll continue the debate, but if you guys can only come at me with [/ QUOTE ] The only thing I'm going to say to that is that you spelled argument wrong. DB P.S--Mart can't win the big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Now there...I've provided you and Chris with a well-thought-out and logical arguement. If you guys can do the same, I'll continue the debate, but if you guys can only come at me with [/ QUOTE ] The only thing I'm going to say to that is that you spelled argument wrong. DB P.S--Mart can't win the big one. [/ QUOTE ] Yup, just like I thought...you got nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... Alright, I'll entertain you muggsy boy...... You are pretty much making the argument for me when you talk about going into the prevent defense so early against Denver. The guy becomes so freaking conservative in big games or just makes the dumbest decisions. Case in point, in the second half of Sundays game he goes for a 4th and 11 from the 30 instead of trying a 47 yard field goal with a kicker who hasn't missed at home since 2004. Then at the end of the game he trusts him with a 54 yarder to tie it? Now I'm not really going to fault him on that one because there was only 8 seconds left. But, if you dont trust the guy at 47 yards then you better use that 8 seconds to run a quick sideline pattern to get closer then 54. The playoff game against the Jets in 04 was even worse. I don't know if you remember that game but my gosh did he curl up into a shell especially at the end of regualtion and overtime trying to set up game winning field goals. I can remember him basically shutting drives down after his offense was marching it up and down the field the second they got within the 50 yard field goal range. And they ended up missing two kicks to win it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] Case in point, in the second half of Sundays game he goes for a 4th and 11 from the 30 instead of trying a 47 yard field goal with a kicker who hasn't missed at home since 2004. Then at the end of the game he trusts him with a 54 yarder to tie it? Now I'm not really going to fault him on that one because there was only 8 seconds left. But, if you dont trust the guy at 47 yards then you better use that 8 seconds to run a quick sideline pattern to get closer then 54. [/ QUOTE ] We can sit here and second guess anybody over and over...but is a 54 yarder that big of a kick for a guy who hasn't missed at home? And what if Marty does run a quick sideline pattern, the receiver catches it (that would be shocking considerng the amount of drops his team had) but fails to get out of bounds and the clock runs out? Imagine what you boys would be saying about him after something like that. [ QUOTE ] I can remember him basically shutting drives down after his offense was marching it up and down the field the second they got within the 50 yard field goal range. And they ended up missing two kicks to win it. [/ QUOTE ] Interesting. Did Marty miss the kicks, or did the place kickers miss those kicks? I seem to remember Mike Vanderjerk missing a big kick for Indy last season...using your rationale, that must have been Dungy's fault. I see nothing wrong with letting a PRO kicker try an win an OT for you. You turn the ball over, you lose. Its called sudden death. If Marty puts his team and kicker in position to win the game...he's done his job. Its not his fault the kicker couldn't come through and do his own job. Again...don't let things like ESPN mold your thought process. That network is only good for one thing, and that's Stuart Scotts disturbing appearance and his creation of such catchy phrases like "cooler than the other side of the pillow." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckbuster11 Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] I see nothing wrong with letting a PRO kicker try an win an OT for you. You turn the ball over, you lose. Its called sudden death. [/ QUOTE ] Me neither, but why make it harder then it has to be. They are few kickers ever that are going to consistently nail 40+ yarders to win big games. If you are moving the ball up and down the field, don't shut it down. Play to win the freaking game, be smart, but don't curl up into a ball. BTW---you don't lose if you turn the ball over...the other team has to score first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted January 18, 2007 Report Share Posted January 18, 2007 Re: Marty loses another one.... [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I see nothing wrong with letting a PRO kicker try an win an OT for you. You turn the ball over, you lose. Its called sudden death. [/ QUOTE ] Me neither, but why make it harder then it has to be. They are few kickers ever that are going to consistently nail 40+ yarders to win big games. If you are moving the ball up and down the field, don't shut it down. Play to win the freaking game, be smart, but don't curl up into a ball. BTW---you don't lose if you turn the ball over...the other team has to score first. [/ QUOTE ] So you think most coaches are airing it out in OT...because after all "if you turn it over you don't lose." I'm pretty sure 100% of NFL coaches are going to play it conservative in OT and they're playing for field goals 100% of the time. That being said, I'm not a fan of overly conservative coaches. I'm sure you've read my takes on Tom's boy Jim Tressel. I think Tressel is a great coach just like Marty...but over conservative play calling (both offensive and defensive) have cost the both of them. That all being said. If that guy holds on to his INT...the whole field goal/sideline pattern thing is a moot point, is it not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.