IRAQ

[dg]

Ok everyone. We all have feelings about this situation (I hope). What I think would be an interesting post would be what you think the USA should do with the Iraq situation. I can see a heated debate almost immediately. So please, ONLY POST WHAT YOU WOULD DO if you were president. DO NOT DEBATE or QUOTE, or COMMENT anothers post good or bad. Just state what and how you would handle it. Don't take so much pride in what you say/think to reply to a difference of opinion unless you plan on running for President in 2008. And if you have a debate, take it to the politics forum. I bet there is someone who will quote, cut/paste, or gripe about or support anothers opinion. Since I started this:

I would ensure the Iraqi police/govt are trained. If trained, do they have enough people. If NO, coerce to get more. If yes, ween the govt of U.S. troops. Not many people learned how to lead by being lead by the hand. They learned by education and then being dropped in the fire, use what they were taught, and then modify that approach to take control the situation. And if they aren't able to handle it, mom and dad (or the US in this situation), will jump in and "help". This is the approach I think we should take. We can always go back in, but let the new countrymen take care of the countrymen.

[Elk_Hunter]

Re: IRAQ

I think the US should pull out most of there troops and train the Iraqies to defend themselves, I alos think that other country's like Canada should send in a feww troops to help peace keep, and rebuild

[hunting_boy]

Re: IRAQ

i would pull all troops out and leave one person in IRAQ and say if whats his anme dont show up in two days we going to bomb the heck outta that place

[arrow32]

Re: IRAQ

We had a debate about this on my forum and one of the guys brought up the point of pulling out all news reports and letting the troops do the reporting on how its going over there.

I say we might as well give that a try and another thing let them do what it takes to win the war and let them get it over with or atleast as much as they can.

[OJR]

Re: IRAQ

I agree with the training for the Iraqi police and army so they can defend themselves.

I also believe that we should be turning more of the police action over to the Iraqi forces everyday! We must get them so they are self-sufficent!

I also believe that all the income from the oil should be divided among the people and raise the standard of living that way! The people of Iraq should be the ones who are hired and doing the work, not some contractor from this country!

[unioncountyslayer]

Re: IRAQ

Get the troops out and wipe IRAQ, IRAN, AFGANISTAN, ETC. off the face of the earth.

[buckee]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

I agree with the training for the Iraqi police and army so they can defend themselves.

I also believe that we should be turning more of the police action over to the Iraqi forces everyday! We must get them so they are self-sufficient!

[/ QUOTE ]

That is what's being done, since the start pretty well. You can't just pull out the troops now before things have been set up properly for them to defend law and order. To do that now, after what that country has been through would not only be suicide for the Iraqis, but suicide for the USA as well.

If the US withdraw now, the country would be taken over by terrorists, and would most likely be just as bad off or worse than before the US invasion. That would be immediately interpreted by the rest of the world, that the US didn't care for the innocent people in the first place.

And don't even bother listening to the liberals...they have no plan.

[drkillemquick]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

I think the US should pull out most of there troops and train the Iraqies to defend themselves, I alos think that other country's like Canada should send in a feww troops to help peace keep, and rebuild

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we are pretty much stretched to our limit in afganistan! I would love to see a larger military in Canada but that could take years to train, equip etc!

[heathcoerracin]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

Get the troops out and wipe IRAQ, IRAN, AFGANISTAN, ETC. off the face of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree...either that or send in Jack Bauer...either one would work

[buckee]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

Get the troops out and wipe IRAQ, IRAN, AFGANISTAN, ETC. off the face of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's what ya call, a far "right" (really far right) idea

[Guest DJR]

Re: IRAQ

Well i just got back e few months ago and going to get ready to go back next year. The only way that place will survive is to get someone like Sadam back into power. Some who they fear, that is the only way. A lot of people just dont realize that is what those people respect and fear. Tey have been fighting too long. More troops less troops and all the training in the world isnt going to help , until they get a boss who says, " do it or else".

[mehunter]

Re: IRAQ

Pull out the troops

[buckee]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

The only way that place will survive is to get someone like Sadam back into power. Some who they fear, that is the only way. A lot of people just dont realize that is what those people respect and fear. Tey have been fighting too long. More troops less troops and all the training in the world isnt going to help , until they get a boss who says, " do it or else".

[/ QUOTE ]

It's called "Stockholm syndrome". Those people have been in fear and under the rule of a tyrant for 40 years. You can't just expect them to all of a sudden come around to our way, or the rest of the world's way of thinking.

40 years...that is a long, long time. Any one 40 years old or less doesn't know any other way.

[dg]

Re: IRAQ

This post was civil. Then "somone" moved it. And then the 1st "quoter" was a moderator not even in the USA and then quoted 3 times. Geesh..........

[buckee]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

This post was civil. Then "somone" moved it. And the the 1st "quoter" was a moderator not even in the USA and then quoted 3 times. Geesh..........

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm confused.

I moved the post, because this is where it belongs, and I'm entitled to my opinion on the war in Iraq, just as much as you are dg. I never bashed anyone for their opinions, just stating my own.

And what the heck is me being Canadian got to do with anything???

[mike]

Re: IRAQ

well put Steve!!!!!! this is a global crisis! i think GW Bush took the fight to there own ground and there is no way out! if we leave all we did was disrupt a nation,if we stay we are occuping iraq and as fast as we deal with the terrorist four more take there place. this whole thing is a religious based war and there is no answer to it! they have been fighting over there since the beginning of time and we can not stop it! they have to decide to stand up and change themselves if they want peace, we can not deliver it to them! i don't think the want it. i haven't heard a good solution yet! why you ask...cause there isn't one! its there world over there they have to change it not us! JMHO!!!!!!

[dg]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

This post was civil. Then "somone" moved it. And the the 1st "quoter" was a moderator not even in the USA and then quoted 3 times. Geesh..........

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm confused.

I moved the post, because this is where it belongs, and I'm entitled to my opinion on the war in Iraq, just as much as you are dg. I never bashed anyone for their opinions, just stating my own.

And what the heck is me being Canadian got to do with anything???

[/ QUOTE ]

The post was nothing but a poll with an open answer. When folks intervene like you with quotes, it becomes a debate and it ruins the input. Thanks! You make your opinions all you want. This is an American situation paid by american blood and dollars. Any other countries involvement has been nothing but political airtime to say they were involved. Sorry. but less than 1% don't mean diddly squat to me. RealTree was started in the good ole USA whether you like it it or not. I'll take everything back if you voted for Bush or Gore and paid taxes in U.S. dollars..................Now that's my opinion I'm entitled to and I don't care who likes it or not.

[drkillemquick]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

This post was civil. Then "somone" moved it. And the the 1st "quoter" was a moderator not even in the USA and then quoted 3 times. Geesh..........

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I'm confused.

I moved the post, because this is where it belongs, and I'm entitled to my opinion on the war in Iraq, just as much as you are dg. I never bashed anyone for their opinions, just stating my own.

And what the heck is me being Canadian got to do with anything???

[/ QUOTE ]

The post was nothing but a poll with an open answer. When folks intervene like you with quotes, it becomes a debate and it ruins the input. Thanks! You make your opinions all you want. This is an American situation paid by american blood and dollars. Any other countries involvement has been nothing but political airtime to say they were involved. Sorry. but less than 1% don't mean diddly squat to me. RealTree was started in the good ole USA whether you like it it or not. I'll take everything back if you voted for Bush or Gore and paid taxes in U.S. dollars..................Now that's my opinion I'm entitled to and I don't care who likes it or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

[unioncountyslayer]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]

Get the troops out and wipe IRAQ, IRAN, AFGANISTAN, ETC. off the face of the earth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that's what ya call, a far "right" (really far right) idea

[/ QUOTE ]

You've got a right wing, and a left wing Steve. I prefer to use my right, all the way out to the tip.

[johnf]

Re: IRAQ

Hey I'm going to break from the norm here and answer the question.

BTW I've never even been to Canada.

Much as I hate to admit to it, even though the situation is a bit of a quagmire over there, I think the only course of action is to stay over there and around the area.

If we pull out before the terrorist give up then in thier eyes we lost. Even if there are only two of them left, they will convince the whole muslem world that they drove out the weak infadels and we will be dealing with this mess over here.

I think not only should we stay there, but we should seek out and destroy every camp, every house and every building that we even think might be used by them. Beat them at their own game. Make it so difficult for them that they don't want to hassle with it. That's what they are trying to do to us.

Make no mistake, this is a holy war. Untill this kind of hate religion is wiped off the face of the earth we will have this problem.

There is a reason why biblical wars were of "biblical proportions" If you wipe them out, you don't have to deal with them anymore.

[buckee]

Re: IRAQ

I haven't attacked anyone in here dg. so why are you attacking me???

Just because someone quotes someone in their reply, does not mean they are trying to argue with them or blast them for anything.. It just makes it a lot easier than repeating what they or thousands of others have already said in the past and present, and adding your own opinion to it. I could go back and change all my posts to reflect that, but it seems a little useless since you've already attacked me in this thread, not once, but twice and tried to make me out to be some bad guy here.

And as far as this being as you say "an American situation only", you are dead, dead wrong, and just because our stupid government didn't back the US in a much more substantial way, that's not my fault either. And if I "WAS" an American, I would have definitely voted for Bush.

I'm not even going to address your "RealTree was started in the USA " response.

Would it have made any difference if My posts read as such instead of quotes:

Many folks keep saying they should be training the Iraqi police and army so they can defend themselves, but that is exactly what they have been doing, (or trying to do) all along. I agree with this approach and don't see any other option.

Many folks have said they think that we should be turning more of the police action over to the Iraqi forces everyday! We must get them so they are self-sufficient! I think that has been the plan all along, but it's taking a lot longer to implement, than expected. Such is the nature of this unconventional war.

Pulling the troops now before things have been set up properly for them to defend law and order by themselves would be a tragedy. To do that now, after what that country has been through for the last 40 years and for especially the last 4+ years, would not only be suicide for the Iraqis, but suicide for the USA as well. The USA must stay it's course, in my opinion.

If the US withdrew now, the country would be taken over by terrorists, and would most likely be just as bad off or worse than before the US invasion. That would be immediately interpreted by the rest of the world, that the US didn't care for the innocent people in the first place.

And don't even bother listening to the liberals...they have no plan. Their only plan is Peace at any price.

I've also heard many say, and not just a few in the forums, to get the troops out and wipe the whole middle east off the face of the earth. That's a little too far, far right thinking in my opinion, and would be a suicidal move on the USA's part.

Many have also stated that the best solution would be to just leave them to their on their own and welcome back to power someone like Saddam. Someone who they fear, because it is the only way they know. Yes they were functioning under fearful respect. The thinking that all the training in the world isn't going to help , until they get a boss who says, " do it or else" is just bowing to defeat.

These people are suffering from "Stockholm syndrome". They have been in fear and under the rule of a tyrant for 40 years. You can't just expect them to all of a sudden come around to our way, or the rest of the world's way of thinking.

40 years... is a long, long time. Any one 40 years old or less doesn't even know any other way and it will take time for them to see it.

This post was civil until dg attacked me, because I went against his rules of answering this post. I never attacked anyone, but was attacked myself, simple because I'm a Canuck.

I apologize for quoting anyone, but it's not like I/we haven't heard these quotes thousands of times on the news already, or from friends and neighbours. They are part of my opinion and response to the original question of this thread. "What would I do" I think president Bush is doing all that can be done (under the circumstances), so far and can't really see what other way they could have played it, to get to where we are today.. It's just taking longer than expected, and this spoilt nation (and I include Canada in this too) demands a distinct timetable as to when it will end, so they can get back to living their happy little lives without being disturbed.

To demand a timetable for this war is just asking too much of any president. This is an unconventional war, against an unconventional foe, and each day that it is fought, it is fought one day at a time.

When the majority of Iraqi's wake up from their 40 years of being held captive, and start to want something better for themselves, then, and only then will we be able to start withdrawing the troops. Many have started waking up, and our/their only hope is that many more follow. JMHO !!!

And the next time I hear Canadians are not welcome to respond to a post like this, because it doesn't concern them, it gets locked.

[johnf]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

I haven't attacked anyone in here dg. so why are you attacking me???

Just because someone quotes someone in their reply, does not mean they are trying to argue with them or blast them for anything.. It just makes it a lot easier than repeating what they or thousands of others have already said in the past and present, and adding your own opinion to it. I could go back and change all my posts to reflect that, but it seems a little useless since you've already attacked me in this thread, not once, but twice and tried to make me out to be some bad guy here.

And as far as this being as you say "an American situation only", you are dead, dead wrong, and just because our stupid government didn't back the US in a much more substantial way, that's not my fault either. And if I "WAS" an American, I would have definitely voted for Bush.

I'm not even going to address your "RealTree was started in the USA " response.

Would it have made any difference if My posts read as such instead of quotes:

Many folks keep saying they should be training the Iraqi police and army so they can defend themselves, but that is exactly what they have been doing, (or trying to do) all along. I agree with this approach and don't see any other option.

Many folks have said they think that we should be turning more of the police action over to the Iraqi forces everyday! We must get them so they are self-sufficient! I think that has been the plan all along, but it's taking a lot longer to implement, than expected. Such is the nature of this unconventional war.

Pulling the troops now before things have been set up properly for them to defend law and order by themselves would be a tragedy. To do that now, after what that country has been through for the last 40 years and for especially the last 4+ years, would not only be suicide for the Iraqis, but suicide for the USA as well. The USA must stay it's course, in my opinion.

If the US withdrew now, the country would be taken over by terrorists, and would most likely be just as bad off or worse than before the US invasion. That would be immediately interpreted by the rest of the world, that the US didn't care for the innocent people in the first place.

And don't even bother listening to the liberals...they have no plan. Their only plan is Peace at any price.

I've also heard many say, and not just a few in the forums, to get the troops out and wipe the whole middle east off the face of the earth. That's a little too far, far right thinking in my opinion, and would be a suicidal move on the USA's part.

Many have also stated that the best solution would be to just leave them to their on their own and welcome back to power someone like Saddam. Someone who they fear, because it is the only way they know. Yes they were functioning under fearful respect. The thinking that all the training in the world isn't going to help , until they get a boss who says, " do it or else" is just bowing to defeat.

These people are suffering from "Stockholm syndrome". They have been in fear and under the rule of a tyrant for 40 years. You can't just expect them to all of a sudden come around to our way, or the rest of the world's way of thinking.

40 years... is a long, long time. Any one 40 years old or less doesn't even know any other way and it will take time for them to see it.

This post was civil until dg attacked me, because I went against his rules of answering this post. I never attacked anyone, but was attacked myself, simple because I'm a Canuck.

I apologize for quoting anyone, but it's not like I/we haven't heard these quotes thousands of times on the news already, or from friends and neighbours. They are part of my opinion and response to the original question of this thread. "What would I do" I think president Bush is doing all that can be done (under the circumstances), so far and can't really see what other way they could have played it, to get to where we are today.. It's just taking longer than expected, and this spoilt nation (and I include Canada in this too) demands a distinct timetable as to when it will end, so they can get back to living their happy little lives without being disturbed.

To demand a timetable for this war is just asking too much of any president. This is an unconventional war, against an unconventional foe, and each day that it is fought, it is fought one day at a time.

When the majority of Iraqi's wake up from their 40 years of being held captive, and start to want something better for themselves, then, and only then will we be able to start withdrawing the troops. Many have started waking up, and our/their only hope is that many more follow. JMHO !!!

And the next time I hear Canadians are not welcome to respond to a post like this, because it doesn't concern them, it gets locked.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, what he said. Except for the thing about not wiping them off the face of the earth thing. We wouldn't be very popular, but the problem would be gone.

I guess in my location it should read "Just a bit right of Buckee."

[wtnhunt]

Re: IRAQ

This is a political post and belongs here. Steve was right in moving it.

As for what would I do if I were president, I really honestly don't know that I would do anything differently. It is easy for me to criticize not being in that position, but one thing is certain, there is no one simple solution that will not be ridiculed by millions of people with whatever is done.

We pull out, Iraq goes into full blown civil war, terrorists take over and all was for naught and the lost lives we have suffered would have been for a cause that was not supported to the end all because of the political nonsense in Washington that sadly is ruining this once great country. If we continue on we will without a doubt lose more fine men and women, but we may end up with a stable Iraq eventually that will be able to stand on its own. I am glad I don't have to make those decisions, and am sure that the burden of those lost lives on your shoulders is not an easy one to bear, but the consideration of attacks on our homeland that might possibly occur or have occurred had those terrorists that were taking safe haven where we have rooted them out might have been much more significant than the lives we have lost to date by our service men and women.

Guess if the generals were telling me they need more soldiers I would have to commit despite what congress is doing to the country with their intentions of splitting and gaining political power. It is a lose lose situation politically, but can be a win for our country and for the people of Iraq if we have the courage and patience to stick with it. That said, I support our commander in chief.

[Texan_Til_I_Die]

Re: IRAQ

To quote myself from an earlier post...

[ QUOTE ]

If we pull out of Iraq now, it will become what Afghanistan was; a safe training camp for terrorists to plan and carry out more 9/11 style attacks on America and our allies.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what would I do if I were President?

I would remove all "imbedded" reporters from US military units.

I would not offer US military protection to any members of the press.

I would jam or block all cell and satellite phone signals in the region that were not of US military or diplomatic origin.

I would turn control of the ground operations over to Special Forces. They would plan and execute the majority of the missions while our conventional forces acted as a ready strike force to move in quickly whenever needed.

I would require the Iraqi government to conform to a predetermined plan for shifting military operations from US forces to Iraqi forces.

I would seel the borders between Iraq and Iran and between Iraq and Syria to slow or stop the influx of foreign fighters, money and weapons in the country.

I would openly confront Saudi Arabia concerning their support for terrorist factions operating in the region.

And lastly, I would make life miserable for any member of Congress who attempted to interfere with the successful execution of the war.

[RangerClay]

Re: IRAQ

[ QUOTE ]

So what would I do if I were President?

I would remove all "imbedded" reporters from US military units.

I would not offer US military protection to any members of the press.

I would jam or block all cell and satellite phone signals in the region that were not of US military or diplomatic origin.

I would turn control of the ground operations over to Special Forces. They would plan and execute the majority of the missions while our conventional forces acted as a ready strike force to move in quickly whenever needed.

I would require the Iraqi government to conform to a predetermined plan for shifting military operations from US forces to Iraqi forces.

I would seel the borders between Iraq and Iran and between Iraq and Syria to slow or stop the influx of foreign fighters, money and weapons in the country.

I would openly confront Saudi Arabia concerning their support for terrorist factions operating in the region.

And lastly, I would make life miserable for any member of Congress who attempted to interfere with the successful execution of the war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tex has said pretty much what I was thinking.

I would add one more thing. Once some form of stabilization is found I would move a majority of the troops to the Iran border. Then I would ask them if they wanted to reopen nuclear arms talks.