brad dryden Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 I have been muzzloading for about 3 years now but I dont hit it alot just a couple times a year. Well I have a CVA optima and I can get this thing to site in. I can get as close as shooting a 8 in group at 70yds maybe a little better. When I think I have it shooting a good group and the next day shoot it its off. I have tried about 3 diffrent kinds of bullits and 2 diffrent kinds of powders and diffrent combinations. I clean after every shot its shoot good after it shoots the third round out then slowly gets more off. I have had a TC that I had with the same issue. Also have used lubrications. I have missed two deer so far with it all under 70yds. I would like to replace the shotgun for it but cant get it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right Actually, it could be a few different things. Like all shooting the key to accuracy is consistancy. You have to throw the charge the same way every time. This is what makes pellets so appealing to some is its the same charge every time. You can learn to throw the same charge everytime but it takes practice. I now weigh my charges on a scale. Weight to volume is not a one for one but it can be done safely and my groups shrunk a lot. I throw three charges with my desired amount by volume and weigh each one. I take the average weight and make each of them that amount. Seat the bullet the same each time. As a range safety officer, I have seen all kinds of methods of seating the bullets. Some slam the ramrod down on the seated bullets to "pack the powder". They wonder why they get big groups. All that does is deform the bullets tip and ogive. Seat the bullet firmly but gently on the powder. Once it is sitting on top of the charge, it is good to go. Ignition source. Maybe you should try a different primer. I hate the 209 ignition source. I have converted all of my blackpowder guns to use either musket caps or small pistol primers. I only use 209 primers in my Savage for smokeless powder. Maybe a new bullet choice. I know you said you tried some different combinations, but it could be that. I like the theory behind the powerbelts. I like how easy they are to load, but none of my guns shoot them well enough for me to use them. I had a heck of a time finding a good bullet/load combo in my Knight Disc Elite in .50 cal. I tried 6 different bullets before I found one that shot good enough to use. Stick with it and keep on testing. Range time is always good. You will have a lot of time before the season to wring it out and find a good working combination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeWalker Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right AJ...why don't you like the 209 primer style of ignition ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right brad, Just what are you using for bullets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tp793 Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right [ QUOTE ] AJ...why don't you like the 209 primer style of ignition ?? [/ QUOTE ] I was wondering the same thing? As far as the sighting in problem..are you sure its not your scope? I have the same gun and have had no problems sighting it in and have only missed one deer so far, but that was my fault. I'm not trying to offend you or anything, but it could either be you or the scope. Are you using a solid rest, and is your scope on tight? Just a few things to think about if you hadn't already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right Way too strong for black powder, Pyrodex, Triple 7 and all of the other similar powders. The 209 primer creates too much soot in the barrel also. When I have switched to the musket caps or the small pistol primers, the cleanliness of the barrel is much better, the velocity did not go down, and the groups shrunk. When I first started using the Precision Rifle bullets I could not get them to group inside 4" at 100 yards. I called and telked iwth Cecil on a few occasions trying to figure out the problems. He got me to swab between shots and while that helped a little, it was still giving me huge groups. Cecil finally asked me which ignition source I was using and when I mentioned the 209, the light went on. I switched to musket caps and the groups dropped to under 1" only by changing the ignition source. In all of the inlines I have played with which include T/C Black Diamond, Rem 700 ML, custom barreled Rem 700 ML, 3 different Knight DISC Elites, Knight Wolverine, and my T/C Encore handgun, all have shot better since I have moved away from the 209 primers. I now use the musket caps in my Rem 700 MLs and the T/C Black Diamond, and I have switched the Encore to use small pistol primers in a breechplug modified to use .25 ACP cases. My Knight's that have DISC systems use a Vari Flame adapter that allows the use of small pistol primers. The 209 primer may give an occasional good group, but consistant every time groups are what I demand. I would rather have consistant 2" groups rather than occasional 1" groups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad dryden Posted January 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right Ive used Horndy,round balls,powerbelts. The best so far that I have had luck with is the powerbelts hollow points and the round balls. But im sure some of it has to do with the the bullit get a little spots when putting it in. I use the triple 7 becouse its cleaner. I do have the other breach plug to shoot caps and the caps becouse thats what I shot with. Thanks for all this info. Also I have check the scope and this happens even when I shoot open sited. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right I would really go after that barrel. I use Brownell's sabot cleaner to get out plastic residue. Don't know if you ever shot sabot's though. Brush it real good. Then brush it again. Your's might be a candidate for lapping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeWalker Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right So AJ.....since I am not an expeet on primers, what primers would you suggest for my TC Encore-50, that wouldn't require any additional changes ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Posted January 20, 2007 Report Share Posted January 20, 2007 Re: Cant get it right If you want to use the 209 primers you can try the New Triple Se7en® Muzzle Loading Primer that Winchester has out. It is different than their standard W209 primer. It is supposed to be redesigned for use specifically in muzzleloaders. They do say not for use in shotshell reloading. It's supposed to cut the crud that is left behind. Maybe, we'll see. You can always use the Vari Flame Adapters that will work with your breechplug. They use small pistol or rifle primers instead of the 209 primers. Both of these will require no configuration changes to your rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slugger Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Cant get it right i used the t7 primers from winchester this year. i would say it cut the fouling down by 20-30% and my groups went from 2 in at 50 yards to about 3/4 in at 50. swabing between shots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreeWalker Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Cant get it right Sweet....the Triple -7 primers are the ones I bought, and didn't even know.......I just asked the clerk to give me some primers for my TC-Encore.......and that's what he gave me.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
too_pointer Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Cant get it right I'm still using the #209 primers, but my accuracy has room for improvement. I will buy those Triple -7 primers and see if they give me a more accurate group That sure is an easy try !! too_ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 21, 2007 Report Share Posted January 21, 2007 Re: Cant get it right Remington also has a primer out for the MZ, if you can't find the Win. I haven't tried them but I am going to. It's at least an excuse to get out the old smoker and have a little fun with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad dryden Posted January 22, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Re: Cant get it right This has been some awsome info guys. It also looks like some other people learned some things too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnf Posted January 22, 2007 Report Share Posted January 22, 2007 Re: Cant get it right [ QUOTE ] As far as the sighting in problem..are you sure its not your scope? [/ QUOTE ] That's exactly what I was thinking. I've got a 25-06 that I spent over $100 trying to sight in. The cross hairs were moving and the rail was bent, so I put a new scope and scope rail on it. After mounting the scope and sighting it in by looking down the barrel, I had it sighted in with 3 shots. Before I did this, I couldn't hit a pie plate at 25 yards. Now it shoots 1" group at 150 yards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted January 23, 2007 Report Share Posted January 23, 2007 Re: Cant get it right Could be a number of things like AJ has pointed out. I dont like the 209 primers either honestly Clay. I am using the hot remington no 11 percusssion caps, never had a misfire with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETMGROW Posted January 24, 2007 Report Share Posted January 24, 2007 Re: Cant get it right brad, now don't let us down. When, and you will, you get your problem sorted out and corrected get back on here and let us know what the fix was. That is when all the info becomes useful. Good luck. Lynn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowana Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Re: Cant get it right Thanks!! I'm always searching for that Ultimate group/consistancy. I ordered the adapter Kit.....Now I finally have a home for the 5000 small rifle primers I accidently bought at an auction!! Hope they still work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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