Strut10 Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] and Strut...if you want to make threats, you don't have to be so subtle about it, just come out and say it...I'll respect you more for it. Even they I'm not exactly worried about it either way. [/ QUOTE ] I'm done here. It just ain't worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] The Civil conflict our presence in Iraq has created will go on for thousands of years...as it always has. [/ QUOTE ] Wait a second, if that conflict has been going on for a long, long time, how did our presence there cause it? Actually, I'm not ready to give up on those people yet. They're just as human as you and I, and like any human that tastes liberty and freedom, they'll want more of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] Actually, I'm not ready to give up on those people yet. They're just as human as you and I, and like any human that tastes liberty and freedom, they'll want more of it. [/ QUOTE ] That's what it's really all about...right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted February 6, 2007 Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] I'm done here. It just ain't worth it. [/ QUOTE ] Depends on who has the heavier hammer...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 6, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] Wait a second, if that conflict has been going on for a long, long time, how did our presence there cause it? [/ QUOTE ] Tex- Going in there didn't start it...but it did RE-start it. Basically just opened up a can a worms we'll never be able to close. Its unwinnable, and after we removed Saddam from power we've stopped accomplishing anything. In a perfect world, I'd say lets stay and set up a Decomcracy. But it ain't gonna happen boys. Far as I know, North Vietnam and North Korea are still contries, aren't they? I guess its easy to sit back and stay "stay the course" when you're not dying over there, or dealing with the loss of a loved one who was killed over there. You can spin it with "helping these people" or "protecting our freedom" but spinning is all it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The Civil conflict our presence in Iraq has created will go on for thousands of years...as it always has. [/ QUOTE ] Wait a second, if that conflict has been going on for a long, long time, how did our presence there cause it? Actually, I'm not ready to give up on those people yet. They're just as human as you and I, and like any human that tastes liberty and freedom, they'll want more of it. [/ QUOTE ] hmmm sorry but i dont buy this at all,First off white christians have been trying to do this to this same country since what the early 1900s if it hasnt worked in the last 100 years it aint gonna work now. The commies blew there own foot off if it wasnt for black gold Muslim dictators would to.( Another idea for the billion or so bucks we have spent in Iraq!!!!) they are far from being like you and I We dont blow each other up. I cant stand(hate would be a far better word) hearing some religious idiot preach from a box but does that mean i go to a church and blow it up??? (awnser is no) you guys complain day in and day out about the democrats but i havnt heard of any car bombs going off at the Dem. National Convention or vise versa. During world war 2 americans fought around and next to people of every ethnic race possible, There discriptions of the people of the middle east? Sly,dishonest snakes who would smile in your face then rob/stab you and there brother, mother, sister as soon as a back was turned. If you would like to compare your self to them fine but please stop there. Im not saying all are like that but from what Ive seen living in NYC and from what I have read coming from the mouths of some fine soilders. i have to wonder. We as Americans are far far far from being anything like them. Swamp hunter you said thats the argument dems always make? never having an awnser okay here we go Alt. Fuels(this is a two sided sword because it would also take care of the middle east) Education Healthcare Enviroment Home Land Sec. There are 4 from left field, spread spread that 20billion or whatever it is there and i think it has been FAR better spent. so i guess im not done with this post after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] they are far from being like you and I We dont blow each other up. [/ QUOTE ] No Aaron you or I do not blow each other up, but there is violent crime we cannot control right here in our own country. There is political difference that is splitting this country all because of popularity and the feeling of needing power being more important than holding the country united. While there is not a civil war here in this country there is murder, gang violence, and such that is not able to be controlled. Even in a democracy or republic or whatever type of free society there will be nuts out there who will kill others and have no regard for human life. We have even had home grown terrorists here who have had no association with the extremist groups. Do we then say because there are these murders by these people from gangs and the school shooters that it is a failure on the part of our government and we are destined to fail and just give up, or do we try to work harder at solving the problems? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] There are 4 from left field, spread spread that 20billion or whatever it is there and i think it has been FAR better spent. [/ QUOTE ] It's actually 1.2 trillion Aaron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] or do we try to work harder at solving the problems? [/ QUOTE ] Again, William, how do you propose we "work harder to solve this problem"? Obviously dumping a trillion dollars and 3,000+ lives into Iraq hasn't worked. Lord knows continuing to dump a trillion more dollars and even more young American lives into the same drain won't do anything either. Now, I'm not saying that is your definition of working harder...but what is? What is the solution? We are not accomplishing anything. If anyone can tell me what they think we are accomplishing, I'll take it in with an open mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texan_Til_I_Die Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] We are not accomplishing anything. If anyone can tell me what they think we are accomplishing, I'll take it in with an open mind. [/ QUOTE ] I don't usually answer a question with another question, but in this case I think it's highly appropriate. What do you think will happen in the Middle East and in America if we pull out of Iraq and the rest of the region right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] What do you think will happen in the Middle East and in America if we pull out of Iraq and the rest of the region right now? [/ QUOTE ] 1.) Young Americans would not be losing their lives in a conflict that will never end in what we might call a victory. 2.) Taxpayers dollars will no longer be flused down the toilet. Now, before you come back with the arguement that an attack in our country is an unavoidable result of the U.S. pulling out of Iraq. Let me ask you this. If our Nation would have spent 1.2 trillion on intelligence and Homeland Security...wouldn't that help to prevent attacks? Not to mention, the U.S. involving itself in a "Global Police" role is what has created the anti-American aggression in the first place. Anyway, oil and the Bin Laden/ Bush connection is hardly a coincidence if you logicallly look at the 9/11 attack. Its documented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] Not to mention, the U.S. involving itself in a "Global Police" role is what has created the anti-American aggression in the first place. [/ QUOTE ] I thought we established that this sentiment was not created by this war. Seems this topic is going nowhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Not to mention, the U.S. involving itself in a "Global Police" role is what has created the anti-American aggression in the first place. [/ QUOTE ] I thought we established that this sentiment was not created by this war. Seems this topic is going nowhere. [/ QUOTE ] My statement didn't single out this war. The U.S. has been the global police since it came to be the World's dominant military power....after the conclusion of WWII. Anti-American sentiment has been around for a very long time. Its not just some new phenomenon that started in 2001. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] they are far from being like you and I We dont blow each other up. [/ QUOTE ] No Aaron you or I do not blow each other up, but there is violent crime we cannot control right here in our own country. There is political difference that is splitting this country all because of popularity and the feeling of needing power being more important than holding the country united. While there is not a civil war here in this country there is murder, gang violence, and such that is not able to be controlled. Even in a democracy or republic or whatever type of free society there will be nuts out there who will kill others and have no regard for human life. We have even had home grown terrorists here who have had no association with the extremist groups. Do we then say because there are these murders by these people from gangs and the school shooters that it is a failure on the part of our government and we are destined to fail and just give up, or do we try to work harder at solving the problems? [/ QUOTE ] This is just where im going william. Look at all the problems you just mentioned here at home, again another use for 1.2 trillion dollers and 3,000 americans. There are far more noble fights here on U.S. soil. Fights that we might win and fights that would improve the life all americans. We are failing in plenty of fights on home soil every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias I knew this would come in this Aaron and could see you would go there. With those troops here at home we still had the same issues with violence right here at home, they were insignificant in that fight here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] I knew this would come in this Aaron and could see you would go there. With those troops here at home we still had the same issues with violence right here at home, they were insignificant in that fight here. [/ QUOTE ] This is all true William, but you need to ask why no Federal money was being put into plans to improve the problems at home. If they can drum up 1.2 trillion dollars, couldn't they find a mere 10 billion to work on the many severe issues on our own soil? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias Think they have Eric. Was there not more money from federal sources sent to our law enforcement agencies under Bush? We send money out of this country all the time to aid others, should we be mongers and hold onto it all? Guess we could, I mean after all the people in most cases we are helping still hate us even after we support them. Why not just cut our funding for helping everyone else, pull ALL our troops from EVERYWHERE, and sit here at home and defend ourselves and prosper on our money we keep at home? Sounds pretty good to me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias Liberals, Please read An accounting of several advances in Iraq since the U.S.-led war in Iraq in 2003. Hardly what you would call an unworthy cause for so many innocent people. Most of this is taken from a news conference on October 9, 2003, by Paul Bremer, the Coalition Provisional Authority Administrator. The link below is much more up to date and is well worth reading, including clicking on all the links highlighted in red. October 9, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Since May 1 By Charles Mitchell The next time you hear a network news story, or read a newspaper, keep these facts in mind and ask, why isn't this being reported? Below is the list that NEVER makes the Media Moguls' "news" headlines. They just keep printing the explosions, shootings, deaths and failures. Have faith! "Since May 1..." Since May 1...the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty* Since May 1... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens. Since May 1...nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning. Since May 1... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent. Since May 1...on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the pre-war average. Since May 1...all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools. Since May 1... as of October 1, Coalition forces had rehabbed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than their target. Since May 1... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries. Since May 1...all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open. Since May 1...doctors' salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam. Since May 1...pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons. Since May 1...the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations doses to Iraq's children. Since May 1...a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals. They now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women. Since May 1...we have restored over three-quarters of pre-war telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production. Since May 1... there are 4,900 full-service connections. We expect 50,000 by January first. Since May 1...the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns. Since May 1...95 percent of all pre-war bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily. Since May 1... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses. Since May 1...the central bank is fully independent. Since May 1... Iraq has some of the world's most growth-oriented investment and banking laws. Since May 1... Iraq (has) a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years. [/ QUOTE ] A more comprehensive updated list of accomplishments in Iraq. and for you liberals out there, don't be afraid to click on all the links highlighted in red to see what has been accomplished in Iraq. The links won't bite, I promise http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/ http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/i/iraqadvance.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] Liberals, Please read An accounting of several advances in Iraq since the U.S.-led war in Iraq in 2003. Hardly what you would call an unworthy cause for so many innocent people. Most of this is taken from a news conference on October 9, 2003, by Paul Bremer, the Coalition Provisional Authority Administrator. The link below is much more up to date and is well worth reading, including clicking on all the links highlighted in red. October 9, 2003 [ QUOTE ] Since May 1 By Charles Mitchell The next time you hear a network news story, or read a newspaper, keep these facts in mind and ask, why isn't this being reported? Below is the list that NEVER makes the Media Moguls' "news" headlines. They just keep printing the explosions, shootings, deaths and failures. Have faith! "Since May 1..." Since May 1...the first battalion of the new Iraqi Army has graduated and is on active duty* Since May 1... over 60,000 Iraqis now provide security to their fellow citizens. Since May 1...nearly all of Iraq's 400 courts are functioning. Since May 1... the Iraqi judiciary is fully independent. Since May 1...on Monday, October 6 power generation hit 4,518 megawatts-exceeding the pre-war average. Since May 1...all 22 universities and 43 technical institutes and colleges are open, as are nearly all primary and secondary schools. Since May 1... as of October 1, Coalition forces had rehabbed over 1,500 schools - 500 more than their target. Since May 1... teachers earn from 12 to 25 times their former salaries. Since May 1...all 240 hospitals and more than 1200 clinics are open. Since May 1...doctors' salaries are at least eight times what they were under Saddam. Since May 1...pharmaceutical distribution has gone from essentially nothing to 700 tons in May to a current total of 12,000 tons. Since May 1...the Coalition has helped administer over 22 million vaccinations doses to Iraq's children. Since May 1...a Coalition program has cleared over 14,000 kilometers of Iraq's 27,000 kilometers of weed-choked canals. They now irrigate tens of thousands of farms. This project has created jobs for more than 100,000 Iraqi men and women. Since May 1...we have restored over three-quarters of pre-war telephone services and over two-thirds of the potable water production. Since May 1... there are 4,900 full-service connections. We expect 50,000 by January first. Since May 1...the wheels of commerce are turning. From bicycles to satellite dishes to cars and trucks, businesses are coming to life in all major cities and towns. Since May 1...95 percent of all pre-war bank customers have service and first-time customers are opening accounts daily. Since May 1... Iraqi banks are making loans to finance businesses. Since May 1...the central bank is fully independent. Since May 1... Iraq has some of the world's most growth-oriented investment and banking laws. Since May 1... Iraq (has) a single, unified currency for the first time in 15 years. [/ QUOTE ] A more comprehensive updated list of accomplishments in Iraq. and for you liberals out there, don't be afraid to click on all the links highlighted in red to see what has been accomplished in Iraq. The links won't bite, I promise http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/accomplishments/ http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/i/iraqadvance.htm [/ QUOTE ] and they find the bodies of Iraq policeman by the dozens...ranking Iraqi officials are killed in drive by shootings, car bombs, and kidnappings. bombs explode in markets, near Iraqi police stations, road checkpoints daily.... oh yeah, then there's that whole Civil War thing.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias Buckee, you're links only talk about what will happen, what is planned, or what is hoped for....that's all well and good, but I did something you can see and hold on to. The rest is just speculation. btw- why am I labeled a liberal solely because I oppose the war in Iraq? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias Yeah, so what. The US had a civil war not that long ago too, and cousin was fighting against cousin in that one too. Change doesn't happen without a high price, and peace doesn't come at any price Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muggs Posted February 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] Yeah, so what. The US had a civil war not that long ago too, and cousin was fighting against cousin in that one too. Change doesn't happen without a high price, and peace doesn't come at any price [/ QUOTE ] Oh, so now Civil War is a good thing. Sorry, didn't realize that. Man, you guys are willing to pull out any arguement aren't ya? Its OK to admit this isn't working, even if you are a "conservative." You know that, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wtnhunt Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias Dont personally think by any means whatsoever that civil war is a good thing, but Steve has a good point. Sometimes it takes what seems at the time to be the worst case scenario taking place for things to take a turn to start on the road to getting better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckee Posted February 7, 2007 Report Share Posted February 7, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias Don't twist my words. I never said civil war or any war was a good thing. I think we can all agree that no-one likes a war of any kind, but sometimes, there is a time for war, regardless of who likes it and who doesn't. The Lord always decides the outcome anyway, not necessarily might or power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbonhunter Posted February 8, 2007 Report Share Posted February 8, 2007 Re: Iran found to be supply Iraqi militias [ QUOTE ] Don't twist my words. I never said civil war or any war was a good thing. I think we can all agree that no-one likes a war of any kind, but sometimes, there is a time for war, regardless of who likes it and who doesn't. The Lord always decides the outcome anyway, not necessarily might or power. [/ QUOTE ] Are you saying this is a holy war?? i dont see where the lord comes into this, 9-11 and al-quade yes, iraq is all about the money. That is unless this is bush's way of doing the Crusade thing? I dont see this point at all. Second.(not aimed at you buckee) ITS YOUR OWN PARTY the RIGHT WING who is against this war now folks so the left right up down argument is kind of a wash. no good points just good old fashion political mud flinging, what post started this thread again i cant remember? i need that little hammer dude strut has Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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